D[isney] & Dragons

Wrathzog · Post by **Wrathzog** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:07 pm

I recommend reading up on Fables for assistance on this topic. I thought that the whole crossover thing was handled well.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:35 pm

virgil wrote:I noticed that TV Tropes has something related to all this, Friends & the High Council

Yeah, it's part of what got me thinking about this. I haven't directly referenced it yet because I haven't actually read it yet.

Conceivably one could, and perhaps should stick to only putting together a couple of adventurer groupings, something like ancient heros and modern heroes. Because I do get what you're saying, and there is no fucking reason to have 101 Dalmatians London right next to Brave Scotland, or even across the sea from Incredibles New York. Honestly, there's no reason to have 101 Dalmatians London in there at all. One of the things that is workable from KH is the fact that there was no 101 Dalmatians world, just puppies as collectable items.

Whatever · Post by **Whatever** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:39 pm

Any setting that posits Zeus as the greatest force for good is unworkable on first principles.

John Magnum · Post by **John Magnum** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:47 pm

I can see how collectible puppies makes sense for KH. It ticks TWO checkboxes on the video game design sheet: The need to include 101 Dalmations in SOME capacity, and the need to include random collectible doodads. Is that all you're saying? If not: How in the flying fuck does that make any sense for a P&P setting?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:52 pm

Yeah, that's all I'm saying.

Parthenon · Post by **Parthenon** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:01 pm

Fables was awesome, but the lessons taken from it can't really be applied to Disney characters.

Mostly because Disney characters are specific with little to no room for interpretation, whereas Fables used characters from the original fairy tales which have huge room for interpretation, most of which are from a similar background. And Willingham also deliberately played around with the power levels, increasing the abilities of several of them so they can interact on the same level.

This isn't a criticism of Fables- I loved things like having the Big Bad Wolf be the son of the North Wind, and I really loved the expansion of some ideas like

Gepetto the crafter of Pinocchio creating lots more golems and ending up as the evil Emperor who caused the Fables to evacuate to Earth

But when trying to make a pan-Disney universe you can't decide that the prince from the Disney version of Sleeping Beauty is the same prince from the Disney Snow White is the same prince as Disney's Cinderella.
EDIT: Actually, you sort of can have them all be the same prince- I seem to remember them looking very different, but GIS says they all have brown hair in a similar style, with roughly the same face. Damn, that sort of destroys my point there.

PoliteNewb · Post by **PoliteNewb** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:04 pm

Parthenon wrote: But when trying to make a pan-Disney universe you can't decide that the prince from the Disney version of Sleeping Beauty is the same prince from the Disney Snow White is the same prince as Disney's Cinderella.
EDIT: Actually, you sort of can have them all be the same prince- I seem to remember them looking very different, but GIS says they all have brown hair in a similar style, with roughly the same face. Damn, that sort of destroys my point there.

No.

This guy is not the same as this guy, and neither of them is this guy.

I don't know about you, but those guys all look different to me.
Although 2 of them do seem to enjoy singing in forests. *shrug*

Wrathzog · Post by **Wrathzog** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:13 pm

I'll admit that Fables has a huge advantage in being explicitly meta with its setting but considering that a number of the characters between universes are Shared, it may work well for reference.

Also, Prince Charming enjoys switching up his wardrobe and hairstyle between conquests. As a true PUA, he understands the need to keep things fresh.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:57 pm

Yeah, honestly the three (and Prince Adam from BatB) all look fairly similar. Even with three happening in the same period, that period covers several hundred years, and so you could say that all four princes are a single immortal guy. I would posit that Sleeping Beauty happens first chronologically, with Prince Charming falling love with Aurora, and rescuing her. One could say that something in the fight with Maleficent made him immortal, unbeknownst to him. He then watched his wife die while he stayed young. He deals comparatively well with it, merely deciding that his next wife should be chosen by fate not political arrangement and rescue, and marries Cinderella when the gods guide him to a lowly scullery maid. She also dies while he stays young and beautiful. This he can't take. He retreats into his castle, letting his kingdom get by on it's own as he becomes, well, a dick. A beautiful witch, disguised as a traveler, asks him for help. Fearing that it will lead to watching another wife grow old, curse him for his youth, and die, he refuses. Being a recluse for the last ten or twenty years, surrounded only by his servants, whom he sees more as tools than people, he is incapable of politely declining and so the equally arrogant, but more powerful, witch curses him. When Belle comes along, she teaches him, not just how to be human, but how to love again. Eventually she dies as well, but the Prince remembers her lesson, taking it to heart. A couple hundred years later, he finds another beautiful young woman enchanted to lie in a death like sleep. Believing that perhaps his first love has come back in some way, he re-enacts the old scenario, fighting an evil witch, and awakening a girl with a kiss.

Nothing says what happens to them after the end of Snow White.

ETortoise · Post by **ETortoise** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:11 am

Cinderella's Prince's formal wear puts him as the most modern. His outfit is Nineteenth or even Twentieth Century.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:13 am

If you're going by that, Sleeping Beauty is the most modern, because of her dress.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:55 am

Uhhh... you still haven't named even one setting that can't handle a Maleficent incursion.

I have named three. Come back after you've read my posts.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:How about: Mad Madame Mim gets an army on loan from Clairebelle the Cow to help take over the Camelot. As part of this plot, they need Mary Poppins Umbrella to use as a magical MacGuffin to help large armies cross worlds, so they head there and steal that, and probably abduct Pinocchio in the process. In order to get there in the first place, they need a ship with a longer range than Mad Madame Mim's magic, so they head to the spacedock of Emperor Zerg to steal Zerg's ship and magic it up into being usable for cosmological travel, drawing the attention of Darkwing Duck, who calls in his contacts Gizmoduck and Aladdin, who he had previously worked with during a team-up between Long John Silver, Captain Hook, and Oogie Boogie to capture Sally in exchange for a cache of laser weapons to help take over Star Command/burn down Neverland and find Sandy Claws. Merlin, who has encountered Mad Madame Mim before due to a team-up between her and Jafar not long ago, tracks her down to Camelot to go do his hero thing. Darkwing Duck pressures Bonkers into contacting Gadget Hackwrench, who has gained alchemical powers when the three adopted nephews of Scrooge McDuck mucked about with Professor Nimnul's potions during an earlier team-up between Professor Nimnul and Mad Madame Mim, and Gadget Hackwrench is eventually persuaded to join the team as well.

Clairebelle the Cow has no army to offer but Maleficent does, there's no particular reason Pinocchio would be hanging out with Mary Poppins in the first place and no reason that his kidnapping would provide impetus for her to join the adventure anyway but Beast totally will join an adventure if Belle is jeopardized, there's no reason Darkwing Duck would care about what's going on with Zerg's ship but Cobra Bubbles cares about Gantu getting extra-dimensional backup, Darkwing Duck is not a shady CIA guy who would plausibly be establishing a web of contacts to set up a response team to cosmological threats that come bumping around his neck of the woods but Cobra Bubbles is, there's no reason Gizmoduck and Aladdin would've met up with anyone while fighting Long John Silver, Captain Hook, or Oogie Boogie because none of those three villains have anything to do with either of them and anyways Darkwing Duck doesn't need an excuse to know who Gizmoduck is because they already know each other but Mulan and Robin Hood have obvious motivations for opposing a team-up between their own villains and Gantu thus giving them a reason to know Cobra Bubbles in the first place, Merlin doesn't need any crossovers to explain why he's encountered Mad Madame Mim before and has no commitment to being a hero but Hercules totally does, Bonkers isn't even on the team or involved in the plot so why should he care what Darkwing says whereas Aurora has built-in reason to care about the mess Maleficent is making because the allies she's making now will come back to bite her later, and etc. etc.

Seriously, this is a new level of stupid even for your absurd contrivances, Lago. Hercules actually can have a motivation of "is aware of the problem so he decides to help out" because his character revolves around doing that, but Beast needs to have either the rose, Belle, or both threatened to get him involved, so the plot is set up to make that happen. Cobra Bubbles acts as facillitator between half the group because that's a role that makes perfect sense for a CIA spook, so the plot is set up to get him involved so that he can call in old friends who probably owe him a favor. If I just wanted a random crazy word-salad plot I could've just posted the picture without further explanation. The plot I actually constructed is 90% justifications for why the characters involved would actually care about the problem at hand, and the usual answer is because of team-ups between villains.

Now can you spot the contradictory assumption of Simba being able to get a gummi ship, versus gummi ships being rare enough that Maleficent can't transport an army that way?

I considered writing in something about this in the post as I was writing it. But then I figured "eh, this sentence is already kind of a run-on and surely my readers are intelligent enough to figure out the difference between ships being common enough to transport hundreds or thousands vs. only being common enough to transport a few dozen at any given time."

Practically everything else is just babbling. Yes, if we assume that Hades has the power to annihilate the entire setting than any crossovers ever become unworkable and you have to wonder why he hasn't already taken over the world with an army of vengeful ghosts. Maybe it's more plausible to assume he can't just do that? It's not like we ever see him send a single ghost outside of the actual Underworld even in the games I'm very loosely using as a basis for a cosmology. And why do we even care if Barbossa could be a nuisance to other settings?

The thing that you laud about the KH universe is that the planar boundaries means that Maleficent can't just go wreck up 101 Dalmatians' London.

Uh. No. It's a good thing that Maleficent can show up in London. That makes crossovers a thing that can actually happen. The benefit to limited planar travel is that Maleficent can make a mess in London but she can't permanently remove it as a recognizable setting (which she couldn't anyway, because again, British army, but whatever, same principle holds for the settings for Tangled and etc.).

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:12 am

Chamomile wrote: I have named three. Come back after you've read my posts.

Wait, were Snow White, Cinderella, and Tangled supposed to be examples of settings that couldn't handle Maleficent's imps? That's so stupid that it doesn't even warrant a response. Cinderella and Snow White have very little fighting in the actual movies, but they totally do have kingdoms full of people who have swords and shit. Tangled has actual armies and actual police forces. "A bunch of imps" might be a social problem, but much less so than the giant den full of ruffians and thieves that society is already apparently handling just fine.

I thought you just hadn't actually engaged with the question. If that was your actual trump card, you have lost this hand outright.

-Username17

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:20 am

Damn you Cham for having to go back to the first fucking page of this derailment.

Chamomile wrote:You'll probably want to prevent too much bleed through between things, just because once Maleficent turns up in the 101 Dalmations corner of reality, changes will be radical enough as to render plots, settings, and very soon, characters, as unrecognizable.

She totally can, with or without planar barriers.

With the sheer volume of different universes kicking around, finding out how they would interact with one another to the point where a stable equilibrium is created would be an absurdly daunting effort. Having a barrier between realities which only main characters are allowed to cross, and only recently at that, is a feature, not a bug.

Again, I've pointed out three separate Disney villains who don't give a fuck about planar barriers, all of which would be extremely disruptive for worlds such as 101 Dalmatians London, or even Up.

The important things to take away from Kingdom Hearts is:

1) Maleficent is a super villain leading a coalition of Disney villains for WORLD DOMINATION using an army of minions made of dark magic and negative emotion she only partially controls.

Doable with out gummi ships and keyblades.

2) There is a border between Disney worlds that prevents the settings from being altered to the point of being unrecognizable. The border is traversible, but the governing body has forbidden traversing it. Now that Maleficent has opened up all the pathways and is going around conquering/destroying worlds on top of it, travel is easy enough to permit main characters to go back and forth between worlds having crazy adventures, but still too difficult to prevent all settings being unrecognizably altered by the time the game begins.

Except, again, Maleficent can totally traverse the barriers any time she wants, as can Chernabog and probably Hades, and possibly anyone working for the Friends On The Other Side. Meanwhile, there is no reason to believe that Simba would have any fucking clue what to do with a gummi ship, or have any access to one. The involvement of Simba, and similar characters, is entirely dependent upon Stitch saying "Hey, I heard about this awesome lion who is probably nowhere near as capable as I am, let's go pick him up so he can be cannon fodder"

3) Mickey and associates are charged with defending the cosmos. Lately they are not very good at this.

This I'm ok with, as swinging a keyblade in Big Damn Heroes moments is all Mickey's ever really done that's awesome, but, save for the Keyblade part, it doesn't require KH. Mickey and Co. could just as easily be knights and wizards who wield totally normal swords and magic staves.

4) Stuff about gummi ships specifically being used to travel between worlds is optional, but unless you have some other idea as to how to get between the world of Snow White and Kim Possible, I don't see any reason not to.

Magic. Because gummi ships are fucking stupid and I only ever interacted with that minigame because it was necessary.

5) Places like Hollow Bastion and Traverse Town have their backstory gutted as a result of the de-Squareification of the universe. Hollow Bastion wasn't once the home of Final Fantasy characters and a dude who ran metaphysical experiments that resulted in the creation of the Heartless and probably a bunch of other stuff from the games I haven't played. If it exists at all, it's just Maleficent's house.

Basically Traverse Town becomes Toon Town, and, yeah Hollow Bastion is Maleficent's castle. Or possible Maleficent/Hades' fuck pad.

EDIT: Also, you wouldn't want to call this "the Kingdom Hearts RPG." People might seriously not notice it's Kingdom Hearts after you finish removing all the main characters and unique settings and take 2/3s of the plot with them. The important thing here is the KH, especially the very first game, is a pretty decent example of how to make this work.

I think I missed this edit the first time around, and so I apologize. Boiling KH down to "the worlds are separate alternate material worlds" actually is a lot more feasible, because it does away with the entire mess that is the KH setting. Even then, I would really rather not make each movie a separate world, but rather have similar movies share worlds. And you can literally do it by Time Period and Power Level. And there literally is a world which is shared by the low powered talking animal movies. This may or may not include things like Atlantis and Princess and the Frog. It probably includes Up, and might include Monsters Inc. Probably includes Winnie the Pooh and Toy Story.

And I could even see a reason for that world not becoming the April O'neil of the Disney Multiverse (It's 6:00pm Tuesday, time to go save Normie-ville), in that it's literally not important enough. You might get villains wrecking up the place for a cheap laugh, or maybe Hamsterveile wants the Atlantian Magitech, and thus can do low power games there that are things other than Watership Down.

JigokuBosatsu · Post by **JigokuBosatsu** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:19 pm

This is one of the most original threads I've seen in a long time, and I'm loving it. A few points of reply in no particular order.

Belle- someone mentioned she would not be a great fit in a whodunit style adventure. You know where she would be a good fit? CALL OF CTHULHU

identical Disney princes- This is an idea I hint at a bit in something I'm working on. My "Pinocchio" for a book of twisted fairytales (coming out in September) has a protagonist who reminisces about his service in a "diplomatic corps" where he was the poor kid amongst a bunch of spoiled princes/wealthy scions. The only one mentioned by name is Prince Charming, because he is the protagonist of another story I set in the same universe, but I had intended all the others to be various almost-interchangeable Disney princes. So, it's an idea worth playing with, at least. (incidentally, these stories are set in a world roughly equivalent to the one displayed in Bernard Sleigh's "Ancient Mappe of Fairyland" as seen here, which is itself an epic crossover.)

The Venture Brothers- a great model for crossover of varying power levels within the same general timeframe.

Seerow · Post by **Seerow** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:58 pm

I'm curious, how many of you have actually been to Disney and seen the show Fantasmic?

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:24 am

FrankTrollman wrote: Name one Disney setting that is obviated by having a single castle full of extremely shitty mooks. Just one.

The Lion King. A castle full of shitty mooks is still awesome in unsullied Africa that seems to lack any human presence or technology.

Lago PARANOIA wrote: Even if young Simba did have a chance in hell of making a difference in the ebb and flow of the adventures of Tron, Jack Skellington, or Bonkers what exactly is his impetus for doing so?

Because he's the Prince of Denmark Africa and Princes of Denmark Africa do that kind of shit.

Great, now I have an urge to do a Hamlets setting where all the different incarnations of Hamlet hang out together doing awesome stuff and making angsty soliloquies about it, and possibly driving their girlfriends to suicide in the process.

You could have Kenneth Branagh Hamlet, Jax Teller from Sons of Anarchy, and Simba ridding Harleys together and killing Mexican bikers. Possibly Dinobot, too, he quoted Hamlet often enough.

Anyway, the backstories are irreconcilable, so I recommend don't reconcile them. Do a massively multiplayer thing. Don't use the exact Kingdom Hearts setup, though. It's been done. Don't go Rifts, either.

Instead, they're all separate worlds until The Event happens. The nature of The Event is a big mystery and a driving part of the overall plot that can get the disparate heroes working together.

The end result, is that all of the different worlds landmasses (and many oceans) all end up together on one giant globe (which still has 1 g gravity for some reason).

Thus you have multiple versions of the modern(ish) real(ish) world at multiple points in their development, some with hidden talking animal societies and some with hidden magic and some with not-hidden superheroes all sitting on the same globe along with historical fantasy nations and at least one totally untamed pre-human Africa and a version of Crusades-era Earth populated entirely by anthromorphic talking animals and a modern Earth with both anthropomorphic talking animals and humans and all that. And there's also Bald Mountain.

Most of the metaplot concerns the international chaos created by The Event, which has, among other things, put a pre-WWII Stalinist USSR on the same planet with a post-collapse Russia and several nuclear-armed Cold-War Russias and Americas. Mulan's Imperial China with actual dragons is right beside Mao's Communist China which is just beginning the Great Leap Forward. And that's before you get into the talking animals. Usia and Thembaria and whatever the hell the name of Talespin Nazi Germany is if you go that route (you said that you just wantd to include the "canon" movies, which wouldn't include the animated series, though it should because they're awesome) are about to have anthromorphic talking animal World War II .

In other words, a giant geopolitical clusterfuck. Every major character has a reason to get involved. Simba is joining up with the PCs because the 1930s British Empire is literally ripping apart the Pridelands with their mining equipment, slashing and burning, and spraying DDT everywhere the fight mosquioes, and he needs help.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:45 am

hyzmarca wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote: Name one Disney setting that is obviated by having a single castle full of extremely shitty mooks. Just one.
The Lion King. A castle full of shitty mooks is still awesome in unsullied Africa that seems to lack any human presence or technology.

Doesn't this version of unsullied Africa have super-cunning ghost-channeling kung fu monkey shamans controlling the politics of the microstates? And organized talking predators who can use tactics and actually boss around the other animals?

There's an actual intelligence network of moles that serve the aristocrats for what seems to be no greater reason than a recognition of their inherent right to rule. Not only is every aristocrat a killing machine, but they don't seem to have to deal with any real civil unrest from the have-nots unless one of them actively foments it.

I don't think a bunch of shadow orcs would be all that great in this setting. Maybe if you dropped the castle itself down in the middle of the country you'd have an edge, but the tiny men themselves wouldn't be much good outside it. They'd be trivialized the moment a lion decided to stampede >9000 antelope at the invading army.

EDIT:

hyzmarca wrote:In other words, a giant geopolitical clusterfuck. Every major character has a reason to get involved. Simba is joining up with the PCs because the 1930s British Empire is literally ripping apart the Pridelands with their mining equipment, slashing and burning, and spraying DDT everywhere the fight mosquioes, and he needs help.

I could definitely see this, though.

K · Post by K » Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:50 am

Nothing to add, really, but this is neat.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:17 pm

Chamomile wrote:Clairebelle the Cow has no army to offer but Maleficent does,

Yes, she does.

Chamomile wrote:there's no reason Darkwing Duck would care about what's going on with Zerg's ship

Yes, he would. In fact, that particular episode is almost identical to the Lilo and Stitch plot.

Darkwing Duck is not a shady CIA guy

Yes, he is.

who would plausibly be establishing a web of contacts to set up a response team to cosmological threats that come bumping around his neck of the woods but Cobra Bubbles/

But that's exactly the kind of thing he's already done.

But whatever. The point of this sperg-fu is not to win nerd cred points but to show that you don't actually have a plot. What you have is fistful of apophenia and a diaper full of faux awesome. You might as well write a story about how Po or Buzz or Quail-Man fight a chain of bad guys to the final showdown in Maleficent's castle. The only way you can even make that mildly engaging is by distracting people with flashy Dark and Edgy and Actiony glitz, which is apparently what happened since the impetus for your story was a piece of fanart.

Just look at your rebuttal you made yourself. You don't have the makings of a game. You have the makings of a specific story or a module. I find it particularly stupid because like I pointed out it has nothing to do with the character development of individual villains or heroes; you're just picking and choosing backstory elements that you like to shill your nostalgia-with-hipster-twist movie trailer while discarding everything else.

Of course, that just makes it a bad story on top of everything else. But the nail that seals the coffin is that you said yourself that plot would only work with a certain set of characters. And not in a 'this person has a complex backstory or personality that can't be easily reproduced by others but uniquely drives the plot' way, but in a 'does this person have an army?' or 'does this person have a spaceship?' way. For something so shallow, that is absolutely terrible for a TTRPG.

When you don't have a strong setting to work off of, your crossover setting has to rely on the individual characterization. But Disney characters aren't sketched very strongly. Not enough to throw it out altogether like a secondary DC character, but strongly enough that you can't mix and match characters for your various stupid plots and have it all work out. If you want Disney characters to do a certain thing, there has to be a metaplot to force characters to interact a certain way. Which you will very strongly want to do, because Woody, Tron, Simba, and Tully have no reason to interact with each other otherwise. Even with that idiotic 'portals connect all of the worlds! That makes the crossover compatible nao! WARGH!' handwave. And honestly, if you're doing a Disneyverse crossover, for every possible team-up + villain pairing you can propose that practically does its own work in providing motivation you'll have ten more which require a bit more fucking thought than your word salad story.

Kingdom Hearts' and House of Mouse's driving metaplots were ridiculously shallow and I understand if you don't want to use them, but it at least gave a reason why Hercules and Jack Sparrow would team up to do things other than authorial railroading. You need to have one. If that stupid fanart plot was an example of how crossovers would work in your proposed game, I want no part of it.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:33 pm

Honestly, pretty much all games in the wild (ie, not run by Den people) start with the GM trying to tie the characters together, and it's like herding cats anyway. I don't know if this condemns things on first principles, or is just "yeah, so?" If I were just writing a Hercules/PotC crossfic, I'd just have Hades and Barbossa team up, or have Hades maneuvering a Barbossa puppet, and have them kidnap Meg. Or have Barbossa find an amphora that kicks him back in time, with Jack Sparrow tagging along through phlebotinum, then you have Barbossa stomping across ancient Greece, and Hercules basically says to Jack "hey, fucker, you know this guy, so you're helping me." Individual heroes are easy enough, it's when you have to create that broad metaplot that things get more difficult.

One way to go is say that the villains themselves are teaming up, Legion of Doom style, except that such a thing gets wonky due to timeline degregation (as shown above, you have to pull some DM shenanigans to get Barbossa and Hades teamed up).

That said, the idea of Friends and the High Council does seem like it would work remarkably well. You have one ancient, eternal supreme sealed evil in a can using a network of lesser villains, empowered with Hellish might, who is opposed by an alliance of allmost of the Disney heroes.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:08 pm

Why do people keep viewing the lens of a potential Disney crossovers through the lenses of action protagonists like Hercules?

I'd say that about 4/5ths of Disney protagonists (2/3rds if we're including stuff like shows and video games) could get their ass kicked in a fair fight by a random high school jock. A little under half of the protagonists can't even bring non-violent schticks to the table superior to a random high school jock.

I mean, there's nothing stopping from you from making it a Disney-fied version of the Worthies, but that necessarily means putting a floor of ass-kicking at around Darkwing Duck level. Or if you want to do things Black Forest-style, making him a benchmark for an end-of-progression advancement mark. The Disney Adventures universe is not the same as the House of Mouse or even Kingdom Hearts verse precisely for that reason.

Again, that's fine and all, but keep in mind that unless you're marketing specifically to faux-awesome obsessed geeks, most normie fans people will want to play characters like Donald, Wall-E, and Doug.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:15 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Why do people keep viewing the lens of a potential Disney crossovers through the lenses of action protagonists like Hercules?

Because no one wants to play fucking Donald Duck as he just walks around town being a perfectly normal person who happens to be a duck with no pants.

Again, that's fine and all, but keep in mind that unless you're marketing specifically to faux-awesome obsessed geeks, most normie fans people will want to play characters like Donald, Wall-E, and Doug.

Who are these deranged mutants, and do they play non-adventuring farmers and leather workers in D&D, too?

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:07 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:
Again, that's fine and all, but keep in mind that unless you're marketing specifically to faux-awesome obsessed geeks, most normie fans people will want to play characters like Donald, Wall-E, and Doug.
Who are these deranged mutants, and do they play non-adventuring farmers and leather workers in D&D, too?

To be fair, there will be those who want to be:

And if want to play Wall-E, then you're essentially asking to play:

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:11 pm

virgil wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote:
Again, that's fine and all, but keep in mind that unless you're marketing specifically to faux-awesome obsessed geeks, most normie fans people will want to play characters like Donald, Wall-E, and Doug.
Who are these deranged mutants, and do they play non-adventuring farmers and leather workers in D&D, too?
To be fair, there will be those who want to be:

See, that's Donald with levels of Wizard. That is very much an action hero/D&D type character, and the difference between "I want to play Donald Trump" and "In this werewolf chronicle, I want to play Donald Trump, who's secretly a garou."