The Gaming Den

@Catharz: Clarifications made on the points you brought up, as are the shapeshifter spells. I do intend for hirelings to be used as fodder IF the players have sufficient funds & eloquence to convince them to be actual fodder. I have now includes a means for incorporating death into the system, and explicitly made PCs nearly impossible to kill from conscious (1HP or more) by virtue of the damage system (essentially only against Str 4 giants with 2H weapons going all-out, and the player has less than 6HP).

@Avora: By the looks of it, the scale is pretty decent. The zones are missing sizes, and I'll eventually need to start including sample features and their traits (stuff like cover bonuses to Dodge or area attacks).

Is the initiative/phase system I've got too much of a hassle? I had been using it for the goal of giving tactical depth in combat without making the game too difficult for pick-up & play usage.

I like the current initiative phases. Makes usable terrain features more interesting. Demon Cave is going to have fireworks launchers that target an entire zone, but go off in Phase 7. It feels better than making it a straightforward attack with a stationary weapon or an event that triggers after rounds of work.

I have been thinking on the name for this system other than OD&D Revised, and have come up with three ideas.

• Parabellum: Sins of the Children
• Oubliette
• Danger Immured

Does Fireball add your Cunning score or modifier to damage.

Stupid question as it is explained in the Cunning entry.

The two numbers should be one and the same. The 4d6 you roll is just a number that gives you a score that ranges from -2 to +2; the number rolled to get the score is ignored from then on.

There is the consideration due the limitations involved in using spells to make the damage of Fireball be 1d6/level rather than 1d6+level.

So far, in playtest, lightning bolt is proving to be absolutely brutal against 'boss' monsters.

In consideration, it might work to use 4E monster roles rather than building them like PCs. Preset values, independent of level, with the level modifier then added as needed.

I would advise against 4e monster roles, as that breaks verisimilitude and causes monsters to feel like a bland homogeny.

I believe 1d6/level Fireball is a great idea, as it still enforces the 2 hits to die this system has going for it, but because it hits multiple enemies t costs a manna point, and furthermore it appeals to the gronard in me.

It looks like you got a Black, Red, White, Blue mage thing going on with your magical schools. Will there ever be a Necromancer/Warlord (lots of little minions), Binder/Summoner (calls a single big monster for a time), or Time mage (teleportation, haste, slow) class, or they outside the scope of power in this system?

Now that I have rules for minions that I don't mind, so there are pros/cons to buying minions and such, having a Necromancer, Warlord, Binder, & Summoner are all viable options for me to make. The Time Mage doesn't offer a hurdle that can't be overcome with the power established by the other mages.

Addendhum: In fact, I appreciate the ideas. I'll put them on my to-do list of jobs to make.

It sounds like some people are expressing interest in this system; have any of you gotten around to playing it, and if so, how was it?

It needs a bit more work before I force my family to play it, specifically example sizes for Zones and Objects as well as rules for what objects are capable of doing (grant cover, be on fire, ect...), and how traps work and examples of traps; There also needs to be rules for materials and objects and how to break them and how difficult it is to do so.

• How do you open a door?
• How do you and how difficult is it to break a door, cut down a tree, destroy an object?
• How do you craft a door, forge a sword, stitch a backpack, build a wall?

I, personally, really like animator Necromancers, and come high water or hell will force a playtest if I get to be a one.

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Speaking of Necromancers, Skeletons and Zombies should be based on Size, like in 2e; bigger minions get bigger stats.

On an unrelated note, I would suggest increasing sizes across the board by 1 step
size/example
0 Bug
1 Cat
2 Dog
3 Human
4 Horse
5 Elephant
6 Whale
7+ and so on

Object destruction is an odd duck. On the one hand, part of my goal for the system is that increasing in level only really increases your ability to stab fools in the face, and subsequently avoiding getting stabbed in turn; so busting down a wall or being in prison should be 'roughly' the same challenge at level 1 as it is at level 9.

The easiest way is to copy d20, and recreate hardness and hit points for walls; and the requisite such for a stone dungeon wall would be Hardness 10, and 3HP. That would allow an ogre with a maul, going all out, to be capable of one-shotting out of prison; yet it takes a PC stronger than an ogre (Str 2) to be able to damage the wall if in prison without a 2H weapon (only fists and improvised weapons).

At the same time, skill checks can allow for similar situations. This makes the DC minimums be so that expertly trained humans cannot impersonate the Kool-Aid Man, so roughly DC 17 is the bottom for a prison wall (either a master athlete or an expert that's as strong as an ogre); and should potentially be higher depending on circumstantial modifiers, or at least said modifiers need to be such that three gnomes pushing together to push down the prison wall.

I'll have to look into other options as well, especially if I want size to be of importance here.

I'll stick to standard humanoid-style zombies and skeletons for the moment, but I'll definitely go with the unistat for each size category. With the creation of zombies and skeletons though, I have now included the Necromancer job.

I'm including a couple traps to give an idea as to their function. Part of their importance in using them in spicing up combat is to have them attached to a feature as a danger.

I'm going with skill checks for the time being for object destruction, which is at least mentioned under the new Extended skill test.

In the Opinion section, Frank brought up a good point as far as multiclassing reaching verbal description over-complexity.

I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to postpone the second job and create subjobs/kits (or whatever) to be chosen between getting the second job.

These classes aren't very complex. They are a one-time package of 3-6 stat increases and a single class feature. When a level 2 character hits level 3, none of the increases made to the character stats are affected by what class the character is.

How would a sub-job be simpler or different from this?

Description mainly. A revision on the idea though; pick the 1st and 2nd job normally. But at level 7, instead of picking a 3rd job, you pick a Prestige Job (or kit, or paragon path, whatevs).

Fighter/Rogue could pick from Swashbuckler, Pirate, or Skirmisher
Black Mage/White Mage could pick from Archmage, Elementalist, or Shaman
etc

I had some questions about the necromancer powers.

virgil wrote:

• Drain: Cantrip, Ranged, Presence vs Willpower for 1d6 damage as the victim's mana is removed.

Does this power actually drain mana, or does it just do damage? If it just does damage maybe change the word mana to essence, or lifeforce (though lifeforce has a conotation that you could only effect things that are alive)

virgil wrote:[*]Armor of the Grave: Charm, self-buff, bonds the unlife of up to four controlled undead with the caster, allowing him to gain the benefits of their aid to defense and damage without having to remain engaged to them.

Could you clarify what this actually does? I am kind of confused, when I use this power does it consume the undead I used it on granting me +4 d and d for as long as the spell last, or something else?

virgil wrote:[*]Animate Dead: Spell, Ranged, Area (3), animates every corpse in the area with a single command of six words or less.

Two things:
1. I read this as "the caster creates undead using six words or less." If you meant "the caster creates undead, and the created undead follow simple commands of the caster of six words or less" please clarify.
2. When they are reanimated what are they, Skeletons, Zombies, Shadows, Ghouls, ext...?

virgil wrote:...Animating beyond this will not allow the caster to change the initial command they are created with.

So does that mean when I surpass my undead control limit, the orders I originally gave to my undead will still be followed even if though I can not give them new orders?

All three spells have been clarified. Undead created are zombies and skeletons, which I'll eventually work on creating for ones larger and smaller than human.

Undead are always created with a six-word command, control allows for one to change the command. I'll eventually add the extra bit for subcommands, essentially behavior inherent when they have no command to enact (such as having completed it and no new ones are given). It would include self-defense when attacked, and try to include something to get mimicry of some behavior of life, so we can get spontaneously partying skeletons.

The chase rules are a little confusing. A sample scenario might help people to understand them.

Sample Chase Scene
Out intrepid heroes are engaged in melee with a gremlin assault force, except for the goblin archer, who has climbed up a tree (cover, Climb 7 engage). One of the gremlins disengages. The next movement phase, the gremlin 'creates' a Retreat zone, a more thickly wooded section of the forest (size 1 normal, size 2 if slowed).
If by the start of the next movement phase, no enemies are in this new zone, then the gremlin may simply leave the scene in escape.
If the archer, during that phase, realizes what's about to happen, he can give chase. Upon entering the Retreat zone that phase (even if he goes first due to Move), he can make an opposed Athletics (running) check with the gremlin. If successful, then the gremlin simply entered a new Retreat zone, and the old one is a regular zone. If the archer fails, then he must enter a Long Chase if he still wishes to stop the gremlin.


Bunch of new stuff. Destruction rules, basics of fire rules which still need a bunch of work, master jobs (aka prestige classes).

It's difficult to conceive of a viable advancement system that isn't just handing out a new level whenever the DM feels like it's a good idea.

Thanks. It is possible that a playtest game will happen in a couple weeks. I've got at least 2 players interested.

One goal/possibility with this system is conversion of OD&D monsters to this system. AC = Tenacity, Dodge/Will/Insight = 10+(HD/2), HP = HD*2 (3 if melee focused, 4 if big name), BAB = HD/2, damage = largely unchanged unless greater than 1d10, then it's roughly 1d6+(2 per d10), should be able to use it otherwise without much trouble

What needs work or addition?

Known To-Do List

• Setting - Charts, sample locations, etc
• Magic items - Vancian & Monkey's Paw style
• Shopping List - More elaborate price guide
• Experience system - Loquacious way of saying "get a level each adventure"
• Master Jobs - List needs completion, especially casters
• Monsters - More special abilities for creating your own, especially Damage Reduction & Magic Resistance
• Combat Encounters - Guidelines for what's an appropriate challenge, and advice on known when to run away (hint: hordes of anything)

How does this look for a more boss-level critter?

Red Dragon
HD 10 (40 HP), Size 4. Move 6/fly.
BAB 5. Bite +3/1d6+4 (swallow on natural 20). Fire breath (AoE 4) +3/1d6+2 fire. Earth-shaking roar (AoE 4) +5 vs dodge/prone & 1d6+4 damage to structures.
Strength 2 (19), Dexterity -2 (13), Cunning 0 (15), Presence 0 (15).
Resistant to fire +5.

If I'm to understand the design, outside of his HD/level, he has +0 BaB on al of his attacks and +2 to Tenacity?

For a very basic boss critter, that would work, yes. In his instance, I can see the argument that he doesn't have any 'job' bonuses to his attacks. I would expect him to have a skill proficiency or two, a specialization even.

I haven't decided how to handle damage/fire resistance yet. On the one hand, I can simply have a selectively higher defense, as you have there for fire. Another option would be closer to D&D reduction, reducing the damage by a listed value; making it similar to 2E's system in practice (don't bother with swording the monster with DR 5 or 10 vs nonmagic weapons).