Why is everyone trying to get me to play Earthdawn?

[K]

For the record, K is allowed his opinion on blood elves, drow, dark Eldar, and whatever the fuck else he wants.

Clearly, you have a huge emotional investment in my opinion of Earthdawn and pretending that you don't shames the hundreds of words you've written while attempting to correct me of my opinion.

That being said, thinking anyone could confuse the Dark Eldar and drow means that you don't really know much about either. The dozen-ish drow novels and half dozen supplements on them are pretty interesting as source materials for alternate dark settings, and I suggest you pick them up.

I can't really recommend the Dark Eldar stuff, sadly. 40K stuff can be an amusing read, but it's not really good even as a cautionary tale for designers of settings.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Earthdawn was the first game I looked at and said, 'Wow, elves are cool'. This is in contrast to 2e D&D, where they were basically Santa's little helpers.

[Avoraciopoctules]

How easy would it be to use Earthdawn for more generic games? Let's say I want to tell the story of a posse of adventurers who brave the perils of the Fane of Dicko the Genie in order to free him and make wishes for asymmetric power, then destabilize the political situation in the land of the NotArabs when they start using their new powers.

Is there anything impeding me from running a game where people make their way through a dungeon full of ridiculous traps and monsters, having capricious genies that could give you a bunch of fancy powers and/or set you on fire when you convince them to give you a wish, and then somehow modeling the interactions between whatever organizations the PCs create once they can call water from the sand and explode things with their laser eyebeams?

[Lokathor]

You might have to ignore the rules about raw casting giving you a chance to be horror marked.

Other than that, no, there's nothing stopping you.

[Fuchs]

Windlings: female to male ratio 1-10 or so. Mating for life. And they usually have only one kid per marriage.

Yeah, whoever wrote that shit had no clue about mathematics. There would have been no windlings after a few generations, even without any horrors to contend with.

[Aryxbez]

First:
The thing is, you don't automatically go up a Circle when you reach X Legend Points (read: XP), you spend LP to raise your Rank in various Talents, to buy new Talents, make magic items, and if you want to, raise your Circle (which allows you to buy new Talents). There's a bunch of math and trade-offs, but the long and short of it is that the system is very flexible - you don't need to buy all the talents at a given circle or raise them all to some level to advance in Circle, and if you want to you don't have to advance at all - a Circle 1 Warrior adept with Melee Weapons 15 is going to kick ass; and as mentioned multiclassing is relatively easy - though expensive.


There are also some mild insanities - viking trolls in wooden flying longboats and swashbuckling lizard-men come to mind - but those are all part of the fun.

So the T’skrang are swashbuckling Yoshi's...that would explain the popularity of such a trend that I saw among fans of Fantasycraft on their forums...

I can dig the sound of Viking Trolls as well, however this oddity of circle not advancing or latter, seems like it could be a rather unreliable measure of power. Does this mean the reverse is true, that one could just advance their circle beyond average, without picking up some abilities, and thus have little/none of the actual power someone of that circle should have? Sorta like 4th edition, where ye get called a "Demigod" at some point, yet still within Boring human like capabilities, with none of even the most basic superpowers available to you. Also, if that is the case as well, does this mean it's hard for a GM getting into this game to truly gauge PC's capabilities for making encounters? Hopefully, it's not like Mutants & Masterminds, where as I recall, HAVE NO ENCOUNTER SYSTEM (at least Conan RPG did that on purpose, still isn't a good thing however, sighs).

There is no game core anymore. Just tiers, like DnD4 has, but it has taken them from ED, I think. Basically, you have Initiate (1st circle), Novice (2-4), Journeyman (5-8), Master (9-12) and Grandmaster (13-15) circles ('levels', but ones that are used in-game, though it's rude to do that to someone).

Pardon, could you clarify what you're talking about the part in the parenthesis, you saying it's rude in the setting to call an NPC's circle a "level" or what?

So alright, Earthdawn is sounding pretty cool, but, being told how it's company by "hardcore fans", and people talking about how awesome it is, sounding rather suspicious (like Fans of White Wolf). As it is with most fans, tend to make something "sound" good, but how truly super awesome is it in actuality can be under question here. Especially that in such cases, the game isn't anywhere as good as fans/developers "think" it is. Since they're supposed to be like levels, what does Master and Grandmaster, look in scope to, compared to 3rd edition levels?

What kind of high level warrior like stunts can be pulled here, any sorts of super strength (like wielding a tree, 30ft-long Giant sword/BFS or throwing dragons), self-replicating jump based Fight (like the Hulk, Samurai Jack, Inuyasha, etc), hell wrestle a Tornado.

Also, believe said the game focuses on the first eight circles, how fairly well written (or imbalanced) are the other circle/levels beyond that here?

[Lokathor]

I can dig the sound of Viking Trolls as well, however this oddity of circle not advancing or latter, seems like it could be a rather unreliable measure of power. Does this mean the reverse is true, that one could just advance their circle beyond average, without picking up some abilities, and thus have little/none of the actual power someone of that circle should have?

No. To advance your circle to X you need Y many talents at rank Z (or all of your discipline talents, if you're in 3e; which works out to largely the same thing). This means that you must pick up new abilities as you go up through the circles. However, you could just sit at 2nd circle and boost the abilities you already have until the end of time. You'd be a stupid idiot, but it's possible. The costs to improve a talent or skill follow the fibonacci scale, so ultra focusing on just a few talents doesn't actually work out as well.

Above I said 2nd circle because 1st circle characters don't have access to the "Durability" talent, and putting ranks in that is how you get more hitpoints in Earthdawn.

[JongWK]

Never played it enough, but I love this game:

What kind of high level warrior like stunts can be pulled here, any sorts of super strength (like wielding a tree, 30ft-long Giant sword/BFS or throwing dragons), self-replicating jump based Fight (like the Hulk, Samurai Jack, Inuyasha, etc), hell wrestle a Tornado.

Also, believe said the game focuses on the first eight circles, how fairly well written (or imbalanced) are the other circle/levels beyond that here?

[Username17]

If that self resurrection power looks incredibly lame to you compared to the death armies that Nethermancers are pulling out, that is because that is exactly true. The high level warriors get to spend their XP as ablative extra hit points, the Nethermancers get an army of ablative soldiers that don't cost XP. At high circles, it's not even close.

But for the first 8 circles or so, the sword adepts and the spellcasters play on relatively even fields. Combat magic is flat unimpressive, and the wizards aren't summoning things the equal of the fighters until circle nine or ten.

But yes. At high circles, the Warriors get a new ability that gives them a +1 to their face stabbing and the Sorcerers get a new ability that allows them to transform into a dragon. The upper levels have the same "Greater Weapon Specialization vs. Shape Change" issue that high level abilities in 3e D&D have.

However, my biggest beef with Earthdawn is that it was supposed to be a prequel to Shadowrun, and then they went off on this fucking tirade about globe scouring space monsters that forced everyone to live in underground magic fortresses in 4000 BCE. That is one of the very few plotlines they possibly could have pursued that was completely incompatible with Shadowrun. Whatever the fuck the 4th world was like, it had to have been something that the vast majority of life on Earth could live through because it is simple observable reality that the Earth by and large was not essentially destroyed several times in the incredibly recent geologic past.

Should have been more Conan, less post-apocalypse. Because Shadowrun takes place in the near future, and the world wasn't destroyed at any point.

-Username17

[Kot]

1. How easy would it be to use Earthdawn for more generic games? Let's say I want to tell the story of a posse of adventurers who brave the perils of the Fane of Dicko the Genie in order to free him and make wishes for asymmetric power, then destabilize the political situation in the land of the NotArabs when they start using their new powers.

2. Is there anything impeding me from running a game where people make their way through a dungeon full of ridiculous traps and monsters, having capricious genies that could give you a bunch of fancy powers and/or set you on fire when you convince them to give you a wish, and then somehow modeling the interactions between whatever organizations the PCs create once they can call water from the sand and explode things with their laser eyebeams?

@1. Very. Especially if you want to play the 'The Great Theran Not-Empire (we have no emperors, you see...) fights against Terrorist Barbarians from Creana to liberate the opressed orichal... erm, Namegivers'.

@2. Nope. Especially if in the end they can find out that was just a cruel mindf**ck created by one of the more fun-oriented Horrors, and they just provided him with a decent snack.

Windlings: female to male ratio 1-10 or so. Mating for life. And they usually have only one kid per marriage.

Yeah, whoever wrote that shit had no clue about mathematics. There would have been no windlings after a few generations, even without any horrors to contend with.

Polygamy/clan marriage. They still mate for life, and the wife has one kid with each husband.
There, fixed it. :P

Pardon, could you clarify what you're talking about the part in the parenthesis, you saying it's rude in the setting to call an NPC's circle a "level" or what?

No. It's rude to call a Master Wizard a 10-th Circle Wizard.

So alright, Earthdawn is sounding pretty cool, but, being told how it's company by "hardcore fans", and people talking about how awesome it is, sounding rather suspicious (like Fans of White Wolf). As it is with most fans, tend to make something "sound" good, but how truly super awesome is it in actuality can be under question here. Especially that in such cases, the game isn't anywhere as good as fans/developers "think" it is. Since they're supposed to be like levels, what does Master and Grandmaster, look in scope to, compared to 3rd edition levels?

It's a small company. Nothing crappy like White Wolf's line-killing. The fact that almost all their products receive pretty good ratings in reviews - especially those not made by fans - speaks for itself. But to be honest the game has aged nicely, but still aged. There was a Cathay sourcebook released recently, but besides that they just made a new edition and 'upgraded' the old books (and they're not done with that yet).
Epic enough. For example: spells above level eight are considered legendary. Master level Adepts usually have their own cohort, influence in several cities, and social position on 'aristocracy' level. Sky Raiders/Sky Sailors/Boatmen usually have their own ship at this level. Possibly several. Multi-attacks and truly spectacular Talents are also starting to pop at Master circles, including magic (not castrated like in dnd) for non-spellcaster disciplines, and other epic powers.
To be honest, I can't really speculate accurately, because I never played DnD much. But in ED reaching Master circles makes you one of those characters that you usually find in campaign settings as 'the most powerfull x in this land'.
Besides, in Earthdawn you're legendary from the start, and even 1-st circle greenhorns can easily become well known pretty much everywhere. It mostly depends on how their story will be passed on (read: if the Troubadur who does it is high-circle, or not).

What kind of high level warrior like stunts can be pulled here, any sorts of super strength (like wielding a tree, 30ft-long Giant sword/BFS or throwing dragons), self-replicating jump based Fight (like the Hulk, Samurai Jack, Inuyasha, etc), hell wrestle a Tornado.

1-st circle Warrior can improve his initiative via Air Dance. It makes him hover a few inches above the ground while he 'dances' in combat. And it pretty much goes downhill from that. For example, we had a player whose character was a captain of a riverboat. During an enemy boarding action her character managed to cut a bloody path to the enemy captain through his whole ship, not even staining her clothes, then beat and kill the opponent, humiliating him along the way. In style, as Swordsmasters do. All that without a scratch, and against decent NPC's, with average dice rolls, and good tactical planning. And maybe a little help from her friends... We were at third circle then. The same Circle had my Wizard, when he managed to cut a troll in half (i still have that cut NPC sheet) with a single spell (that was a few circles beyond his own, though).
As for the specifics, if you want super-strength, play a troll or obsidiman. Then you can pull it off. Others? Too, but buffed, or using blood magic. No dragon throwing though. They don't like that. Jump-fights are also possible. Great Leap+Wind Walk+Wind Catcher. If you play a troll or obsidiman, wrestling tornadoes is doable. Especially if you're an Elementalist.

Also, believe said the game focuses on the first eight circles, how fairly well written (or imbalanced) are the other circle/levels beyond that here?

Not any more. AFAIR they're very balanced. Haven't seen any issues with that discussed anywhere. But I might be wrong. By my calculations Master and Grandmaster circles are appropriately 'epic'.

Earthdawn usually manages with providing exploding dice when the moment is sufficiently heroic, and the fate of at least the part lies in balance...

@JongWK: Show him the 'almost-like-skin-shift' spell. :P

@Frank: The best (time- and damage-efficient) offensive spells are at lower levels. And the choice is a lot better then. A lot of legendary spells are designed with a specific task in mind, or just to show how powerful their creator was. Hell, they're usually self-propelling stories. :)

However, my biggest beef with Earthdawn is that it was supposed to be a prequel to Shadowrun, and then they went off on this fucking tirade about globe scouring space monsters that forced everyone to live in underground magic fortresses in 4000 BCE. That is one of the very few plotlines they possibly could have pursued that was completely incompatible with Shadowrun. Whatever the fuck the 4th world was like, it had to have been something that the vast majority of life on Earth could live through because it is simple observable reality that the Earth by and large was not essentially destroyed several times in the incredibly recent geologic past.

Should have been more Conan, less post-apocalypse. Because Shadowrun takes place in the near future, and the world wasn't destroyed at any point.

No. Because the Horrors weren't an equivalent of a mutual atomic destruction. They came to feed like a swarm of locusts. Yes, they destroyed and corrupted a lot of things, but it is noted that the land is healing at an amazing rate - forests growing, creatures returning to their old habitats, and such. Besides, the most powerful Horrors were interested in Namegivers, not the land or nature itself. Because every Namegiver capable of suffering was a meal they were deprived of in their 'native' corners of the metaplanes that spawned them.
If you look at the monsters in Earthdawn, you'll notice that a lot of them are just magically changed versions of animals. Made vicious by the Scourge (only the toughest creatures survived), and developing magical powers by courtesy of a high mana level.
So, no, the world wasn't destroyed (that happened during another Scourge, but that's the story of Equinox, a space-fantasy sequel to Shadowrun), but most civilizations were. The Theran Empire survived, because it thrived on magic. And even they weren't unscathed, if you look how much they depend on death magic.

The Scourge has almost wiped the 'metahumanity' out, not life on Earth itself, because metahumans aren't needed to fuel the magic field, that the Horrors need to cross into our plane. I don't think those powerfull Horrors would allow it. Wouldn't you shoot any moron who comes to your orchard with a chainsaw, because they really want some apples?
Oh, and according to the legends, that was the second Scourge.

[OgreBattle]

I can't really recommend the Dark Eldar stuff, sadly. 40K stuff can be an amusing read, but it's not really good even as a cautionary tale for designers of settings.

Nah, 40k's got one of the most distinct and built up settings out there, Dark Eldar included (and RT Pirates). The 3e DE fluff really sucked though.

[tenuki]

go from rolling 1d8 (1-8) to 2d4 (2-8). In the former case, the addition of one die doubles the maximum outcome and increases the minimum outcome; in the latter, the minimum income increases but the maximum remains the same.

Also, your likelihood of rolling an 8 halves, which is wierd. And your liklihood of a seven or better drops by about 6%.

First off, Earthdawn virtually never uses 2d4. 2d4 is not step. The only way for that particular combo of dice ever to be rolled is if a troll or obsidiman rolls his suckiest stat with no talent or skill rating but adding karma.

Secondly, fectin, in your claim above you're forgetting the fact that the dice explode.

Here's the math made easy for those who don't like probability mass functions but are comfortable with multiplying rational fractions:

Probability of rolling 7 or more on 2d4, exploding.

Rolling the initial 2d4 can be described as two independent events with four equally probable outcomes each. That makes for a total of 16 possible outcomes before considering exploding dice. Of these outcomes, six are equivalent to another six -- i.e. (2, 4) = (4, 2). The four doubles are unique.

With exploding dice you get an infinite number of possible outcomes. Fortunately we need not concern ourselves with the infinity end of the curve because we're using a trick. We're exploiting the fact that the probability of something happening equals 100% minus the probability of its not happening. Or p(A) = 1 - p(not A).

So let's look at the probability of NOT getting at least 7 on 2d4. To do so, I'm subdividing the outcomes of a 2d4 roll into two categories, namely those with and those without exploding dice in them.

No dice explode when neither d4 shows a 4. The probability of a single d4 coming up on a 3 or less is 3/4. The probability of two dice coming up on a 3 or less each is 3/4 x 3/4 = 9/16. You'll have noticed that all non-exploding 2d4 rolls have totals below 7.

Of the rolls WITH exploding dice, only two yield totals below 7. It happens if you roll (1, 4) or (4, 1) and then a 1, for a total of 6. The probability for this is 2/16 x 1/4 = 1/32.*

So the overall probability for getting less than 7 on 2d4 is 9/16 + 1/32 = 19/32. The remaining 13 out of 32 rolls necessarily have totals of 7 or more.

To get back to your example, the probability of getting a 7 or more on a d8 is 2/8, or 8/32.

When going from 1d8 to 2d4, you are not lowering your chance of getting a 7 by 6 percent, you are increasing it by more than 50%.

Your other claim that your chance of getting an 8 or more halves is even more off. This probability actually more than doubles from 1/8 to 9/32.



Finally, the very good reason Earthdawn dropped d4s and d20 from the step tables was to get rid of the huge increase in swing when you go from d12+d10 to d20+d4, or step 13 to step 14 in ED terms. This increase massively improved your chance of succeeding at difficult tasks, which sucked because of the magnitude of the change. It also increased your chance of failing at very easy ones, which sucked for a whole another set of reasons.



*(two out of the 16 equally likely outcomes of the first roll with two dice) x (one out of four outcomes for the third die)

[K]

I can't really recommend the Dark Eldar stuff, sadly. 40K stuff can be an amusing read, but it's not really good even as a cautionary tale for designers of settings.

Nah, 40k's got one of the most distinct and built up settings out there, Dark Eldar included (and RT Pirates). The 3e DE fluff really sucked though.

You think? 40K always struck me as Bizarro fiction written by 13-year olds.

I like a lot of the art and design.

[Whipstitch]

I'd say ogrebattle is correct insofar that you can stack feces pretty high when you're as motivated as GWS.

[Fuchs]

Windlings: female to male ratio 1-10 or so. Mating for life. And they usually have only one kid per marriage.

Yeah, whoever wrote that shit had no clue about mathematics. There would have been no windlings after a few generations, even without any horrors to contend with.

Polygamy/clan marriage. They still mate for life, and the wife has one kid with each husband.
There, fixed it.

They stated they were monogamous too, and the males competed fiercly for the females. A whole page or two about their courting rituals.

So, yeah, fuckers did not do math at all.

[Windjammer]

For the record, K is allowed his opinion on blood elves, drow, dark Eldar, and whatever the fuck else he wants.

Clearly, you have a huge emotional investment in my opinion of Earthdawn and pretending that you don't shames the hundreds of words you've written while attempting to correct me of my opinion.

I'm no part of this conversation but wanted to thank you both for expressing your positions. Got me interested in Earthdawn again. Like K, I had a pretty low idea of blood elves, but thanks to AncientHistory I actually revised that opinion to a much more favourable one. Cheers.

[ishy]

I read those circle spells and they look fucking weird to me. I tried googling to find some information about the basics of the game but couldn't really find anthing useful.

So I'm asking the questions here so I hopefully no longer think, what the fuck is this:

The resurrect Self ability: do you really gain permanent damage everytime you use this ability? How the fuck are you supposed to stay alive after using it a couple of times?
And why the confusing wording about the Karma points? You lose them permanently and then it states you reduce your max by the amount spend. I assume that is just stating it twice for some reason? After which you gain 25 permanently?

And am I really reading the call forth army of decay spell correctly that it raises undead in a 5 mile radius. But you can only control them from a distance of 1 mile max. And otherwise they follow the last order received, which you couldn't give them since they were out of your range.

Not to mention the fact that "The magician can mentally control the army from a distance of up to 1 mile, although this requires him to concentrate while issuing commands" seems to apply with the word although that if you control them from a different distance (which is not defined) you don't have to concentrate?

[tenuki]

I'm no part of this conversation but wanted to thank you both for expressing your positions. Got me interested in Earthdawn again. Like K, I had a pretty low idea of blood elves, but thanks to AncientHistory I actually revised that opinion to a much more favourable one. Cheers.

Ancient's posts here pretty much summed up what I like about Earthdawn and its campaign background. And as always, if there is something you don't like, simply change it.

[Username17]

Hit Points are a thing you can buy more of with XPs. The cost goes up as you buy more of them. A bunch of blood powers have hit point costs instead of XP costs, which means that not only do they cost more you use them, but each one costs more the more you use any of the others. It's a complex piece of accounting for a marginal benefit that is questionable at best.

-Username17

[ishy]

That..... sounds even worse.
So the better your char becomes (or the more you use those powers) you fall behind more and more.
The best strategy for something like that is thus spamming the moves till your char falls so far behind you're best off starting a new char.

[crizh]

That quote about resurrect self and karma is confusing.

The gain in max karma is not part of the resurrect self ability, it is part of the package of gains made at 13th circle.

At 13th circle you gain the resurrect self ability and the +25 to max karma.

Using resurrect self does not increase your karma max, quite the opposite, it permanently decreases it every time it is used.

Which is presumably the reason for the massive bonus to karma max received at that circle.

edit

Permanent damage is a big part of the system. It is the result of using the cooler forms of blood magic. Everybody is trading in some of the hit points they are buying with the durability talent for cool magical abilities.

You should not fall behind because you are accumulating permanent damage as your peers should also be accumulating it at roughly the same rate.

re-edit

On checking a 3e rulebook, resurrect self no longer costs permanent damage and 13th circle increases karma step by 1 rather than increasing max karma. So most of the above is moot.

[tenuki]

EDIT: Most of the below is moot.

All disciplines get a huge karma bonus at circle 13.

Like most extremely high-circle stuff, the resurrect self ability is not intended to be used frequently. It's just an extra layer of protection. ED has plenty of safeguards against PCs dying already that do not require you to cripple your character.

In general terms, the otherwise pretty elegant mechanics of ED stop working properly at high circles. I like to stay below circle 10 and keep the extreme stuff in the background to be used as story hooks.

[fectin]

Secondly, fectin, in your claim above you're forgetting the fact that the dice explode.

Yes I am.

I get the same result as you do after including that fact.

[Kot]

They stated they were monogamous too, and the males competed fiercly for the females. A whole page or two about their courting rituals.

So, yeah, fuckers did not do math at all.

That was FASA, but yeah, it was overlooked probably. I'll check my Namegiver's Compendium in a moment.
Besides, that's why I say 'Fixed it'. I'll go with that explanation. Makes Windlings more fun. :)

I'm no part of this conversation but wanted to thank you both for expressing your positions. Got me interested in Earthdawn again. Like K, I had a pretty low idea of blood elves, but thanks to AncientHistory I actually revised that opinion to a much more favourable one. Cheers.

Yes you are. And I'm not trying to convince K as much as trying to bludgeon him into submission with truth and logic.
And If this thread (and I'm not taking any credit for it) makes someone re-evaluate his opinion on Earthdawn, or give it a try, that's cool. Maybe it will help the game crawling out of its niche...

The resurrect Self ability: do you really gain permanent damage everytime you use this ability? How the fuck are you supposed to stay alive after using it a couple of times?
And why the confusing wording about the Karma points? You lose them permanently and then it states you reduce your max by the amount spend. I assume that is just stating it twice for some reason? After which you gain 25 permanently?

1. The Warrior gets +9 to his Death Rating (the amount of damage that kills him) and +7 to his Unconsciousness Rating (the same, but you just get KO'd) per level of his Durability talent. Around this circle he'd have at least 10+ levels bough. That makes ~100 bonus 'hit points'. And to resurrect yourself once you need to pay three points only.
2. Your Karma pool is equal to a racial modifier (usually 3) times the level of 'Karmic Ritual' Talent. The talent itself is Disciplinary, which means you have to raise it to advance. This makes it at least equal to your Circle. Even a puny elf (and their Karma rating is low) has a Karma Pool ~40 at 13th circle. You have to spend 1-2 points at the most to survive. And - the Life Check talent already allows you to spend one karma point on the test (or more, if you have proper magical items, and other buffs). Your Karma Die should be at least d8 by the time, probably better. So burning (like Edge in Shadowrun) those Karma points isn't much of a problem. Besides, this power is more for rising from the grave fighting fit, than just surviving a killing blow. You can raise someone with a salve at 1st circle. Or even not being an adept - it's a question of money. It costs more than a 1st circle party owns usually.
@Crizh: Using Karma for this ability is optional. But with it you can just jump up and continue fighting, especially when combined with Fireblood for example. And yes, ED3 did that, and a lot more re-balancing like that...

And am I really reading the call forth army of decay spell correctly that it raises undead in a 5 mile radius. But you can only control them from a distance of 1 mile max. And otherwise they follow the last order received, which you couldn't give them since they were out of your range.

Not to mention the fact that "The magician can mentally control the army from a distance of up to 1 mile, although this requires him to concentrate while issuing commands" seems to apply with the word although that if you control them from a different distance (which is not defined) you don't have to concentrate?

Spell Range Pattern. You can expand the range and control. But it's more of a 'kill all living' spell. Or 'start dancing polka', if you feel silly.
Besides, if you stand on a battlefield and Call Forh your Army of Decay, and then spend some time walking around to gather them all in your control zone by simply issuing a 'come to me and follow' command. You don't even have to walk anymore, with a fresh supply of rotting palankin slaves. Undead Crowd Surfing... *snicker*
And the duration is 14+days ('rank' refers to the Spellcasting talent, which is also Disciplinary, so it's at circle=>rank)

@Frank: Well, Blood Magic is a very shady deal by itself. But it does give you benefits. Like one of the only sources of (marginal, but still worth considering) protection from Horror powers. Or self-resurrecting ability that lets you earn money by not dying...

@Ishy: No. Because those aren't hit points. They don't work like that. And armor in ED provides soak, not deflection. I've played a meat shield in ED for some time, and he was not even a Warrior, but a Weaponsmith. And not even that heavily armored.

I never reached master level playing ED, and I probably never will, so I can't say much besides my own speculations. I still think it's balanced better than DnD.

[Lokathor]

Kot, tags.