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Korwin
Duke


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 1900
Location: Linz / Austria

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Book of Ice, spend bardic music for Cha to attack.
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Red_Rob wrote:

I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
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K
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You can get Turn undead with sacred exorcist, but it won't be good.

Last edited by K on Tue May 29, 2012 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Prak
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, on the bright side, no pun intended, after compiling Light based spells from BoED, SpCom and ComMage, there are only three spells a wiz/sor cannot get through Arcane Disciple or Silver Pyromancer. One of which is a bard spell, and so could be learned through a scroll, another is a cleric spell, and can be learned from a naga. How does one add random Druid spells to arcane lists? Without Geomancer or the like, there'll be enough multiclassing as it is... and if I start bringing out thought bottles and shit the DM will just flat ban them.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Hicks
Duke


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1127
Location: Blytheville, AR

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Core 3.X Paladins are actually quite playable and level apropriate from level 1 to 20; at level 11, right when "being a dude in armor" no longer cuts it, you get a gold dragon pokemon that grows in power as you level. Pick up the Powerattack and Leadership feats, maybe spirited charge and its ilk (if using 3.0 charging rules), and your good to go. Did I mention the gold dragon that has more hit dice than you, can fly, casts spells, and is a gold dragon?
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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

playable or not, it just doesn't do what I want a paladin to be able to do most of the time, and when it does, it does so poorly. I consider Holy Sword to be an iconic holy warrior power, for example. Core paladins have to wait almost till the game is flat broken to do it, at best, twice a day, assuming there isn't anything better to prepare. I realise it's a contingency thing, not a big deal, but it's an example of the conceptual failings of the paladin class. Assuming I can get armour and such covered well enough, wizard would work much better, and I can still get a gold dragon Pokemon
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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K
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6242

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If you only need a few spells, there is no real reason why the Extra Spell feat can't get you Druid spells. Are they honestly that good?

That being said, being dragonblooded and a Sorcerer can get you Dragon Spell Pact from Dragons of Faerun and should also have no problem getting weird spells. The only problem is the XP cost and finding a dragon with the spells who is willing to trade.

If you want to wear full plate and use a Tower Shield and not have ASF, using the Snowcasting feat and Blue Ice armor works (Frostburn).

That being said, at this point you might just want a custom PrC.
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ishy
Duke


Joined: 05 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Cleric + 2 levels of prestige paladin?

- Edit:
Thought the errata said that you needed the spell on your classlist or something for the extra spell feat?

And that since Rules compendium you can't learn bard spells from scrolls.

Custom research works fine though if you get DM approval.
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Bigode wrote:
I wouldn't normally make that blanket of a suggestion, but you seem to deserve it: scroll through the entire forum, read anything that looks interesting in term of design experience, then come back.


Last edited by ishy on Tue May 29, 2012 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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fectin
Prince


Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 3757

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The warforged necro is already a construct, and is playable from level 1, like you asked. It's pure WotC, and fairly vanilla. I'm assuming you can find a way to get flight (haunt shift should work, if nothing else); everything else seems fairly straightforward:
You're already a construct
You can pretend to have a mask that opens once you get your familiar
You have a bunch of rays, right from the start, and spectral hand after
You can build zombies as your LMDs
Once you get Magic Jar, you can keep spare/specialized "suits" around

I guess you're not getting recharged by the sun, but that's about it.
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Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Is Extra Spell really worth it for wizards to grab Arcane Fusion assuming you can't grab a scroll and/or DMs are all 'raaagh, no scribing'.
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Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

K wrote:
If you only need a few spells, there is no real reason why the Extra Spell feat can't get you Druid spells. Are they honestly that good?

Crown of Brilliance (Clr6), Anger of the Noonday Sun (Drd6) and Heartfire (Brd2, Drd2)
So... eh.

Quote:
That being said, being dragonblooded and a Sorcerer can get you Dragon Spell Pact from Dragons of Faerun and should also have no problem getting weird spells. The only problem is the XP cost and finding a dragon with the spells who is willing to trade.

Hm, I'll look into it. Could be useful for saving feats if I can find dragons with the appropriate domains (Moon, Purification, Glory)

Quote:
If you want to wear full plate and use a Tower Shield and not have ASF, using the Snowcasting feat and Blue Ice armor works (Frostburn).

DM might have some bs about that, custom world and all. We'll see. Wish he'd tell me something about his damned world, other than laughing derisively when I mention that one idea I had was playing a dragon.

Quote:
That being said, at this point you might just want a custom PrC.

DM would ban thought bottles, won't tell me anything about his world, at least not voluntarily, I'd have to come up with specific questions, thinks WotC is balanced... and you think this means I have any chance of using a custom PrC? Heh.

Quote:
Cleric + 2 levels of prestige paladin?

Possible. You mean the one from UA, or do I remember another one...

Quote:
- Edit:
Thought the errata said that you needed the spell on your classlist or something for the extra spell feat?

Just checked, nope.

Quote:
And that since Rules compendium you can't learn bard spells from scrolls.

Fortunately, that's one way in which my friend's core focused knowledge is quite helpful.

I'm unsure about custom research. He's pulling a rule from our other GM friend (because he thinks said friend shits gold and will do anything he does) that says any PrC outside of Core requires personal research (which implies he's going to make such a pain in the ass). So I might be able to use that to get spell research allowed.

On warforged necro: the construct part wasn't really important, it was the "create suit from ectoplasm" That does still work, however.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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fectin
Prince


Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 3757

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ah. My bad then.
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Vebyast wrote:
Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

On the other hand... construct Tony Stark would be hilarious to play... some shades of Ted ("Yes, I've written Hasbro many angry letters about that") and construction of custom warforged components...
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So what is the use of Haunt Shift? If the idea is that I haunt my items with undead for easy trasnport... or create drone armours... well, that's cool, but... eh?
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Winnah
Duke


Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 1091
Location: Oz

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Easy transport is somewhat understated. You can repeatedly Haunt Shift all the undead into a tiny object. Practical limitations means you will have less undead available, but being able to summon your zombie chimera at a moments notice, then put it back in it's box when it is done flying you around, can be useful.

As for animating objects, one of the big benefits is that the normal vulnerabilities of the undead do not apply while the creature is immaterial. This includes Turning/Destruction, and in the case of undead with the ability to revive themselves (ghosts, vampires, liches), they simply go back to haunting the object if destroyed.

Nothing prevents you from destroying the object or location the Haunting Presence is tied to though. Could be slightly more difficult for a creature like a lich, who may have the ability to manipulate the base material of the haunted object, repair the base object, strengthen the base object or otherwise alter the normal features of the haunted object.

The most obvious exploit I can think of would be to Polymorph or Shrink Item something larger than Huge, down to a suitable size for haunting.
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fectin
Prince


Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 3757

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Actually, it's much better than that. Haunt-shifted undead keep their movement, and can animate objects (there's also something wierd where it alternates triggering off HD and CR). you can planar binding in a templated dragon an for a total cost of < 500gp animate an object with a fly speed around 300. Afrer that, it exploits itself. Animate a boat and fill it with skeleton archers or whatever.

They also keep abilities, so if you can make intelligent undead, it's even crazier.

I'm away from books right now, so I don't have all the details, but there some crazily good things you can do with it. Mostly they come down to "necromancy is not well thought out" though.
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Vebyast wrote:
Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.


Last edited by fectin on Tue May 29, 2012 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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fectin
Prince


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay, it's a little trickier than I remembered. You need to make the thing gain two HD after it becomes a haunting presence for that to work right. You can haunt shift 1d4/level HD, and nothing with 9 or more can be affected. Any haunting presence with 5 HD can animate, but not reposition any object (so a wagon can roll, but a club can't move. Arguements, ahoy!). Any with at least 10 HD and 17 cha can animate any object (as the MM entry, sort of). Objects are limited to an animated object CR no greater than the presence's CR. That's cool, but odd. To make it work well, you probably need to hand your zombie a couple of Arrows of Good +1 first.
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Vebyast wrote:
Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Should I include intelligent equine NPCs in my adventure stolen from a MLP episode?
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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deaddmwalking
Duke


Joined: 21 May 2012
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

My 4 year old has been having a blast watching My Little Pony. I say yes.
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Prak
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's the royal wedding episode plot.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Stahlseele
King


Joined: 14 Apr 2010
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Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

We watch it for the Plot.
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Ted the Flayer
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Joined: 31 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List


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Prak Anima wrote:
Um, Frank, I believe you're missing the fact that the game is glorified spank material/foreplay.
Frank Trollman wrote:
I don't think that is any excuse for a game to have bad mechanics.
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Avoraciopoctules
Overlord


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I normally run mostly Tome games, but one of the people in my group has requested that I run my next game using Pathfinder rules. He doesn't like making characters without a character sheet generator program, and nothing like that exists for Tome. Normally, he plays fairly weak wizard / psion multiclasses, but he wants to "try something new" with a PSRD Fighter who is a "shield specialist"

I suppose I am willing to indulge him and see how the group reacts, but I really want to make all the PCs at least vaguely relevant in encounters. I'm trying to figure out some ways to make fighters matter beyond just handing out artifact swords.

So far, I thought I might print out a bunch of ToB maneuvers on cards and just hand them out whenever there's a justification for PCs to learn new kung fu. Take an action to catch a breather and you refresh all of the cards you turned over. I might also let fighters upgrade to MTP super-feats or something. Let them downgrade save-or-lose effects to numerical debuffs, say. Is there anything I should keep in mind as I throw together this haphazard mishmash of barely-thought-out houserules?
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Prak
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Etools would work as a character gen for Tome, but really, smack your friend over the head with a notebook and tell him to grow the fuck up. It's like my friend who, for some reason, can't make a character on fucking binder paper, and if he has to, starts by copying the character sheet format...

For Pathfinder, I'd say just make a few custom feats. Give him iconic, level appropriate shield abilities, like blocking area of effect attacks and such with his shield, or stunning people with a shield bash, that kind of stuff. Hell, give him a feat that lets him daze and disarm people with a shield bash if they have a lower BAB than him. I've done shit like that in mock battles with plastic weapons because people with less weapon knowledge seriously don't expect it.

************

So, in my game, the paladin just got his mount ability. He.... was fucking useless in telling me what the hell he wanted. The fucking class clearly says "good magical beast, dragon, or quadrupedal outsider with CR 3 or less" but he basically went two directions whenever the subject came up, "horse" or "dragon." With no suggestions or desires in between.

So, I gave him a Silver Wyrmling, minus 2 HD, with the Large Size feat.

How fucked is my game now?
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ok, what is the best way to mimic a "I feed on someone's feelings of love for me/someone whom I've disguised myself as and it increases my power" affect in D&D?
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Koumei
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Prak_Anima wrote:

So, in my game, the paladin just got his mount ability. He.... was fucking useless in telling me what the hell he wanted. The fucking class clearly says "good magical beast, dragon, or quadrupedal outsider with CR 3 or less" but he basically went two directions whenever the subject came up, "horse" or "dragon." With no suggestions or desires in between.

So, I gave him a Silver Wyrmling, minus 2 HD, with the Large Size feat.

How fucked is my game now?


Well, that's a pretty awesome mount, and potentially better than its rider, but I doubt it's going to fuck things up really. You could have maybe gone:
CR 3: Draconic Heavy Warhorse
CR 4: Half Dragon Heavy Warhorse
CR 5: There's probably some stupid Draconic Mount creature in Draconomicon or whatever - alternatively, more hit dice
CR 6: Wyvern
CR 7+: more HD on that Wyvern, maybe chuck on Draconic/Half Dragon (the latter giving it a breath weapon nobody cares about, and burn a feat on having access to the Breath Weapon 1/d4 rounds - nobody cares but it feels draconic, so "fill your boots" as they say). Eventually it can have 21HD at CR 13, +2 for being Half Dragon so 15 (when the PC is 17th level) and you stop caring after that. At level 20 give a stupid capstone of "Your half dragon 21HD Wyvern now has the Of Legend Template" or something.
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