Annoying Game Questions You Want Answered

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:08 am

Hmm.... I'd imagine a drafting program was probably used, actually. Those have been around a good while, and weren't terribly unusual.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:05 pm

I think any graphics software with a grid would work (GIMP is free). Don't know if any were specifically made for this sort of thing.

Count Arioch the 28th · Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:11 pm

Seeing the Magic threads has piqued my interest in playing Magic again. Keeping in mind that I've been out of the game since the start of 4th edition (when the set was flooded with shit cards and I ragequit) and played briefly during Weatherlight for a bit (although mostly with cards I already had), what would I need to know to get back in it? The cards in the Ravnica set in the thread about it look interesting but I don't understand a lot of the lingo being used these days. Keep in mind that I'm not good enough to play at a competitive level so I may not grasp the minutiae that becomes important when you're playing a skilled opponent but I wouldn't mind a refresher if one exists.

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:21 pm

If you want a nice quick way to try out some modern Magic cards you could do worse than take a look at Magic Duels - the free to play Hearthstone-a-like that came out a month or so ago. It has some handy tutorials explaining some of the new mechanics and the game is a little streamlined to make it easier to play online.

Eikre · Post by **Eikre** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:20 pm

I haven't played the latest one, but the Duels series is pretty good at bringing you up to courtesy level of minimum competence that you'd like to have before you show up to events in the flesh. Don't get bitchy when the computer doesn't let you make takebacks or proceeds at speed through the trade of priority; there are a couple of poor choices in the interface, but the ones that hold you to your mistakes will ultimately turn you out as a more crisp and disciplined player for the tables.

After you've got the routine functions back in muscle memory, you can visit Friday Night Magic no problem. It has its host of sharp players, but if you've got a few heuristics in your pocket (BREAD, land budget, a review of the card list), then you can get close enough to the top to hope that luck and wit will carry you the rest of the way.

Count Arioch the 28th · Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:13 am

I've been playing that a bit, thanks for the suggestion.

I'm not having a lot of luck asking this on /tg/, I can't seem to be heard over all the assholes barking about marrying a drow like a bunch of goddamn trained neckbearded parrots. Anyway, what are good Pathfinder supplements for adding stuff for warrior types in Pathfinder? I've got the Dreamscarred Press version of the Book of Weaboo Fightan Magic, also I have the melee and ranged combat toolkits. Anything else? I'm not adverse to 3pp stuff like I was with 3E because a lot of 3rd party stuff seems a bit more balanced than Paizo stuff (yeah, not a high bar to cross, I know..)

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:16 am

I've thought for a while now that D&D's tiered spell series should be collapsed, ie, that Cure Light/Moderate/Serious/Major Wounds should be condensed into just Cure Wounds and either the spell slot used or the caster level dictates how much you heal, and Summon Nature's Ally/Summon Monster should just be a single spell each that directs you to the list appropriate to your level, or maybe even just a single spell for both that gives you a list based on level and class/theme.

But sitting down to work on a rewrite of D&D spells, I have a new question- should a change in target category mean a different spell? Should Animal Growth and Enlarge Person really be different spells? Or would it be better to just have a spell something like this?

Enlarge
Transmutation
Level: Druid, Sorcerer or Wizard 1
Components: VS
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium
Target: One Creature (animal or humanoid) no larger than Gargantuan
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You cause one creature to grow to twice their normal size and eight times their normal weight. This changes their size category to the next largest, and gives them a +2 size bonus to strength, increases their natural armor by 2, and a -2 size penalty to dexterity, and the relevant penalty to attacks and ac based on their size. If the creature has any equipment carried or worn, it enlarges with them.
If there is insufficient room to accommodate the creature's new size, the creature may attempt to burst the enclosure with a strength check (using its new strength and the break check DC for the appropriate material). Failure indicates they grow to maximum size and are entrapped, but otherwise safe.

Arcane casters may cast this spell on humanoids, nature casters (druid/ranger) may cast this spell on animals.
Augmenting:

+1 spell level: Arcane casters may affect animals, monstrous humanoids and giants; Nature casters may affect Humanoids and Fae
+3 spell levels: you may affect a number of creatures equal to your caster level, and give them a +8 size bonus to strength, +4 size bonus to constitution, increase their natural armor by 2, and a -2 size penalty to dexterity.
- Targets=1/2CL: Creatures gain +1/3 CL resistance bonus to saves, and DR 5(1/3 CL)/magic

CapnTthePirateG · Post by **CapnTthePirateG** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:23 am

Can I use Lord of the Uttercold on a Shadow Evocation? Trying to see if Uttercold Assault Necromancer is viable sans actually using evocation spells.

Post by **fbmf** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:45 pm

Prak wrote:I've thought for a while now that D&D's tiered spell series should be collapsed, ie, that Cure Light/Moderate/Serious/Major Wounds should be condensed into just Cure Wounds and either the spell slot used or the caster level dictates how much you heal, and Summon Nature's Ally/Summon Monster should just be a single spell each that directs you to the list appropriate to your level, or maybe even just a single spell for both that gives you a list based on level and class/theme.

I did this for the PHB spells a couple of years ago. I'll send you the word file to look over, if you like. You run out of 8th and 9th level spells, though. I found a lot of high level spells rather shouldn't be high level or are upgrades to other spells and got collapsed downward.

Game On,
fbmf

Emerald · Post by **Emerald** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:49 pm

I'd like to take a look at the file as well if you don't mind. I think that'd make a good IMOI post, actually, if reformatting it isn't too annoying.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:51 pm

fbmf wrote:You run out of 8th and 9th level spells, though. I found a lot of high level spells rather shouldn't be high level or are upgrades to other spells and got collapsed downward.

That's not exactly your fault though, so much as the game not giving much of a shit about the highest levels of the game.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:05 am

Yeah, and I'd honestly consider the "this is just an upgrade" more of a feature than a bug. I mean, the lack of unique 8th and 9th level spells is definitely a bug, but the fact that so many are upgrades of lower level spells is nice as its own thing.

I'd suggest putting it up on Google Docs/Drive and linking it since I think a good number of people would be interested in it and that doesn't require reformatting.

Eikre · Post by **Eikre** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:23 am

Bears mentioning that Monte Cook did this when he wrote the spell lists for Arcana Unearthed/Evolved.

I don't remember them being peculiarly shitty. Not that they're inspired, or anything.

On eighth and ninth level spells just being scaled up versions of lesser spells: Metamagic also serves to put lower-level spells into upper-level slots, making the proportion of hand-made to scaled-up even lower. Makes me think that just not writing any upper-level spells at all and just giving those slots to dedicated spellcasters for scaling might be a merited direction for a heartbreaker.

vagrant · Post by **vagrant** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:36 pm

Haha you said bears. I have nothing constructive to add. Also I would also be interested in looking at that collapsed list. Maybe if I add enough homebrew to DnD, it'll be fixed

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:00 am

So, last session I introduced Library Space (a la Discworld) to my game so that the players could get out of a demiplane they'd gotten trapped on due to the plotted death of their interplanar ride.

However, now they're going to start next session actually in Library Space, trying to get somewhere (presumably their starting town's library).

The problem being that Library Space is a giant transitive plane connecting all libraries in all universes, and they have no clue how to get where they're going. I realized that a way to handle this is to do a Library Space hexcrawl, but what is the best way to handle this?

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:12 pm

They are in a library. Either find a librarian, or find a book with instructions. Duh.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:56 pm

Longes wrote:They are in a library. Either find a librarian, or find a book with instructions. Duh.

L-Space being infinitely large in size and consistently filled with bookshelves, it contains infinite copies of every book that could possibly be written, in all possible languages and ciphers. Successfully navigating L-Space is an art, and you're really finding your way by instinct and memory, sticking to shelves and covers that look familiar to you.

The odds of you finding any particularly useful book on how to navigate it is low.

So I'd say: a crawl, they pass by the Librarian (who gives them his spare ball of string or at least nods and says "Ook"), they slay a cliche (a gray beast that makes people fall asleep from its presence), they recognize some books after that, they find their way home.

hyzmarca · Post by **hyzmarca** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:09 pm

Prak wrote:So, last session I introduced Library Space (a la Discworld) to my game so that the players could get out of a demiplane they'd gotten trapped on due to the plotted death of their interplanar ride.

However, now they're going to start next session actually in Library Space, trying to get somewhere (presumably their starting town's library).

The problem being that Library Space is a giant transitive plane connecting all libraries in all universes, and they have no clue how to get where they're going. I realized that a way to handle this is to do a Library Space hexcrawl, but what is the best way to handle this?

Dewy decimal card catalog. There must be a card catalog. An infinitely large card catalog, at that.

What they need to do is find the card for a book called Exit, and track it down. And then they'll find a children's pop-up book full of doors, magical doors. L Space contains magical books, after all. And when they pick one of those doors, they'll come out a matching one somewhere in the multiverse. I'd suggest Australia.

Emerald · Post by **Emerald** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:48 am

On the subject of the Dewey Decimal System and tracking things down, I've run a "functionally infinite library" dungeon before, maybe it'll give you some ideas.

The library is an enormous number of sections (each roughly the size of one or two classrooms, with 1-4 rooms in each) that look like they're one big library but are actually connected by portals that look like plain old archways, each with five glyphs on it in a pentagon shape. Three of the glyphs stand for digits, and are the Dewey Decimal number for the section. One of the glyphs represents what you might find in that section: Guardian, Trap, Infection (monster or other hazard harming the library), Inhabitant (a neutral or friendly creature stuck in or working for the library), Traveler, Obstacle (something wrong with the section, like a collapsed roof, flooded rooms, etc.), Treasure (a magical book or other valuable), or Guide (something to help you navigate the library). The last glyph represents the "theme" of the section: Musty Tomb, Research Library, Cozy Study, Natural Conservatory, or Unusual Location (like a section that's one big book, a glass globe hanging in darkness, etc.).

Whenever a person (or group holding hands) enters an archway, they're transported to a random other section. Roll for the glyphs to generate the section; for example, a roll of 777 (Cinematography and Videography) for the DD number, Traveler for what's in it, and Musty Tomb for the theme might be a dim, cobweb-filled section that hasn't been visited in years, full of books on illusion magic theory and with all the illusory tapestries and sculptures all around the room being the only things not covered in dust, and currently there's a pair of gnomes looking through the shelves on the top floor for an obscure historical treatise on the use of illusions in an ancient gnome-kobold war.

If a Guide room is rolled, ignore the DD number and theme, as there are only three such rooms, each of which requires completing a challenge of some sort to use. One is the Card Catalog, where you can ask the golem there some questions, and for each he'll hand you a card out of his cabinet with the glyph coordinates of a section whose books should hold the answer you seek. One is the Information Center, where you can get a library card; each person holding a library card who walks through the archway at once can freeze the value for one of the glyphs, so a party with a few library cards that deciphers the glyphs can slowly close in on a desired section. One is the Front Desk, where there is an archway that lets you punch in a particular glyph coordinate and go directly to that section (but no guarantees on getting back).

The way to exit the library was to figure out the DD pattern (which, had they not figured it out on their own, I'd have given to them with an easy Knowledge check once they hit all three Guide rooms) and then track down a section whose DD number was unassigned or no longer used--since those sections obviously wouldn't exist as part of the library, going to one of them would shunt them out onto a random plane--though that was because the main point of the dungeon was already to go in and find something, with leaving mostly being an afterthought. Since leaving is the whole point, I like hyzmarca's idea of tracking down a magical book better.

Count Arioch the 28th · Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:59 am

I seem to remember asking this and being told it's a bad idea but I forget why. Is there a downside to simply giving all non 1/2 level BaB classes improved unarmed strike?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:22 am

Silliness?

RE: the Library

So, I ran tonight with Emerald's suggestion with the party arriving at the Front Desk (seemed like the reasonable place for them to enter as they entered through a magic book the sole purpose of which was for people to be able to enter Library Space). They asked the Kolyarut attendant a few questions, like where they could find a book on Soul Trapping Magic (660, Medicine & Health), a guide to the glyphs (020, Library & Information Services), and information on getting to Balefire (114, Metaphysics, Space) and asked him to set the portal there to 020 so they could start there.

I know one player is enjoying it, and the other couple haven't said one way or the other, but it seems to be working pretty well, even if I occasionally have to stop a moment and translate "Dewey Decimal>Real Topic>D&D Topic"

GnomeWorks · Post by **GnomeWorks** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:00 pm

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:I seem to remember asking this and being told it's a bad idea but I forget why. Is there a downside to simply giving all non 1/2 level BaB classes improved unarmed strike?

Hmm... well, they can always make AoOs because they're always armed?

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:04 am

I'm reading Cyberpunk 2020, and the Corporate role has "Resources" as its special ability. Resources 10 means you are able to charter private jets and hire team of Solos. How the hell is this supposed to work?

pragma · Post by **pragma** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:56 am

I found CP2020 baffling for a number of reasons even back when I played it in middle school. The special abilities were so useful, as was the boost in starting cash they conferred, that there was little reason not to max them.

I think the resources ability is supposed to be limited by the corporate backstabbing you engender by using resources, but there's certainly no mechanical support for that. Fortunately, I never had a player who was interested in being a suit, so I just had to field other crazy stuff.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:44 am

CP2020 is more or less a framework for Cyberpunk adventures, but it doesn't tell the players what to play inside that framework. While it is heavily implied that players should do stuff similar to what they'd do in Shadowrun, it's still possible to play cops, a gang of bikers or a group of corporate executives.

Theoretically, a CP2020 Fixer could be an armchair character who just does biz and has other people handle the action.

This is why starting a game of CP2020 without setting what you want to play, and letting players create whatever they want rarely leads to anything playable.