Making evil communities without making them totally evil.

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

kzt
Knight-Baron
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 2:59 pm

Post by kzt »

Murtak wrote:Remove them, but keep the same structures and you will end up with evil fuckers again in short order. Additionally you can both create and encourage evil and you can hide evil from those making decisions, making it easier and easier to get more and more evil. But the basic idea is this: The structure itself can promote evil.
But do the people involved see what they do as evil? Or do they all have some sort of elaborate justification?
User avatar
Stahlseele
King
Posts: 5975
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by Stahlseele »

Doesn't need to be all that elaborate to begin with . .
Live=Evil
Judge Death from Judge Dredd "Fame" made the deduction that since all evil was done by living beings, all living beings were evil. Nay, life itself had to be evil.
And somewhere else i had found a race of undead or dead who were genuinely happy being that way and remembered being alive as having been awfull . . So, of course, ouot they go on a grand crusade to kill every living being so they can have a nice unlife themselves too . .
Last edited by Stahlseele on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
User avatar
Murtak
Duke
Posts: 1577
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Murtak »

kzt wrote:
Murtak wrote:Remove them, but keep the same structures and you will end up with evil fuckers again in short order. Additionally you can both create and encourage evil and you can hide evil from those making decisions, making it easier and easier to get more and more evil. But the basic idea is this: The structure itself can promote evil.
But do the people involved see what they do as evil? Or do they all have some sort of elaborate justification?
That probably depends on the size of the structure. The larger the structure the easier it is to not see what is happening. Generally though they probably do not think of themselves as evil at all. The ones making the decisions can rationalize their behavious with a mixture of "well, this is what I was hired to do", "if I don't do this someone else will", "if I don't do this the leader of section C will be promoted and he is more even ruthless than me" and of course they won't ever actually have to see any of the consequences for themselves. And the guys actually doing the dirty work are stuck between "I need this money" and "there is thousands of people who'd replace me if I as much as complain". If there is still hesitation propaganda will do the trick.
Murtak
User avatar
tussock
Prince
Posts: 2937
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:28 am
Location: Online
Contact:

Post by tussock »

The church always rationalised its evil. They said all suffering was born from sin, so if you were suffering it wasn't their doing, it was your fault, for sinning. So pay your fucking tithe already, your kids are only screaming with hunger because they're sinners, and we need a little more gold to help wash that sin away. Look, I'm not suffering, I'm not hungry, it must be true!

You know Greece, same basic thing with the bankers now. It's not us, it's you, you sinned, your suffering is your own fault, so cut some more pensions already, it's the only way to get pure. I'm not suffering, I got a big fat raise, it must be true!
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
hyzmarca
Prince
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 pm

Post by hyzmarca »

My inspiration for evil societies is Gone with the Wind. Just looking at Tara, it's easy to forget that slavery is evil.

I really don't think evil leadership or shitty institutions are sufficient to make a society as a whole evil. You need deeply held cultural prejudices that the population simply takes for granted. Once you've engrained things like slavery, racism, and sexism into the culture, change requires a great deal of effort on a society-wide scale over the course of decades.

If the problem is just an evil person or an evil institution, one yahoo with a bomb and some guts can take it down. While that's great for heroic fiction, it ultimately falls flat in terms of crafting a lasting antagonistic society.

I mean, really, Oceania could be taken down fairly easily due to the centralization of power and heavy reliance on propaganda (Boot on Face Forever is an overly optimistic prediction). You just need to decapitate the Inner Party. Ending Jim Crow was quite a bit more difficult because it was based on popular sentiments and had massive support.
User avatar
Murtak
Duke
Posts: 1577
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Murtak »

Ok then, how would one yahoo with a bomb take down a global corporation? Say, Halliburton.
Murtak
kzt
Knight-Baron
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 2:59 pm

Post by kzt »

Umm, why do you want to take down an oil field supply company?
Korwin
Duke
Posts: 2055
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:49 am
Location: Linz / Austria

Post by Korwin »

Not why. How.
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
kzt
Knight-Baron
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 2:59 pm

Post by kzt »

If you destroy any corporate HQ in the middle of a business day it's likely that the ensuing chaos will destroy the corp, or otherwise change it beyond recognition.
User avatar
Stahlseele
King
Posts: 5975
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by Stahlseele »

How?
Care about Collateral Damage?
If not, Terrorism, pure and simple.
Blow up an oil tanker.
Or Oil Rig Plattform.
Get pulicity using oil stained cute little animals.
Make them appear callous and corrupt(well, more anyway)
Make it seem like their numbers don't add up at all.
And then go and make people disappear.
Either to make it look like they took the money and ran, or to scare them.
Maybe both. Maybe to get other people into their positions.

Shadowrun calling!
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.

Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Stubbazubba
Knight-Baron
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 6:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Stubbazubba »

Taking down a company is easy, just make them have a big enough fiasco, lose enough money-making potential, and all other investment opportunities become much more lucrative, so investors will sell their stock in the company at a loss due to the uncertainty of that company's profit potential, and voila, company is yesterday's news. A single bomb may or may not be enough to do the trick, depending on the physical centralization of value-adding assets, be that visionary management (See Apple's stock after the resignation of Steve Jobs), physical capital, or legal rights (imagine the hit Google would take in ad revenues if SOPA/PIPA had passed). With huge, multi-national corporations, it's difficult for any one thing to do 'em in, so it might take a series of them.
User avatar
Murtak
Duke
Posts: 1577
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Murtak »

I have yet to see evidence that causing oil spills even hurts oil companies. It certainly won't destroy them. Especially not if it's terrorism, as they'll get to play the victim card. Heck, Halliburton obviously bribed politicians for war contracts and then obviously harmed soldiers through more than mere incompetence and they weren't even investigated.

And even if someone were to investigate a corporation they are in an excellent position to have someone take the fall. The entire structure is quite resilient once it stands. Someone spill a thousand tons of oil? Obviously a single person did it out of personal greed. Everyone below that guy was just following orders, everyone above him only got to see forged records. They won't even have to lie about it. They never even have to order the guy to cut corners. It is engrained in the very organisational culture. And besides, anyone not willing to cut corners won't get that high anyway. And then one guy takes the fall, a couple million are spend on propaganda and they go right back to earning billions. If anyone catches them blatantly lying, so what? The guy who makes the statements is just doing his job. The "facts" he is spouting come from the same falsified reports the leaders read. He literally does not know any better. Once again no one even has to lie.

The organisation as a whole is a psychotic, criminally insane behemoth that does not care about anything except profit. If it was a being we'd lock it away or kill it outright. But the individual members are at worst cutthroats who never get to see the victims of their actions and often even try to assuage their conscience by donating vast sums of money to charities. Many might be pretty honest or even kind people who are just a bit naive about who they work for.

Go right ahead, throw bombs at them. They'll get insurance payouts and the added media profile will be worth far more to them than the loss of some replaceable employees. Blow up a refinery and they get to rebuild it better than new from insurance money and gonverment assistance. Kill a CEO and another will take his place. Killing a dozen CEOs and the next one will be a figurehead, well paid for the risk he takes, while others make the real decisions. Seriously, have a look at the real world. What global corporation, government or military has actually been destroyed by the actions of anything less than another organisation? There aren't even all that many that have been destroyed by anything of their own size.
Murtak
Stubbazubba
Knight-Baron
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 6:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Stubbazubba »

Enron comes to mind, but in general, isolated incidents do not destroy organizations. That's one of the benefits of being organized, I suppose. As I said, when you're dealing with something as well entrenched as a multi-national corporation and/or government, it will take a series of huge losses, not just one, because otherwise it can re-organize itself a bit and bounce back without much actual loss. But if multiple oil rigs are attacked or compromised, managers and CEOs are blackmailed into resignation and/or outright assassinated, and the media gets its hands on evidence of criminally corrupt business practices, in a coordinated effort, as Stahlseele described, then they won't just be bleeding, they'll start hemorrhaging, and investors will jump ship. I believe that would bring it down, unless it's a monopoly, in which case no one else has anywhere to go for the same product. There aren't very many examples of this happening because, yeah, no one with a lot of resources takes on a corporation like that, because corporations are designed to be tough to crack, and corporate terrorism fails a cost-benefit analysis almost anytime, in an era when cutting costs is the key to profit.
Last edited by Stubbazubba on Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
kzt
Knight-Baron
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 2:59 pm

Post by kzt »

Corporations depend on governments to protect them. The reason why people don't attack large companies is that many people with guns will start looking into what is going on. It's really, really hard to organize a large-scale operation without leaving clues all over the place.

Like the idea of attacking oil rigs. Oil rigs are in the ocean. So you can choose to sail their in a boat or fly there in helicopter. Both of which are going to be tracked by radar coming and going. Then you have to do something once you get there. Oil rigs are very large steel structures with about 100 people plus multiple service boats around them.

How do you intend to do anything without a pretty good chance of a Coast Guard aircraft showing up? Your helicopter or boat isn't going make a clean getaway with a Coast Guard jet following it at 10 miles range.
hyzmarca
Prince
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 pm

Post by hyzmarca »

Prak_Anima wrote:Which is why I like the Vashar. They want to kill the gods (yes, I'm an uber-militant atheist that faps to anything related to killing god blah blah blah as pointed out by someone I used to talk to online). They could be like Luthor in the Man of Steel storyarch that got reprinted actually titled Luthor, wanting to kill the gods because they think belief and worship demean sentient life, that the gods treat sapients as children.

But they're not. They're two year olds who rape each other in a pile of shit crawling with maggots.
It wouldn't be that hard to take the core of them (brutal, revenge-obsessed, freedom-loving libertarians who are more violent towards their own people than towards strangers) and make something interesting out of them.

The First Man


If he had a name, it was Man. He needed no other because there were no others of his kind. The gods made him to serve them and he did so without question for thirty times three-hundred years. He loved his creators. He toiled at their command. He venerated them every waking moment. He even worshiped them in his dreams. Their whims were the beginning and end of his world and he was happy, at first.

Over time the First Man grew lonely. The gods had each other for companionship. The animals had companions. Even the demons in the Abyss had companions. Yet he was all alone. And so it came to pass in the First Man asked the gods to give him a companion.

The Wise One heard his plea said that the gods should create a Woman in the image of the goddesses. But the other gods were filled with rage and would not hear him.

"Are we not good enough for you?" they asked their Man. "Don't you love us?" "Is our infinite grace insufficient for you?"

Cowed, the First Man fell to his knees and professed his love to his creators. "You are more than enough" he said. "You're are all I'll ever need." In his heart he felt sadness. He didn't understand the emotion then, for he had never felt it before, but it would grow.

For thirty times three-hundred years he toiled for the gods. He venerated them. He worshipped them. But every day the sadness grew in his heart.

Vasha

One day, while tending the fields of ambrosia that stretched from shore-to-shore in the before-age as was his duty, the Man found a woman. By the standard of Second Men, she was ugly beyond imagining. To simply look upon the Obyrith would shatter the soul of a lesser being, but the First Man was more perfect than the imitations that came after him. Rather than being repulsed by the demon as an inferior man would be, he felt compassion.

"I am Vasha," she said. "I have been overthrown by my evil slaves and cast up into the harsh light of the gods. Now I shall surely die."

Her wounds were great and her poison life-blood spilled out into the ground. It withered the divine crops and created a dead-zone where nothing would ever grow again.

The Man knew that she would die if he did not save her. He also knew that the gods would want her to die. Her very existence was anathema to them and she undid their works simply be being.He knew this, and he acted. For the first time in his long life he called upon the gods power to serve his will alone and her wounds were healed. The gods knew immediately.



"Slay her," they commanded him. "She is evil. She will bring ruin to all of our works."

He refused. They raged.

"Slay her." "No." "Slay her." "No." "Slay her." "Never."

The gods tried to smite the First Man, but Vasha hid him in the dark places where they cannot see. As the gods rage above them, they grew to love each other.

For three years the gods unleashed their fury upon the Earth and for three years the two loved each other in their hiding place. The Wise One intervened and calmed his siblings and they returned to Heaven unsatisfied.

The First Man remained in hiding for another three years and when he came out he carried three horns. " I repent! he cried. I have slain Vashar and brought her horns as tribute. Please forgive me."

"See," the Wise One said to his brothers. "I told you that he'd come back."

The gods accepted the demon's horns and forgave their wayward creation, but they made him suffer a terrible penance. The gods agonized him for three years and three years more before they allowed him to return to his duties.

He served the gods faithfully for another thirty-three years and then disappeared. "Where did he go?" the gods asked. "Where is our Man?"

"Demons are vile things," The Wise One said, "but they understand revenge. One of her kin must have unmade him in anger." The other gods saw the wisdom in his words and agreed. Then The Wise One went to stoke the Divine Fire, lest his siblings see that an Ember was missing, while the other gods went back to their bickering.

Eventually the gods forgot about the Man, all but The Wise One who saw the Man steal the Ember but was wise enough to keep his mouth shut.

The City That Was


The First Man used the stolen Ember to burn an layer of the Abyss. In the blink of an eye, the Divine Fire reduced infinity to ash. From that ash the First Man and his mutilated demon bride constructed the City That Was. For three-hundred times three-hundred years it was a paradise where no one suffered and all were happy.

It couldn't last. The gods discovered their creation's treachery and he could not hide from them. His soul was destroyed and so was his wife. The City was returned to ash. Some of the First Children escaped the destruction and hid, Vasha taught them about the secret places where the gods cannot see. Then the gods decreed that all created things shall die in time and the First Children began to wither in their hiding places.


------

Suffering[

The Vashar believe that existence is suffering because the gods are dicks. They also believe that death is suffering because the gods are dicks. And undeath is just more of the same. The concept of unjust suffering forced on the Vashar (and all people) by cruel and capricious gods informs every aspect of their culture.

At the same time they believe that suffering breeds strength and that the endurance of unjust suffering is the defining trait of the Vashar as a people. At it's core, the Vashar civilization is one of stoic Martyrs who are expected to endure the worst pains and indignities for the greater good.

Unlike other races who are conventionally classified as evil, the Vashar do not torture their enemies. They see the endurance of suffering as a privilege, not a punishment. As such, they prefer to kill quickly and cleanly. They reserve the torture for their children.

Rites of Passage


The Vashar are not cruel and uncaring monsters. They truly love their children. But one cannot become part of Vashar society without enduring pain and humiliation. Ritualized torture is a part of most Vashar rites of passage. These tortures are highly regimented and have been refined over centuries of practice to be as safe as possible while still inflicting the maximum amount of pain and distress. Debilitating injury is rare and death unheard of. The adults justify it as a necessary experience for every true Vashar. The children, for their part, look forward to it even as they dread it. Each new torture brings more respect and privileges.

Marriage
The Gods created marriage for the Second Races but the Vashar had no trouble appropriating it as their own. Indeed, they had something resembling marriage in the City That Was, though it did not have a name and lacked formality.

Unlike the Second Races, however, they do not limit marriage to one man and one woman. They marry in all combinations. Men are allowed to marry men. Women are allowed to marry women. Polygyny and polyandry are both commonly practiced.

The ideal Vasharan marriage has three adults, two of one sex and one of the other.

Vasharan marriages are never exclusive. Even within polygamous unions, they see adultery as an ideal to be embraced. If for no other reason than to give the finger to the gods.

Reproduction

The Vashars place little value on biological paternity and maternity. They fuck freely and adopt freely. They even adopt the children of other races. Instead they emphasize a concept called spiritual parentage. They believe that a child's soul is malleable and that shaping a child's soul is more important than creating his body.

In keeping with this philosophy they practice partible paternity and maternity. Every man within a marriage is equally the child's father and every woman equally the child's mother. Biology alone confers no special rights.

Everyone who endures the necessary rites of passage is considered to be a Vashar adult, even those who aren't biologically Vashar. Abduction and adoption is a common part of Vashar warfare.

Relationships with other races.
As members of the First Race, The Vashar know that they are superior. This is as a much a fundamental part of their culture as the belief that the gods are evil. The Second Races are inferior creatures. They were designed to be slaves to the gods and their souls will break when exposed to the terrible truth of the universe. Through suffering, their slave-souls might be transformed into true Vasharan souls, but most are so indoctrinated that they don't want that. Killing them would be a mercy if not for the fact that the afterlife is controlled by the gods. Destroying their souls is a mercy.

The Vashar can and often do tolerate and trade with the Second Races, but the obliteration of the worshipers of the gods is a long-term priority for them. When the Vashar Crusade, they rarely leave survivors.

Laws
The Vashar have no formally codified system of laws. Instead they rely on common law and tradition. Minor disputes are usually settled by qualified lay judge while major crimes are handled either by a professional judge or an unruly mob, depending on the location.
As the Vashar believe that suffering is a privilege rather than a punishment, serious crimes such as rape (except during approved rituals and festivals) and pre-meditated murder usually carry the death penalty. A swift clean cut to the throat with a sharp knife is the preferred method of execution. Lesser crimes are generally punished with a monetary fine or proportionate compensation.


The legal protections provided to non-Vashar vary from community to community. In large cities most races have equal protection during peace time (all bets are off during a crusade), but there are still isolated communities where it's perfectly acceptable to kill a second man for pure entertainment.


Slavery is illegal in all forms. The Vashar has an innate racial abhorrence of the very concept.

Gender Relations

A great many Vashar folk heroes were highly capable females, including Vasha herself. But unlike the Drow they aren't controlled by a psychotic man-hating goddess. As a result Vashar society strives for gender equality. Men and women are considered equal in all respects. Women can become warriors. Men can carry children with magical aid.

Afterlife

Because the Vashar believe that the gods are malicious, they refused to go to any afterlife ruled by the divine. Ages ago, a powerful wizard created the Ilkanac , a giant soul-gem enchanted to trap the souls of all dead Vashar. The Ilkanac resides in the hidden Vashar city of Hetrot, the closest thing they have to a holy land. Vashar children are magically linked to the gem shortly after birth with distinctive enchanted tattoos. As the child grows, these tattoos are touched up and added to.

The Vashar believe that when the Great Crusade is finished and all the gods are dead, they can overturn the God's decree and be reborn into immortal bodies, as they once were. When that time comes all of the Second Races will either be converted into Vashar or destroyed.
Last edited by hyzmarca on Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17345
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

Well that's making it into my next game. Nice.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
hyzmarca
Prince
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 pm

Post by hyzmarca »

Prak_Anima wrote:Well that's making it into my next game. Nice.
I've been reading Green Antarctica lately. It's been giving me ideas that I can't get out of my head.

----------

The history of the triangle marriage in Vashar culture can be traced back to Calum the Conqueror at the end of the Vashar First Era.

Though modern Hetrots are staunchly republican, the city-state of the First Era was nominally ruled by a hereditary monarch who claimed direct lineal decent from the city's founder, Hetr the Half-Demon. However, the real power was wielded by the Cult of Orcus. The Priests of Orcus used their monopoly on Necromancy and the near universal fear of the god's retribution to control the city's elite. Those with money could pay to have their souls preserved in their unliving corpses, but only if the Priests allowed it.

Calum's father, whose name is not found in any surviving documents, was a notorious opponent of the Cult. Over the years of his reign he attempted to push through many reforms that would limited their power, but these reforms all failed due to the Cult's overwhelming support amongst the merchants and aristocrats.

By tradition, no undead could hold a lifetime office in Hetrot and that tradition still holds true today. However, the late King was expected to select his heir and then sit on the council of advisors for a number of years. But when Calum's father died of advanced age the Cult refused to raise him.

With the late king unable to give his assent to one of his sons, the supporters of the two brothers clashed in the streets. Calum was popular amongst the warriors and generally seen as a strong and ruthless leader. His brother Atum was seen as wise and compassionate and had a great deal of support from the populace and the aristocracy. As days went on without any clear succession, brawls turned to riots and riots turned to slaughter. The brothers themselves refused to back down. Each believed himself the superior King.

On the Sixth day of rioting the brothers jointly announced that they would meet each other in the arena and settle their dispute in front of the entire city.

The arena was packed so tightly that day that some unfortunate people were literally crushed by the press of bodies. Everyone showed up to witness the duel between the brothers. They all expected it to be bloody and most expected Calum to win. Atum was loved, but no one ever mistook him for a great warrior. The Priests of Orcus stood in in the Judges corner, theoretically neutral. By agreement they would crown the winner, demonstrating that they were the true authorities in the city-state.

The brothers approached each other with swords drawn but they did not fight. Instead they cut each others' clothes off, dropped their weapons, and exchanged wedding vows.

They vigorously consummated their union before the stunned crowd while their soldiers in the arena slaughtered the necromancer priests. By the time they worked their way through all of the positions and the witnesses began dispersing, the Temples of Orcus were all on fire and the purge was well on its way. By sunrise there wasn't a single Orcus worshipper in Hetrot, alive or undead.


With the local crisis settled the new Kings of Hetrot turned their sights towards the republican city-state of Jensot. Jensot's Senate had slighted Calum many years ago, and that was sufficient pretext for war. In truth, Atum desired Jensot's gem mines and the expertise of it's wizards, who were known to be experts in soul-trapping. Jensot had the largest soul market outside the Hells.

The Jensots were confident. Though teleportation into the hidden cities is impossible, portal travel is not. Jensot's wizards and Parnot's Ur-Priests had recently constructed a secret portal between the two hidden cities. Even if one was seiged, the other could keep it supplied. No one had the troops necessary to successfully beseige both of the ancient allies simultaneously.

As the months wore on Calum's troops grew weary while Jensot's remained fresh. The diseases began to set in among both forces because neither had a sufficient number of healers, but Calums were harder hit. After four months the Jensots knew that the siege couldn't last any longer and sent the good news to Parnot. Parnot's queen replied by sending more supplies and suggesting that the two allies should counter-attack Hetrot once the siege lifted.

Jensot's Senate agreed and they made plans to move Parnot troops into Jensot via portal, in preparation for the counter-offensive.

Half way through the fourt month Calum's soldiers began to dismantle their seigeworks and pack for the journey home. Meanwhile, Parnot troops began pouring into Jensot through the portal and the allies prepared to run the fleeing Hetorts down.

The Jensot defenders were blissfully unaware when their Parnot allies murdered them in their sleep and opened the gates.

Come sunrise Queen Aelun of Parnot and the Brother-Kings of Hetrot was consummating their triple-marriage in Jensot's before their new subjects, including the severed heads of the Senators.

Thus the greatest Vasharan city-states were united and the second era began.

It was the combined efforts of Hetrot necromancers, Jensot soul-thieves, and Parnot Ur-Priests that eventually created the great soul-gem known as the Ilkanac and freed the Vashar from the threat of the god's afterlife.
Last edited by hyzmarca on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17345
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

Every fantasy setting should include gay arena incest sex and threesomes.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
TheFlatline
Prince
Posts: 2606
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:43 pm

Post by TheFlatline »

Good stuff on the Vashar. Reminded me of the Cain cycle a little from old school Vampire.
hyzmarca
Prince
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 pm

Post by hyzmarca »

TheFlatline wrote:Good stuff on the Vashar. Reminded me of the Cain cycle a little from old school Vampire.
Yes, I noticed that I was taking inspiration from Vampire once I got to the First City, and quickly changed its name to the City That Was, which I think sounds cooler, anyway.

The Cain cycle is a decent source of inspiration for things like this.

--------------

One common question amongst my colleges is the nature and significance of the bright red marks commonly seen on the heads of Vasharan women. During my time in Tamaranth, I had the dubious pleasure of witnessing a rite known as the Scarifice of Vasha.

The ritual, I am told, was designed to imitate the scalping of their Vasha as alluded to in their creation myth. In ancient times this consisted of simply removing the scalp and leaving the bone fully exposed. And, indeed, surviving moments and artwork do show supposedly legendary beauties with exposed skulls instead of hair.

Over time this practice was transformed into the more modest yet more horrific version used today.

The girl, who was about nine years old, was attached to a heavy steal frame via a system bolts, manacles, and leather straps. The restraints were tight enough to prevent all movement and threatened to impede circulation if not closely monitored.

Once the girl was restrained she was shaved bald and an attendant began making careful marks on her head.

An Ur-Priest, specially trained to perform the ritual, used an obsidian scaple to carefully carve open the skin of her head, which was then pulled back to expose the skull.

The attendant then delivered a platter of carving tools and a set of scrolls containing the Songs of Vasha, a series of Epic poems written during the first era.

The Ur-Priest carefully and precisely carved the poems into the child's skull. She was awake the whole time and no efforts were made to muffle her cries and screams.

The Ur-Priest needed a magnifying lens to properly apply the tiny script using his tiny tools and the process lasted well into the night with the Ur-Priest taking occasional breaks.

When everyone retired for the evening, the child was left in the fframe. The attendant cleaned her and gave her water, but otherwise she was left alone with her agony.

The next morning it started again. In total, the carving took three days and when it was over all five epic poems were etched into the bone of her skull.

Then they set up a contraption that slowly dripped a tiny amount of molten gold in the the carvings. This process was faster, but it still took up most of the fourth day.

When the gold was fully cooled and hardened the Ur-Priest stretched her scalp back over her head and sutured it closed. He finished by applying a dark red paste to the wounds, a combination of dye and irritant which ensured highly visible bright-red scars would be formed.

Vasharan women proudly display these scars as a symbol of their endurance.

----------
Sacking Day

Sacking day is an ancient tradition in Tamaranth.

Tamaranth was the first colony established by the Vashar on the Prime Material Plane. The Vashar of the time had no clue what they would find out here and were full of prideful arrogance. Conflict with the local orc tribes was inevitable and the colonists drastically underestimated their foes.

The war started out as standard raids, as orcs are won't to do. The Vashar responded with excessive violence which provoked the plains and forest Orc tribes to all unite against them. And thus the sack.

Two thirds of the colonists were killed in the sack. Most of the city was burned to the ground. Many were taken as slaves. But the orcs, though brutal, didn't practice genocide. Some they just raped and left behind, or allowed to flee. This was a mistake.

A full army was sent out of the Hidden Lands to wipe out the offending Orc tribes. A few escaped to the mountains where they remain to this day. Most were simply butchered and their children taken to replace the Vashar's losses.

Even today, the native inhabitants of Tamaranth bear strong orcish features. Where most Vashar have pale white skin, the Tamaranthese run a gamut from white to green to solid black and their lower jaws tend to be unusually wide.


Sacking day is a celebration of this defeat. To the Tamaranthese it is both a stark enjoinder against blind arrogance and a celebration of their unique heritage.

The festival traditionally falls on the day of the winter solstice, though the actual sack probably occurred in November or perhaps late October.

In the weeks leading up to Sacking Day mock fortifications and raised throughout the city and decorated with impractical ornamentation. The entire town pitches in to construct the Great Wall in the square, which is torn down at midnight on Sacking Day Eve.

For the next 24 hours the laws of the city (excepting those against arson and murder) are suspended. Rowdy young men and women dressed as absurdly stereotypical orcs loot, pillage, and rape their way through the streets.

Stolen goods are traditionally returned the next day, but that doesn't always happen and the authorities turn a blind eye to such things unless the goods are exceptionally valuable.

Essentially, it's an excuse for teenagers to get drunk and do something stupid (but not too stupid).

Those who have vital jobs and cannot afford to be accosted by hooligans are issued bright pink armbands by the city council. Thankfully, I was able to acquire one in the days leading up the the celebration. My chastity would not have survived otherwise.
Last edited by hyzmarca on Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Prak
Serious Badass
Posts: 17345
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Prak »

like I said, this is all making it into my next campaign. It's exactly what I'd want to see in a source book the Vashar appeared in
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
MGuy
Prince
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:18 am
Location: Indiana

Post by MGuy »

The four day ritual thing for the girls seems a bit lengthy and lethal for a simple marking ceremony. Is it something only a few females actually go through?
The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
If you want a game modded right you have to mod it yourself.
hyzmarca
Prince
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 pm

Post by hyzmarca »

MGuy wrote:The four day ritual thing for the girls seems a bit lengthy and lethal for a simple marking ceremony. Is it something only a few females actually go through?
Magic.

The line between safe hazing rituals and lethal torture moves rather drastically when you have magic healing available.

There is a reason why the ceremony is performed by a guy who has the ability to cast healing spells. Vasharan healers have developed an extensive collection of spells for the purpose of making these ceremonies safe while prolonging them.

They have a Cure Wounds equivalent that controls bleeding, regulates blood pressure, controls blood sugar, protects organs, hydrates, and generally improves health without actually closing the wound.

The child is monitored 24/7, kept hydrated, and otherwise taken care of.

If reliable magical healing wasn't available then the ceremony would be delayed or a less dangerous alternative would be performed.


In addition, that was the rich-people version of the ceremony. Most folk can't afford the gold or the full carving. The peasants get a the abridged version of the Songs, and that doesn't take nearly as long.


The Vashar have spent a very long time refining these ceremonies with the goal of maximizing pain and duration. They're not sadists or masochists, but the endurance of such prolonged agony is a matter of pride and social status. As such, Vasharan parents want their children to endure the worst possible torments during their initiations, and those can afford it will pay for it.

The ceremony described is actually rather mild compared to some of them. It isn't all torture all the time, of course. Outside of these ceremonies Vasharan families are a lot like normal human families. But the average Vashar has gone through some truly horrific torture by the time he reaches adulthood and the ultra-rich kids have been subjected to some things that would make lesser devils cringe.


And honestly, I toned it down from the original version, which I felt was too squicky to post.

--------------------------------------

The Vashar have no aversion to the fiends of the lower planes. They are rightfully cautious in their dealings, however. While the Vashar idealize demons and devils, they also understand how duplicitous and dangerous the fiends are.

During my studies with Vashar Diabolists and Demonologists I have learned more about the lower planes than many man should wish to know. Their studies of fiendish psyches are surprisingly complete and terribly detailed. It is probably true that these professionals understand the fiends better than the fiends themselves do.

Because of their long study and their strong desire to associate with those beings who are inimical to the god's work, they have become adept at discovering the exceptions.

There are few fiends who possess something resembling honor and fewer still capable of basic compassion, yet the Vashar have located and cataloged many of them. In the infinite infinitudes of the lower planes it is perhaps inevitable that such fiends arise from time to time. Some of them may even come close to being Good, through any truly Good fiend would destroy itself for being the abomination that it is.

There are even fiends who are capable of genuine romance, I am saddened to say. Though the Vashar lament that such beings are too few in number, I am inclined to believe that one is too many.

I will not give pollute your minds with the details. I will simply say that I never want to see anything like that ever again.
Last edited by hyzmarca on Wed May 16, 2012 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheFlatline
Prince
Posts: 2606
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:43 pm

Post by TheFlatline »

hyzmarca wrote:The Vashar have spent a very long time refining these ceremonies with the goal of maximizing pain and duration. They're not sadists or masochists, but the endurance of such prolonged agony is a matter of pride and social status. As such, Vasharan parents want their children to endure the worst possible torments during their initiations, and those can afford it will pay for it.
I almost want a piece of jewelry or ornamental tattoo/scarring somewhere else to denote each hour the child stayed conscious and screaming or managing to endure/defy the pain.

Yes, your daughter endured unimaginable pain, because the Gods are f*cks. But your daughter *bore* the pain (or fought the pain, or whatever is considered noble), while others succumbed to it and let it claim them temporarily. And she deserves to be recognized, even celebrated.
hyzmarca
Prince
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:07 pm

Post by hyzmarca »

TheFlatline wrote:
hyzmarca wrote:The Vashar have spent a very long time refining these ceremonies with the goal of maximizing pain and duration. They're not sadists or masochists, but the endurance of such prolonged agony is a matter of pride and social status. As such, Vasharan parents want their children to endure the worst possible torments during their initiations, and those can afford it will pay for it.
I almost want a piece of jewelry or ornamental tattoo/scarring somewhere else to denote each hour the child stayed conscious and screaming or managing to endure/defy the pain.


They probably do. Though the symbols used would need a high information density, there is only so much room on the body, after all.

--------------------------------------------------
Religion

The Vashar are not entire without religion. They reject the gods, yes, but they revere their ancestors. Most Vashar souls rest without the great gem in the hidden city of Hetrot and Vasharan clerics have devised rituals to commune with them, to offer them comfort, and to seek their advise.

Vasharan temples resemble shops rather than places of worship. Inside you can find display cases full of symbolic goods, including money, food clothes, homes, dildos, tools, books and more. When these ghost goods are ritually burned, spiritual copies are delivered to the target soul within the Ilkanac.

The magic fires that carry the ghost goods to their intended recipients can also be used to communicate with any soul trapped within the Ilkanac. While the ghost goods are sold at cost, the clerics sell access to the flames by the minute, for the demand is very high. There are always long lines of people waiting to speak to their loved ones and never enough flames for them all.

Of course, those with access to large sums of wealth don't have to settle for speaking through the flames. Resurrection is available to those who can afford it, as is transformation into an undead.

For cultural heroes death is more of a vacation than an end. Great generals and warriors will often be resurrected during times of war scientists and philosophers will be brought back so that they can impart their wisdom on a new generation. Some celebrities will be resurrected by individuals rather than the government. Ancient actors will sometimes be brought back to perform in a new play. Long-dead athletes may be revived to revitalize their old team. Whenever there is money involved to justify the expense, you can probably find someone willing to pay for the skills of a long-dead celebrity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Harrowing

In keeping with their ancestor reverence, the Vashar put a great deal of effort into retrieving lost or stolen souls. No such effort was as sweeping or as epic as the First Crusade, more popularly known as the Harrowing.

While Later Crusades were aimed at the gods and their followers, the First Crusade was launched with the soul objective of rescuing damned souls from the lower planes.

Azduel the Harrower, the son of Calum, Atum, and Aelun, began preparing for the crusade in the years leading up to the Ilkanac's completion. His spymasters and diplomats made contacts throughout the lower planes. Pacts were formed. Deals were signed. Some opportunistic fiends saw his plans as a chance to advance their own ambitions and topple their rivals. Others just did it for shits and giggles. But none knew the true lengths he was willing to go to.

In the year following the completion of the grand soul gem Aduel personally led a lightning raid on the Prison Plane, with the support of demon, devil, and Yugoloth alike. While the fiends served as a distraction, traitorous Demodands allowed his team access to the fortress where the Vasharan souls were kept.

The group unexpectedly encountered a Tartarian Wyrm, which was tasked with defending the Vasharan souls' prison. Legend has it that Azduel alone stared down the worm and took the brunt of its assault while his Lieutenant, Gaisha the Silent, later known as Gaisha Dragonrider, snuck around to his flank and crawled into his excretory portal.

The tale is somewhat fanciful in that Azduel almost certain had the support of his team, which included the most powerful Vasharan wizards and priests of the day, as he distracted the beast. Examination of the beast's remains shows a clear and obvious channel between its intestines and its shredded heart, however, which confirms Gaisha's part in the battle.

Azduel had his necromancers raise the dragon as a zombie and gave it to Gaisha for her part in its destruction. It served as her mount for the remainder of the Crusade, until her death during the ill-fated raid on Mount Celestia. Now the beast serves as guardian of the Ilkanac in the Temple of Hetrot alone with the zombified remains of the Radiant Dragon that slew Gaisha.

Azduels Harrowing expanded to all of the Lower Planes his fiendish allies grew in power as their rivals were toppled in the conflict and they fulfilled their ends of the bargains quite nicely. Millions of Vasharan souls were rescued over the course of the Crusade. Unfortunately, Azduel's parents were not among them. It was this desire to rescue them that led him to overextend himself and assault the upper planes were he had far less support. The Crushing defeat in Celestia ended the Crusade before every missing soul could be accounted for. Though his goal was only partially achieved, Azduel is still seen as one of the Vashar's greatest heroes for his role in saving so many. Gaisha is more popular, though. She is the one who crawled up the ass of a dragon.
Last edited by hyzmarca on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Post Reply