The Gaming Den

[shadzar]

since class is getting some attention and interest.. you have to wonder about races.

Tolkien inspired the basic races: elf, halfling (hobbit), dwarf

Humans exist because the players are humans and they present a baseline.

but what races are really needed for D&D 5e?

Humans are humans, and we are humans. it gives the closest thing to us to relate to so they make sense.

so what about the other, even staple races that have been in the game?

do we need elves? dwarves? halflings? Why?

Medieval Fantasy as the genre, as the game was created, has plenty to work with with only humans, magic, dragons, etc... so why are other races REALLY needed for PCs to play?

which races would be better left as optional?
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Swordslinger wrote:

Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.

Lewis Black wrote:

If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.

good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)

[Stahlseele]

To create a kind of alien society that one can nonetheless identify with?

Races to leave out:
Broken or just plain dumb shit.
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[John Magnum]

Please leave out whatever race shadzar is.
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[Koumei]

[erik]

Yah, no race is particularly necessary. You could even get rid of the humans.

I know 5e isn't going to radically depart from their past so obviously they are going to keep most all of the old races. However, I think it would be pretty cool if they had an alternate campaign setting with no elves, gnomes, dwarves, halflings or orcs.

Humans, illithid, goblinoids (in small & large sizes, ditch hobs, make bugs large), warforged (well, construct people anyway), sahuagin, formians (but not as outsiders) and... um, fuck it, vampires.

Now I could do things with this.

You've got your plucky humans that move somewhat freely between different civilizations. You've got an undead kingdom that tries to make certain that their human feeding stock stays complacent. You've got rival goblin kingdoms, worg cavalry vs ornithopter units. Mechanized metropolis with automatons of all shapes and sizes. Mind flayer empire that of course indulges in slavery. Sahuagin coastal outposts and undersea civilizations, along with some mutant spies. And mega-colonies of insect people.

There's reasons for any of them to work together or fight each other.

[sake]

Generally speaking a game setting that's not going to just be 'Humans of Various Vaguely familiar Though Rather Innoffensivly Generic Cultures' needs some combinations of-

The Middle ground race that can do any class/role pretty well (defaults to Humans normally although holy fuck am I tired of this)

The uglier and beefier than humans race

The prettier, graceful and more uppity than humans race

The Noble Savage race.

The Advanced Ancient Magic/Science Nerd race.

The TotallyNotGypsies race that no one really likes and seems to be really good at rogue type shit.

The We're Meeting You Filthy Furries Halfway, Please Buy Our Damn Game animal like race.

The Dark Angsty Cursed to Seem Evil but Actually Not and We All Shop at the Fantasy Hot Topic Race

The Weirdo Race

The Short and Our Adult Women Totally Look like Human Ten Year Olds Nudge Nudge Wink Wink Race.

The Tree Fuckers That Are Totally More At Peace And Harmony With Nature Even Though In Real Life Nature is a Cold Violent Harsh Place that Wants You Dead No Matter How Much You've Recycled and Would Have Killed Off These Fucking Hippies In a Single Winter race.

[shadzar]

careful with those undead erik or you might make some sort of Medieval Vampire Masquerade out of D&D...except for the whole detect evil and detect undead thing.

i would actually switch it though and go back to BD&D or OD&D and have JUST humans at core, and the rest optional or setting specific.

many people DO like humans only, so why cant other races be additional and depend on the world made by the DM or the setting?

but would this mean that ALL "monster" races that are similar to humans would need to be by default optional PC races?

would elves in a core Human only game be considered a monster like the gnome (RAWR!) in 4th?

borrowing form my memory of Rifts it had 3 types of characters:
PC: players can always use these for characters
NPC: players may NEVER use these for characters
OPC: players may use these for character at GM discretion, otherwise they are NPCs

that way a "monster" isnt defined, but even a Tarrasque is an NPC and never something the players can make a character from.

OPCs would be those: elf, dwarf, orc, half-orc, half-elf, halfling, gnome, etc.

this way "monster" is defined by the world you are in and its society, so that undead wouldnt see humans as monsters and humans wouldnt see undead as monsters if they cohabitate and accepted that vampires need to feed and it is a natural way of life, just like humans feeding on cows and pigs.

it opens MANY ranges of world creation for the game, and the players itself.

of course IF humans are the only core race, it doesnt mean they have to be included so a world could be entirely elves and orcs at war...the players get to choose which side they want to be on in this game. other animals exist that are the food of both elves and orcs, and the classic "monsters" like dragons exist that they both can befriend or both be at war with also....but humans never need appear.
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Play the game, not the rules.

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Swordslinger wrote:

Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.

Lewis Black wrote:

If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.

good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)

[shadzar]

[Doom]

If you're going to have more than one race, you may as well have elves. In fantasy games where there are no elves, there's inevitably one that that's presented, at least informally as "These are warglblasters. They're elves."
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[erik]

The closest my setup comes is either the automatons or the vampires being... elves. They have the most potential to be ancient beautiful people. Honestly I prefer them filling that niche than the tired old rag of tree people with pointed ears.

[nockermensch]

[Prak_Anima]

At the risk of sounding crazy, I'd say the standard races can stay because people identify with them. How many people have you seen and said "Well, except for the height, that's a fucking Dwarf right there," because I've seen quite a few. Hell, go to renn faires. You'll see stocky guys, with beards, who love beer and axes, and get off on norse and scottish stuff. They most likely love to play dwarves if/when they sit down to play D&D. I've seen people that fit the gnome/halfling profile, and I personally identify with goblins in a deeply pathetic, I-should-probably-get-therapy way.

Gygax's "Players shouldn't be allowed to play non-humans or women because it's an alien mindset they can't comprehend" essay is bullshit (and for more reasons than just it's sexist nature). Most nonhuman creatures in fantasy are just exaggerated human personalities. Elves are "noble savage" type wood dwelling pretty people. Gnomes are excitable, class clown types with a curiosity about everything. Halflings are gnomes, but with courage and thievery replacing class clowning. Dwarves are gruff, but stalwart companions with a greed that's just barely at acceptable levels. etc.
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[Foxwarrior]

Alien mindsets that can't be comprehended are the most interesting to figure out.

The races that you need to design for your core setting are the ones that need to be balanced against the game mechanics. If you've got a body slot system, you should have races for a fair number of body shapes. If you've got social mechanics, you should have races for different modes of communication. You probably want guidelines or examples for mildly divergent races, too, so that people who want Elves, Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, Goblins, Gnolls, Elans, Aasimar, Eladrin, and Kobolds in their setting can have them.

But then, when Koumei suggested that people shouldn't be allowed to play Phantasmal Killers, I statted up a suitable race for doing just that, so my opinion is probably slightly more divergent from the norm than usual.

[nockermensch]

[Prak_Anima]

The essay is in the first edition PHB or DMG, can't remember which. Not sure if it's online anywhere.
Edit: Found it

[nockermensch]

[sigma999]

We don't need dragon-headed pieces of shit running around with breasts.

I don't care what your half-breed-whatever loldragonrape fetish is, LEAVE IT OUT OF THE PHB.


EDIT:

[nockermensch]

[ishy]

If the only races in the game are humans I'm going to feel uncomfortable hating only a certain demographic of the human race. While if you include stuff like elves, well everybody hates them already so that is very socially acceptable. And hating all humans as a non humanoid is also more acceptable than hating just the 'white humans' in a fantasy game.
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[nockermensch]

[Leress]

[erik]

It seems expected that there will be some racism in a game with actual different races, especially if they are at odds with each other. It might not be the norm, but it will probably come up.

And yes, I think it does feel a bit less kitchy when it is vampires hating ant people rather than light brown humans hating dark brown humans.

[shadzar]

[OgreBattle]

[nockermensch]