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Complete Tome items and Wish Economy
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Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2553

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Added WBL table and Wish Economy costs summary table, Stat effects for Positive & Negative gems as suggested by Dominicius, reduced recharge times on Greater Armor effects.
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Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
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Mauver
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Joined: 31 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This makes the wish economy substantially more usable... as it was before, it was so ad-hoc that I was tempted to return to WBL at times, but this looks good.
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Red_Rob
Prince


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thanks!

I actually have all the random item generation tables done, I just can't decide whether to try to include them in this thread or to make a whole new thread for them. I think I'll have to make a new thread and just link it in the OP, they are pretty long and this is already a bit of a slog to get through.
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Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
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zugschef
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Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 748

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Red_Rob wrote:
Thanks!

I actually have all the random item generation tables done, I just can't decide whether to try to include them in this thread or to make a whole new thread for them. I think I'll have to make a new thread and just link it in the OP, they are pretty long and this is already a bit of a slog to get through.

A new thread is better, yes.
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Red_Rob
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Added a linked contents section and split off the crafting, trading and Wish Economy into its own thread with the Random tables.
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Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
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TarkisFlux
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Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Given your wish change, why the fuck are you still listing wish economy goods as having a gold piece equivalent? Equivalencies promote people treating it as fungible, even if you explicitly say not to do that.

If gold is not a valid thing that you can trade for moderate and greater items, you really should remove all gp listings from every wish economy trade good and moderate or greater item and pick a different trade medium to use instead. Since the cost of liquid pain is stupid small for a 'wish economy' trade good (and it's not really clear how much of it you can get from a creature farm), I'd suggest using astral dust pinches (dp) as your trade medium and deleting that 1000gp note on it. It already works with your wish economy WBL and most items since you use 1000gp increments, but it does cause some weirdness with scrolls (which could just have their costs massaged slightly) and souls values (though your 1 soul per item limit largely mitigates this).

Anyway, if you do that Thought Armor would cost 40 dp to craft (or trade for, or whatever), and you never hear people asking if they can just grab 40k gp worth of turnips to trade for it because there is no written equivalence for them to start with. Any economy straddling trades that do happen are one-off negotiated events that don't mean shit in general. Sometimes you can trade a moderate item for a small ransom and live out the rest of your days in comfort, and sometimes no one wants it and you trade it for a cow just to be rid of it. Your note about how people can trade a moderate item they don't need for a bunch of gold economy stuff will need to get a bit more vague, but that's a good thing in this case because fungibility is not even remotely desirable.
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Red_Rob
Prince


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Tarkisflux wrote:
Given your wish change, why the fuck are you still listing wish economy goods as having a gold piece equivalent?

Basically this is a symptom of the way this was put together. It started as just a few ways to use the Book of Gears item system in our home games, then one day I sat down and wrote out a bunch of item powers, and then things just got added in as I got round to looking at them.

So yeah, I noticed a while ago that having gp values for Wish Econ. stuff was dumb but I wasn't really sure what to use as an alternative. Your suggestion seems like a pretty good place to start, I'll go through and rework things to that effect when I get the chance.
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Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
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TarkisFlux
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I finally got around to reading the general stuff here, so there's going to be a lot of stuff here for you. Hope you enjoy design questions and bug reports...

  • Given that you're using character level for magic item caster level to determine effects, why are you not also using it as caster level to determine dispel difficulty? I don't see what's gained by using fixed dispel values, other than an extra thing to look up or remember.
  • Even though Frank suggested them, I'm not convinced that the item prices make sense. Just going by straight currency values, you can get 1 greater item for the same cost as 2 moderate items. That seems like a rather narrow gap, and like trades among those would happen earlier than desired. Doubling would fix the gap, and also set greater as high above moderate as moderate is above lesser (not that you're going to be keeping currency comparisions, I'm just saying).
  • What is up with dust pricing? Everything else follows a level^2*value progression, and those drop the square for no reason I can see. If you want offensive / AoE oils to be more expensive, just double or quadruple the oil formula cost. Aside: I happen to have a real hate-on for that spell level^2 pricing model because of relative spell costs, and would be happy to suggest alternatives with a more consistent spell level cost ratio (which matters since CL = HD in this version and all of your variability is removed). If you care anyway.
  • Spell arrows are seriously problematic by comparison with other options. Using scroll costs, they cost half as much as oils and not even half as much as dusts. So you get arrows of glitterdust and arrows of flesh to stone and whatever else for 1/3 to 1/5 of the price of the dust and just need to have a bow proficiency, which you can get via exploit for basically free. Or you just do them in sling bullet form and not worry about it, because sling proficiency is pretty universal. Something needs to give on those, and you have a lot of options.
  • It's unclear that ammunition takes up an item slot. It's mentioned in the previous section with the firing and resolving and then unbinding line, but it should be included in the magic ammunition section for clarity since they're sufficiently different from wielded weapons. Also, what happens to a spell arrow that is fired when it's not attuned?
  • I'm skipping weapon, armor, and wondrous properties, and reserve the right to complain about them later.
  • Why can single target dust effects become an AoE in the presence of strong winds (which are not difficult to generate)? You have a lot of different spell effects in there, some ranged and some touch. Giving them all no adjacent range + possible AoE doesn't seem like a good call, but giving some of them adjustments to account for that seems like a mess. So what gives there?
  • Elixir of death's complete drinking being a death effect leaves it immune to lots of things/effects. Is this intentional?
  • Elixir or power is worth (5k X 6) + (20k X 3)gp, or 90k gp, and is somewhat underpriced for a +5 inherent attribute compared to the 200k gp raw chaos. You should probably boost the elemental gem cost to 25k gp (the wish xp conversion equivalent), and maybe fix the downward scaling effectiveness as well, since that's annoying to track and already not a great deal. Yeah, no one actually pays for wishes, but it's still a useful point of comparison until the xp cost gets changed.
  • Elixir of youth providing a +2 inherent bonus for less than the conversion cost of a wish is similarly weird, but not actually problematic.
  • Scrolls.... by your gods why did you give them a 10 minute cast time? Are you trying to promote fucking spell sling stones? If you want to limit castings withing a period of time, just do that directly (and then apply it to dust and ammunition and whatever else you want). You have lots of options here, including your [harmless] spell level setup (for example, using a consumable counts against that pool for 1 minute or it's duration, whichever is greater).
  • The tome of forbidden lore's super secret secret can be learned by almost anyone with 1 month of downtime (because iterative probability and the poor downside). But no other greater item grants a 1/day level 9 spell + other bonuses, so it's a stupid special power that should be removed.
  • Consumables granting permanent power in general (i.e. elixirs, tomes) is a hard sell. Tomes are particularly bad, since multiple users can benefit from the same tome. I get the intent and I get that access will be restricted by feat, but I'm not sure it's worth doing.
  • Staffs/Wand costs bug me. Is there a reason you didn't go with a charge cost by spell level setup, rather than the current thing?
  • Candle of truth specfies a DC, in violation of your previous DC formula. Is it intended that the candle can un-attune if you put it down?
  • Chime of interruption remains a joke because of DC vs. skill scaling. Intentional?
  • Bag of holding would like a lesser and greater version.
  • Why an 8 hour recharge on the iron bands, since they've basically an escapable hold monster?

    I may well have more later, but that seems like a good start before I move on to the next thread.
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    Fectin: "Ant, what is best in life?"
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    Last edited by TarkisFlux on Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Red_Rob
    Prince


    Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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    PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Thanks for the feedback. It's late so I can't respond to everything, but there's plenty to think about here...
    TarkisFlux wrote:
  • Given that you're using character level for magic item caster level to determine effects, why are you not also using it as caster level to determine dispel difficulty? I don't see what's gained by using fixed dispel values, other than an extra thing to look up or remember.

  • Good point. I don't think I was as committed to Character level = caster level when I added that.
    Quote:
  • Even though Frank suggested them, I'm not convinced that the item prices make sense. Just going by straight currency values, you can get 1 greater item for the same cost as 2 moderate items. That seems like a rather narrow gap, and like trades among those would happen earlier than desired. Doubling would fix the gap, and also set greater as high above moderate as moderate is above lesser (not that you're going to be keeping currency comparisions, I'm just saying).

  • I had noticed it was a little too easy to jump to Greater items. Plus the costs being so low meant the higher value Wish Economy goods were a little unnecessary. I'll play around with the pricing and see what works when I fully split off the Wish Economy currency methinks.
    Quote:
  • What is up with dust pricing? Everything else follows a level^2*value progression, and those drop the square for no reason I can see. If you want offensive / AoE oils to be more expensive, just double or quadruple the oil formula cost. Aside: I happen to have a real hate-on for that spell level^2 pricing model because of relative spell costs, and would be happy to suggest alternatives with a more consistent spell level cost ratio (which matters since CL = HD in this version and all of your variability is removed). If you care anyway.
  • Spell arrows are seriously problematic by comparison with other options. Using scroll costs, they cost half as much as oils and not even half as much as dusts. So you get arrows of glitterdust and arrows of flesh to stone and whatever else for 1/3 to 1/5 of the price of the dust and just need to have a bow proficiency, which you can get via exploit for basically free. Or you just do them in sling bullet form and not worry about it, because sling proficiency is pretty universal. Something needs to give on those, and you have a lot of options.
  • It's unclear that ammunition takes up an item slot. It's mentioned in the previous section with the firing and resolving and then unbinding line, but it should be included in the magic ammunition section for clarity since they're sufficiently different from wielded weapons. Also, what happens to a spell arrow that is fired when it's not attuned?
    ...
  • Why can single target dust effects become an AoE in the presence of strong winds (which are not difficult to generate)? You have a lot of different spell effects in there, some ranged and some touch. Giving them all no adjacent range + possible AoE doesn't seem like a good call, but giving some of them adjustments to account for that seems like a mess. So what gives there?
  • Elixir of death's complete drinking being a death effect leaves it immune to lots of things/effects. Is this intentional?
  • Elixir or power is worth (5k X 6) + (20k X 3)gp, or 90k gp, and is somewhat underpriced for a +5 inherent attribute compared to the 200k gp raw chaos. You should probably boost the elemental gem cost to 25k gp (the wish xp conversion equivalent), and maybe fix the downward scaling effectiveness as well, since that's annoying to track and already not a great deal. Yeah, no one actually pays for wishes, but it's still a useful point of comparison until the xp cost gets changed.
  • Elixir of youth providing a +2 inherent bonus for less than the conversion cost of a wish is similarly weird, but not actually problematic.
  • Scrolls.... by your gods why did you give them a 10 minute cast time? Are you trying to promote fucking spell sling stones? If you want to limit castings withing a period of time, just do that directly (and then apply it to dust and ammunition and whatever else you want). You have lots of options here, including your [harmless] spell level setup (for example, using a consumable counts against that pool for 1 minute or it's duration, whichever is greater).
  • The tome of forbidden lore's super secret secret can be learned by almost anyone with 1 month of downtime (because iterative probability and the poor downside). But no other greater item grants a 1/day level 9 spell + other bonuses, so it's a stupid special power that should be removed.
  • Consumables granting permanent power in general (i.e. elixirs, tomes) is a hard sell. Tomes are particularly bad, since multiple users can benefit from the same tome. I get the intent and I get that access will be restricted by feat, but I'm not sure it's worth doing.

  • Okay, you've convinced me consumables are still problematic. There's too much to chew on at the moment, but I think I derped hardest on Spell arrows. Scroll casting time is one minute, not ten, for what that's worth. Basically I was thinking about Frank's comment that any time you can defeat an encounter using consumables that cost less than that encounter's treasure parcel, you are encouraged to Nova your way through it, but I'll go into that once I get my head around things a little more.
    Quote:
  • Staffs/Wand costs bug me. Is there a reason you didn't go with a charge cost by spell level setup, rather than the current thing?

  • Once I committed to fixed item price by item level, I hoped the higher charge cost on higher level spells and the Staff multi-spell charges reduction would even things out. I'm not sure it's enough.
    Quote:
  • Bag of holding would like a lesser and greater version.

  • I skipped the other utility item queries, although I'll edit them as needed, but I thought I'd say something about the Bag of Holding. There was some discussion a while back about the Bag of Holding removing a lot of challenges from the game, invalidating a number of logistical abilities and generally short circuiting a lot of problem solving. Because I enjoy a certain amount of that I dropped the "Holding" items to Medium. For those people who hate having to track that stuff I can see the argument they should be able to get one as early as possible. Really it comes down to play style somewhat and I'm not sure how to accomodate both.
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    Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

    "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
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    TarkisFlux
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    PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Well, here's some unrequested thoughts on the consumable matter. Hope they help.

    Surgo's partial solution to the consumable problem was to just limit the number of potions/oils you could benefit from to CR/2 at a time. That's quite a bit more permissive than you seem to want, but a straight limit of them might work. For example:

    "Characters have 8 item slots, plus an additional 2 consumable slots. When a consumable item is used, it takes up an available consumable slots. If none are available, it may use an available permanent item slot instead. Normally the consumable item slot is provided by the creature that uses the item, but if a consumable with a [Harmless] effect is used on another creature they must provide the slot instead. If no slots are available, the consumable does not function and may be expended.

    Consumables do not need to be attuned to a character before they are used, but once they are used they remain attuned to the slot for the duration of the effect or 5 minutes, whichever is longer. If a consumable effect is dispelled after it has been active for 5 or more minutes, the slot is immediately un-attuned."

    That could probably be worded better, but the effect would be to limit people to two consumables every 5 minutes (at best) unless they wanted to sacrifice permanent item slots.

    I'd probably cut your [Harmless] limit in conjunction with this sort of setup. It's harder to track and prevents people from using permanent item slots to hold consumable buffs (and I don't know why you'd want to do that). Yeah, that opens up stacking spellcasting buffs on people, but the consumable delay here acts as a strong incentive to prepare utility effects in lower level slots instead of buffs I think, and so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
    Note: If the [Harmless] thing stays, you may want to include a line about accounting for Mass spells. Paying more because someone cast mass bull's strength instead of bull's strength (or whatever) doesn't seem very reasonable.

    It also removes the need to charge differently for different types of single use consumables because they all have different limitations. Potions, oils, and dusts are just single target, touch range effects, and limited or inferior compared to scrolls of the same spell effect (there's no reason to retain the legacy level 3 spell limit on potions as far as I can tell either). Spell ammunition requires a ranged touch attack to target individuals or squares and could be limited by the worse of weapon range or spell range, which also makes them inferior compared to scrolls of the same spell effect. Scrolls could just take a full-round action to cast. That gives the different item types their own niches, so you maybe care about different item types in different situations.

    For actual costs, you could do the following (thanks Fibonacci):
  • Level 0 Consumable: 300gp
  • Level 1 Consumable: 500gp
  • Level 2 Consumable: 800gp
  • Level 3 Consumable: 1300gp
  • Level 4 Consumable: 2dp
  • Level 5 Consumable: 3dp
  • Level 6 Consumable: 5dp
  • Level 7 Consumable: 8dp
  • Level 8 Consumable: 13dp
  • Level 9 Consumable: 21dp
    It's a roughly 2/3 increase in cost per increase in level, which is much more consistent than the old trash. And trading a moderate item for a single use of a level 8 spell seems pretty in line IMO

    Wands and staves are included in the consumable section historically and in your writeup, but aren't actually anymore because they recharge daily now (which also sets up weird comparisons with the bonus providing Spell Effect wondrous items).

    You could push them back into the consumable framework if you wanted though, assigning a price to them based on the number of charges of the maximum level spell they contain. Could probably develop a recharge mechanic based along the same lines. If you did and they required an actual item slot and attunement, they could get a discount on per charge rates from the above and a different rate of fire, or they could just be more convenient scrolls and use the consumable slot and the above rates. I think the former is a slightly better fit with Tome feel, but it may be problematic in play.

    [Edit: words and stuff]
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    Last edited by TarkisFlux on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Draculmaulkee
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    PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Do you think your magic item reworks will impact the CR's of monsters that don't typically utilize magic items?
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    Red_Rob
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    PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    I'm not sure what you mean - as they don't use them their effectiveness won't be altered, so their CR shouldn't change. Are you asking if beefing up the abilities of the characters will make the monsters easier and therefore effectively lower their CR's? Because in that case I would probably say not too much. Magic items mainly buff the warrior classes, and I've tried to ensure that none of my item powers provide abilities you couldn't get elsewhere at a similar level if you really tried, so nothing should break the game.

    I really need to sit down and go through TarkisFlux's suggestions, but that is going to take a good session and I've been diving into Dominions 4 after writing up all the tables in the other thread. I'll try to get a revision done in a week or two, but consumables are going to take some thinking about.
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    Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

    "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
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    Sigil
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    How many spell arrows can you attuned as one slot, 50? Or is it similar to a buff and you just have to have an unused magic item slot?
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    TarkisFlux
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    As they're basically offensive spell scrolls in arrow form, using the more clear scroll writeup is probably your best bet (it also squares with Red Rob's consumable nova concerns). So you'd just need an empty item slot, and then have to wait 1d4 minutes for it to clear up if you were out of slots and wanted to fire another arrow.
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    Red_Rob
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    In the actual writeup I had Spell Arrows as a type of magic weapon - they are attuned only whilst being used, so you have to have a slot free to use them but that slot empties again as soon as they are fired. However, Tarkis is right that this is far too permissive - his suggestion about using the scroll rules gives less possibility for abuse and is along the lines I was thinking for when I get round to revising this.
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    Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

    "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
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    Sigil
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Considering that a spell arrow takes a standard action to fire, it would probably be acceptable to have the slot immediately empty after firing for instantaneous efffects. For effects with a duration, the slot should remain occupied until the effect ends. That way you can still have epic archers with golf-bags full of arrows.

    Spell Imbued: You have spell imbued armor as a minor property. Is there a reason why there aren't lesser, moderate, and greater versions for higher level spells? I feel this could go a very long way to having a greater variety in armors for a very small word count. For that matter, why aren't there spell imbued weapons? Moderate could be 3rd, 4th, or 5th level spells 1/day or as lesser 3/day. Major could be 6th or 7th 1/day, as moderate 3/day, or as lesser at-will/constant.

    Also, looking up a few posts, you mentioned working on a revision back in November. Is this still something you're doing? If it's okay with you, I want to start working on formatting this system for inclusion in the Tome pdf. If a new revision is due soon (even a few months) I'll just lay the groundwork for an item chapter and then work on something else for a while.
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    TarkisFlux
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    PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Sigil wrote:
    Considering that a spell arrow takes a standard action to fire, it would probably be acceptable to have the slot immediately empty after firing for instantaneous efffects. For effects with a duration, the slot should remain occupied until the effect ends. That way you can still have epic archers with golf-bags full of arrows.

    They still get golfbags, but they don't spend one a round. One of Red Rob's specific concerns was people who spend less novaing with consumables than the encounter was supposed to generate in loots. And since your argument extends to potions and scrolls and every other type of consumable, it's weird to make "has ranged weapon proficiency" a way to skip out on consumable limits in a fight (though some of that is dependent on consumable pricing). That's before we even get to me being comfortable preferencing death and instant spells over DoTs and debuffs and temp walls though, which doesn't seem to be something we'd particularly want.

    In short, I'm not for it.
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    Red_Rob
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    PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Sigil wrote:
    Spell Imbued: You have spell imbued armor as a minor property. Is there a reason why there aren't lesser, moderate, and greater versions for higher level spells? I feel this could go a very long way to having a greater variety in armors for a very small word count.

    There are (secretly!). When I wrote up the random item tables I added Medium and Greater versions of Spell Imbued armors, you can see them Here. Basically I realised it should work the same way as the Wondrous Item abilities, I just haven't gone and added them to the Armor writeup yet.

    Quote:
    For that matter, why aren't there spell imbued weapons?

    Seems a bit redundant when Wondrous items already do that. Plus weapon abilities tend to work differently to other item powers, and a lot of spell effects would seem a little weird coming out of a weapon.

    Quote:
    Also, looking up a few posts, you mentioned working on a revision back in November. Is this still something you're doing?

    It's something I'm still planning to do, yeah. Every time the thread gets bumped it reminds me to get this done Smile.

    Our D&D Campaign was on hiatus over Christmas and I've been in some large Dominions games, but we'll be starting up again soon so I should be back in a D&D frame of mind. Odds are it will get done pretty soon.
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    Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

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    Surgo
    Duke


    Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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    PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    I'm in the process of putting this up on the wiki to replace old tome magic item rules. One thing that struck me is that Terror weapons seem a bit strong due to fear-stacking rules, so you can make someone Panicked for an entire hour.

    Maybe 3-5 rounds makes more sense?

    Also, Banishing weapons have a copy/paste error.

    Lifelight doesn't have a duration specified.
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    Last edited by Surgo on Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Red_Rob
    Prince


    Joined: 17 Jul 2009
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    PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Good catch on the Terror weapon duration being off - although as the target has to survive two rounds of attacks for this to matter it shouldn't come up that often. 3 Rounds seems more reasonable

    It's late here so I'll fix these tomorrow. I also want to post my current thoughts on some possible revisions then too.
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    Simplified Tome Armor. Tome item system and expanded Wish Economy rules.

    "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress."
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    Surgo
    Duke


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    PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    If you do revise, could you post a reply in diff format? (Either actual diff format, or just a changelog.) That'll help me transfer the revisions onto the wiki.
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    Wiseman
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    PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    which wiki? is it already on there?
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    Surgo
    Duke


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    PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    [url=http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Tome_Magic_Items_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)]I've been uploading it here[/url]. Not sure what you mean by "which wiki".
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    TarkisFlux
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    PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    Wiseman wrote:
    which wiki?

    There is only one general purpose homebrew dnd wiki worth mentioning or linking to, unless you don't like things like 'authorial control', 'article consistency', or 'explicit balance declarations' I guess. It is the one linked in our sigs.

    Also, prettier link.
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    Last edited by TarkisFlux on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Wiseman
    Duke


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    PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

    ah, thanks. Because there are at least 3 dungeons and dragons wiki's that I'm aware of.
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