Annoying Game Questions You Want Answered

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:02 pm

That sounds ridiculous and terrible and I recommend finding another forum or a nice video game.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:02 pm

What sensible people.

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:10 pm

I think I may have found that forum myself a few years ago. The rules sound vaguely familiar. After getting some fairly strong 2e dickery vibes from the GMs, I walked away without even having finished a character.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:26 pm

Chamomile wrote:I think I may have found that forum myself a few years ago. The rules sound vaguely familiar. After getting some fairly strong 2e dickery vibes from the GMs, I walked away without even having finished a character.

Highly unlikely. The forum I'm applying to is from 2011, has 1 GM, and is in russian.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:50 am

Longes wrote:The forum doesn't allow: Generation lower than 11th, Code of Honor, Willpower over 6, merits that protect you from domination or blood bonds, out of clan disciplines at chargen, disciplines over 3 at chargen, some other stuff.

If you go ahead, you're going to be fucked, quite hard, and repeatedly. That said, make a note in your basic character description that your character never looks people in the face. Justify it with considering them beneath his contempt if that fits the megalomania. This way you actually can't be Dominated, and any time it comes up, point the GM to the description you actually posted. Don't be surprised if they say "Fuck you, munchkin" and you get Dominated anyway, though.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:28 am

So, more about the new game. Sadly, the idea I came up with in the "prcs for good wizards" thread, the accidental angel-lock, won't work for a number of reasons, but basically because it just doesn't fit the campaign and DM style.

I'm trying to come up with several character ideas to lob at him at once, and need a bit of help with a couple.

He's using a Mythic Earth where different countries are different races, and we'll be heading to the new world shortly after the game starts.

The build-rules: For a while, he's been talking about a "no core races/classes" game, and this is it. I'd be cool with that, but he's gone farther, saying Gestalt, but really he means "have a LA, it'll be one side of your gestalt at start," and he really, really doesn't want us playing things that are just subraces of PHB stuff, or any of the savage races, or dragons*. Templates seem fine. Level 5.

*So, there goes one of my more interesting ideas, a dragon in search of El Dorado, and my fallback, goblin anything.

So far, I'm going to pitch a Thri Kreen warlock/soulknife that I've wanted to play for years, and a mummy desert elf wu jen/shugenja that just seems like a cool idea.

I'm also looking at a half-dragon (dragonwrought) kobold that would be heavily based on Skyrim and seeking to unlock more draconic heritage and power. Probably Dragonfire Adept and something else from Dragon CockMagic. The question on this one is, how do I make a kobold medium? Because I want him to be imposing, not minuscule. So far my only answer is "call a lizardfolk a kobold."

I also would like to find a way to make my old Wood Elf barbarian feasible. There are a couple problems here, one, plain wood elves aren't allowed, and two, barbarian seems to be the only way to get rage without already having it. Other than that, I can only think of "be a were-badger/wolverine." or "wait for Berserk (De&De) to become available." Thoughts?

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:19 am

I'm also looking at a half-dragon (dragonwrought) kobold that would be heavily based on Skyrim and seeking to unlock more draconic heritage and power. Probably Dragonfire Adept and something else from Dragon CockMagic. The question on this one is, how do I make a kobold medium? Because I want him to be imposing, not minuscule. So far my only answer is "call a lizardfolk a kobold."

Dragon has Half-Minotaur and Half-Ogre templates what would work.

I also would like to find a way to make my old Wood Elf barbarian feasible. There are a couple problems here, one, plain wood elves aren't allowed, and two, barbarian seems to be the only way to get rage without already having it. Other than that, I can only think of "be a were-badger/wolverine." or "wait for Berserk (De&De) to become available." Thoughts?

Other sources of rage at your level are Half-Orc Paragon 2 and the Proto-Creature template.

I'd also recommend a Ghost. They can make very effective characters.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:05 pm

Well, I sent the DM three concepts: Thri Kreen Warlock/Soulknife who was put on a suicide squad sort of mission, Mummy Wu Jen/Shugenja who is recovering his power to return to his desert necropolis to rule, and half-dragon kobold who is doing the Dovahkin thing and going around gaining more dragon powers.

Thri Kreen in general were ruled against, because 3e flanderized them into a race that makes more sense on the savage humans side

The mummy is "being thought over." (ie, "no.")

The Dovah-ripoff got a lot of traction. Of course it still led to a discussion of what parts don't work, because the DM said nothing about where any non-standard races are in the world, so I had to ferret out whether it would be at all possible to play a reptilian race without it being a cultural transplant from the new world. Now we're engaged in a debate about whether I can carry on with my idea for a power ritual that involves eating true dragon hearts to gain more power. Because he didn't say what kind of dragons we'd be interacting with so I assumed a mix of good and evil, with plenty of evil dragons I could rip hearts out of for more power.

And he starts giving me crap about consuming sapients, and that turning parts into armour and such is desecration when I try to draw the parallel, but that ritual consumption is close to ritual sacrifice, which is "evil."

So I'm increasingly feeling like I just can't fucking playing in this guy's game because he fucking knows my play style and seems incapable of accommodating it even a little.

edit: and with this "no standard races or classes" thing, there isn't even a safe boring option like "fine, I guess I'll just play a human fighter." Even if I tried to play a paladin type character, that would actually lead to even bigger problems.

Aryxbez · Post by **Aryxbez** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:36 am

Prak_Anima wrote:So I'm increasingly feeling like I just can't fucking playing in this guy's game because he fucking knows my play style and seems incapable of accommodating it even a little.

If he's afraid they're "overpowered" ye could always point out how this isn't the case, including stuff that's better, & if nothing else, his list of weaknesses that would screw over the character. Otherwise, if he's just anti-fun for cool ideas, I'd just say "give me a character card" (list/example of accepted character ideas for "his World") or basically "then what DO YOU want me to play?!

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:25 am

It's not even overpoweredness. He's making us use LA and monster classes. One guy is playing a Rakshasa. I'm trying my level best to start out as what I actually want to play, rather than needing to take another X levels of whatever.

On the ideas... he's just... I don't know. He plays paladins and "might as fucking well be a paladin, just without the paladin levels" characters. Or arrogant wizards and sorcerers. The one thing I know of that he's played that was neither of those things was a CN dwarf who was basically all id and went and did crazy stuff ...for a paladin player. So it's not like he was going out and endangering anything but himself.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:04 am

Here's my Malkavian. Did I miss anything crucial?

Aryxbez · Post by **Aryxbez** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:23 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:It's not even overpoweredness. He's making us use LA and monster classes. One guy is playing a Rakshasa. I'm trying my level best to start out as what I actually want to play, rather than needing to take another X levels of whatever.

On the ideas... he's just... I don't know. He plays paladins and "might as fucking well be a paladin, just without the paladin levels" characters. Or arrogant wizards and sorcerers.

Well he probably has certain LA values or monster classes in mind that he visualizes storys in his head for his campaign. While any ones he doesn't like, he'll probably make up a story for why doesn't fit in his game (as looks like he's done with all of your ideas). So as I said in my last post, I'd recommend asking him what the "approved LA races/Monster Classes" are for his game, or what he had in mind. As well that, if ye can look at the other PC's, see how they compare in power to yours, ye could probably make a case for how yours compare to theirs, whether how yours are weaker/stronger. Especially in case if Rakashasa is "stronger", getting little/no flak, explain the comparison, as Rakashasa gets no trouble, but your ideas do??

Maybe he wants monsters because they're like stereotypes, have clear tropes surrounding them, and thus doesn't need to worry the "depth" of a humanoid mind? So he dislikes your ideas on the ground of them being so fancy, though if so, the Mummy is straight trope of "long forgotten pharaoh" so maybe bring up Yu-gi-Oh or something & he'll dig it? Aside from that, I'm also thinking he maybe wants an "evil" campaign, & monsters with their clear tropes + evil, makes his job easier?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:53 pm

Nope, definitely not evil. I think he wants a dashing heroics game, and I think that's the problem. I mean, my first four ideas, and the responses in bold, were:

Guy screws up his warlock deal and accidentally makes a pact with a celestial instead of a demon. Imagine if Deadpool somehow accidentally became a paladin, except the class levels are warlock. Isn't sure it'll work for his game because he can't go off the cuff like I or the Rakshasa player can, unless I wanted to make it a guy slowly turning into a celestial in a redemption story*
Thri Kreen Soulknife/Warlock- with the ability to be deadly in your skivvies, the clearest profession choice is assassin, but I need a reason for him to go to the new world on this mission, so lets add in some suicide squad, say he was caught, and given the option of being executed or sent on a dangerous mission to talk to dragons. Thri kreen seem like they'd be on the side of the savage humans from the east, not part of the fantasy european alliance.
Risen Pharaoh- mummified desert elf who needs to rebuild his own power before he can return to rule his desert empire "I'm hesitant, I'm going to need more time to think about that one"
Half Dragon "Greater Kobold" (Lizardfolk) Dragon Shaman/DF Adept seeking more draconic power. well, after we sorted the part about the reptilian race (apparently they almost all live in S.America, but I was able to get some kobolds in Europe), and brought up the "Ritual of Tiamat" to gain more draconic powers: "How about, instead of being evil, you learn from meditation and communing with other dragons Avatar style, and that's what unlocks your dragonfire invocations?"
Last I checked, eating the hearts of evil dragons generally wasn't considered evil.

I added a couple more last night after I rewrote those to be a bit more neutralish:
Gryphon Hexblade: because it would be a shit ton of fun to play a horse sized cat who can hex people.
Treat Artificer: again, just be kind of fun to play a treant.

*Redemption stories can gargle my balls.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:48 am

Not to, you know, harp on it or anything, but jesus shit-eating christ, truename magic was written offensively poorly.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:48 am

Prak_Anima wrote:Last I checked, eating the hearts of evil dragons generally wasn't considered evil.

You don't eat their hearts in Skyrim. You absorb their souls.

Dragonborn are able to intuitively use shouts by absorbing the soul of a dragon, and with it the dragon's understanding of the words.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:54 am

You're right! ...about Skyrim. Which admittedly was the impetus for this character.

However, if you look into source material that is older than my friend's toddler, you would find that in the legend of Fafnir, Sigurd is instructed to cook and eat the dragon's heart after slaying him to gain his power. Tasting the blood as it was cooking specifically gave the power to understand the speech of birds.

Further, you can look at the myths of the celts and various other indigenous tribes and see beliefs about consuming the body of your enemies to gain their strength and power.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:47 pm

I was talking about Skyrim specifically. Anyway absorbing the soul of an evil creature is definitely more evil than just eating its heart (that is to say greater than 0), so that probably won't help.

I don't get why he didn't allow celestial deadpool though. Is it that he wants intrinsically good characters and not evil characters forced to be on team good?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:24 pm

Eh, I don't buy into D&D's "messing with souls teh ebul" shit. In the world of D&D, souls are so useful and versatile, it's kind of like saying "using metal is evil."

Anyway. No, he was primarily concerned with keeping up with it, I guess. The campaign is set in a fantasy version of earth, with arctic humans in Iceland, arctic orcs in Norway, high elves in Ireland, etc. A horde of savage humanoids (goblins, ogres, trolls, etc) is growing in the east and has recently shown that they have allied with dragons, after europe wiped their dragons out some time ago and signed an alliance. So the party is being sent to the New World to try to find dragons there to get to side with them. So we're doing diplomacy (yaaay...ugh).

He doesn't feel that the accidental angel-lock would fit because he's unsure he could actually spitball stuff (I have no fucking clue why he thinks it would be necessary to come up with stuff off the top of his head).

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:07 pm

So, since I realized how redundant dragon shaman/dragonfire adept is, I've got a couple levels on one side of the gestalt to work with. I'm toying with the idea of adding word magic to the concept, but, alas, truename magic is a steaming bowl of shit. I could go with artificer as a sort of "rune mage" but can anyone think of a class that is more of a word magic sort of class? Anywehere, I can try to get 3rd party stuff approved even.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:01 am

There are a few.

1. Runesmith from Races of Stone.
2. Dracolexi from Races of the Dragon.
3. Some of the truespeak PrCs aren't such shit.
4. Many bard PrCs work for this.

One nice option for a build like this is the Multiheaded template. It will multiply your breath weapon by the number of heads.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:04 am

There is a rune-based class in the Warcraft TTRPG game books IIRC

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:31 am

Prak_Anima wrote:He doesn't feel that the accidental angel-lock would fit because he's unsure he could actually spitball stuff (I have no fucking clue why he thinks it would be necessary to come up with stuff off the top of his head).

Yeah, that's the thing I was confused about.

Prak_Anima wrote:Eh, I don't buy into D&D's "messing with souls teh ebul" shit. In the world of D&D, souls are so useful and versatile, it's kind of like saying "using metal is evil."

I imagined that using a soul prevents a being from getting an afterlife, which sounds evil in my books (unless the extra power you get lets you save one or more good souls). But, that's just conjecture. What happens to used souls?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:58 am

Except that if you're preventing evil souls from getting their afterlife reward, that would be good.

As to what happens, I suppose it depends on the game. Tome posits souls condensed into the building blocks of Celestia and Hell, and trapped in gems or conglomerated into taffy as currency. I wasn't even originally talking about consuming souls, just hearts or fundamentum, which should be neutral. But my friend thinks that desecration is a thing people shouldn't do, so... I mean, I have no clue why. When I'm dead, I don't give a shit what someone does with my body. If the coroner wants to fuck it in the ass while it lies on a cold slab in the morgue, I really don't care.

Count Arioch the 28th · Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:48 am

Prak_Anima wrote:Except that if you're preventing evil souls from getting their afterlife reward, that would be good.

As to what happens, I suppose it depends on the game. Tome posits souls condensed into the building blocks of Celestia and Hell, and trapped in gems or conglomerated into taffy as currency. I wasn't even originally talking about consuming souls, just hearts or fundamentum, which should be neutral. But my friend thinks that desecration is a thing people shouldn't do, so... I mean, I have no clue why. When I'm dead, I don't give a shit what someone does with my body. If the coroner wants to fuck it in the ass while it lies on a cold slab in the morgue, I really don't care.

I'm wondering if maybe it would make sense that messing with souls would be considered dishonorable the same way destroying magic weapons is considered dishonorable, since that makes it so there's less power available in the universe for everyone involved...

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:15 am

I suppose I could see that, but then anything that destroys wealth or otherwise removes it from the economy should be considered dishonorable as well.