Annoying Game Questions You Want Answered

Blicero · Post by **Blicero** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:42 pm

Is it possible to refer to humans as "the race of man" or whatever in a modern fantasy RPG product without coming off as a sexist asshole? Even if you are very good about alternating between using "he" and "she" in the actual text, or if you just use the singular "they" or whatever?

(I am relatively confident that the answer is "No, you cannot", but I am looking for a few more datapoints.)

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:32 pm

I don't think you'll be attacked for using "mankind" as a synonym for "humanity." Not by anybody really worth listening to anyhow.

If I were writing a set of rules, I would use male or female pronouns in class entries, depending on whether the example or archetype character for that class is male or female. For general purpose sections like rules covering pickpocketing or grappling, I would use second person pronouns for the person undertaking an action, and third person pronouns or gender-neutral terms like "the opponent" or "the target" for the subject of that action. E.g. "you may initiate a grapple with a creature as an attack action by making a melee attack against their touch AC."

Your mileage may vary, of course.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:41 am

Way, way, way back, "man" meant human, and male and female were distinguished by wer-man and wif-man (or something similar; look it up if the exact obsolete prefix matters to you). That's evolved since then, but 'mankind' is cognate of the modern 'man,' not a derivative.

TL;DR: No. Anyone who pitches a fit over "mankind" is ignorant (or foolish enough that they will likely also be upset at other words like 'manual').

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:58 am

As a stylistic choice though I tend to avoid it unless you're going for a slightly retro vibe like in 40k.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:22 am

Don't alternate between using he and she mid document, it's confusing as fuck. I've seen some tiny indie products do it and it's mind bogglingly terrible. Pick a style and format that works for you and keep that consistent throughout

Edit: Also don't use Zhe or any of that garbage. It doesn't expand my ideas of gender identity it makes me think I'm reading a product by a pretentious asshole that can't use their own language properly.

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:15 am

"Race of man" is like an age of enlightenment thing, so it sounded old a hundred years ago. If you're doing Space 1889, it's totally appropriate for old people to say, including having feminists complaining about it. Seriously. French revolutionary women vigorously complained that the new whole "rights of man" thing had neglected to mention or enforce the rights of women, and corrected that. Two hundred and twenty four years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarati ... le_Citizen

So yes, you would come across as casually sexist to the sort of people who care.

--

Hmm. Originally, we had wir (male) and wif (female) as types of man (human). Then we moved to man and wif as man-kynde, to man and wifman as people, to man and wiman as mankind, to man and woman as human.

And then men kept trying to assert that "man" still meant "women too", like it did in Old English, over and over again, but mostly because women were property and you also included your house and cattle and language and national borders and all sorts of things when talking about "man", as a man, with the law backing you up. Feminists have been pointing out this problem for at least four hundred years, and the emergence of "womankind" as a word in the late 13th century suggests more like forever.

--

Huh, "racism" is a word from 1932, to describe the early writings of the Nazis. "Race" is only a 16th century concept (of cursed ancestry lines) invented by the church to support the Atlantic slave trade, leading to the genocidal colonisation policies in the Americas and elsewhere. Words, eh. They mean things.

TheFlatline · Post by **TheFlatline** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:17 am

"Race of man" is inaccurate anyway since humans are a species and not a race anyway.

And yeah yeah, hybrids like half-elves and half-orcs can still breed. Look at mules.

But if someone said "race of mankind" and another person got genuinely offended for sexist reasons... I'd probably stop playing because if that offended them almost anything will.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:51 am

Call them the race of hu.

As to switching pronouns, make sure that you do it by section or by paragraph instead of by word so it will be less confusing.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:56 am

Yeah, under no circumstances should you ever switch pronouns which should have the same implied antecedent. It's okay if you're doing the starting fluff text for a prestige class or something, where each sentence can be read as describing different people with the class, but it doesn't work when describing a single individual.

schpeelah · Post by **schpeelah** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:56 am

Dean wrote: Edit: Also don't use Zhe or any of that garbage. It doesn't expand my ideas of gender identity it makes me think I'm reading a product by a pretentious asshole that can't use their own language properly.

Singular they isn't bad tho.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:45 pm

I agree with that

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:16 pm

I don't like singular they, but it's more a preference for canonical correctness. Also, we already lost the second person singular; it's a shame we're throwing away third person too.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:43 pm

fectin wrote:I don't like singular they, but it's more a preference for canonical correctness. Also, we already lost the second person singular; it's a shame we're throwing away third person too.

No one is losing the the third person singular, if you know a guy, you can call him he, if you know a girl, you can call her she, if you have a book, you can call it it.

Also what do you mean by "canonical" because this word means lots of things absolutely none of which makes sense in this context.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:40 pm

Yeah, the singular they has been in use since at least Shakespeare, so I'm really not sure what canon you're referring to here.

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:07 am

You can introduce your rules plurally if singular "they" is a bother.

When Rogues use sneak attack, they do extra damage according to their class table. For example, Jacinda is a 6th level Rogue, and she adds +3d6 precision damage when making sneak attacks. On gaining the 7th level of Rogue,
player would note an increase to +4d6 precision damage.

So you only use singular pronouns to talk about uniquely identified examples in the first place.

radthemad4 · Post by **radthemad4** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:51 pm

Another option is to use 'you'.

e.g. "At 6th level you add +3d6 precision damage when making sneak attacks."

Aryxbez · Post by **Aryxbez** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:08 pm

I always find in certain games, having randomly generated tables (like for Scavenging loot in a Post Apocalypse) would be mandatorily useful. I was wondering on some lessons on how to fill in content for tables like that, and I was pretty sure Frank may've did a post about it somewhere? I think it may've had to do with After Sundown or some such, but can't really remember where unfortunately.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:09 pm

Aryxbez wrote:I always find in certain games, having randomly generated tables (like for Scavenging loot in a Post Apocalypse) would be mandatorily useful. I was wondering on some lessons on how to fill in content for tables like that, and I was pretty sure Frank may've did a post about it somewhere? I think it may've had to do with After Sundown or some such, but can't really remember where unfortunately.

Potentially useful

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:23 am

It appears to be common in published D&D adventures to have a tournament arc. Where there are some mini-games and arena fights.
But why are they almost always single player mini-games and fights with no magic allowed?

I get that it is hard to write something to challenge both non-magic and magic users, even at low levels, but solving it by telling the magic users to fuck off, is awful.

Count Arioch the 28th · Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:23 am

Alright, snowball's chance in hell that I'll get an answer to this, but here goes:

I'm in a pathfinder game, and getting ready to join as a level 5 Tactician/level 6 Thrallherd. I have two mythic ranks.

Any tips and tricks for playing Pathfinder Psionics? My collective is kind of skimpy due to multiclassing, but I have figured out Collective Power is kind of important, and perhaps ways of getting focus faster is nice.

Unrelated to Pathfinder Psionics, what are decent, cheap ways to have flight at my level? I have Craft Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item so I have lots of cheap options.

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:24 am

ishy wrote:It appears to be common in published D&D adventures to have a tournament arc. Where there are some mini-games and arena fights.
But why are they almost always single player mini-games and fights with no magic allowed?

I get that it is hard to write something to challenge both non-magic and magic users, even at low levels, but solving it by telling the magic users to fuck off, is awful.

There's bits in modules where you have to social skill stuff, so have social skill or fuck off for a while. There's bits where you basically need a heal bot, so be a healer or fuck off for a while. Most of the module will be solved by the Wizard (and other casters), that's what they do, so have spells or fuck off almost always. There's often a bunch of traps and locks somewhere, or some other skill spotlight.

Sometimes you get chucked in a cell with no focus or components and with a gag, sometimes the Dragon knows Anti-Magic Field, and sometimes we pretend that fighters matter at any other time by highlighting their class abilities in a genre-appropriate way, by having a couple of meat sacks beat on each other until one of them falls over, while the spellcasters complain they'd have won that fight on round one if only they were allowed.

To which the fighters point out, casters are allowed in the arena, they're just not allowed to cast any spells there. Step up any time little man, etc. Hell, if you can't sneak a bunch of buffs into the arena, you're not trying, and you can be damn sure the NPCs will.

Count Arioch the 28th · Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:16 am

Turns out the answer to my flying dilemma is just use my thrallherd ability to grab the best mount of all: a druid.

Also, most of the group knows so little about psionics that they don't know that my mount could probably kick the snot out of me... the best thing I bring to the party is my ass-rest and I find that hilarious.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:42 am

Exploring a dungeon or castle is straight forward and usually involves a grid map, but how do you make exploring 'wilderness' like forest or jungle fun? Links to old den threads would be fine

erik · Post by **erik** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:37 pm

Have a map usable by players so there are discrete locations they are heading to. It is more fun to point on a map and say what route you are using than simply declaring a destination. If you are exploring then maybe provide a rudimentary map that they can fill the details in on.

Blicero · Post by **Blicero** » Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:02 pm

Have you seen the Alexandrian dude's hexcrawl system? It is a bit more comprehensive than what the typical retroclone has. The party can choose their movement type, which affects how likely they are to discover hidden features of the land and how likely they are to have chance encounters. It is set up so that players feel like they are engaged in vector-based continuous movement while still being confined to hexes from the MC's perspective. I have not used it for more than a session or two, but it seemed like it could be interesting.
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/173 ... s/hexcrawl