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Cyberpunk Fantasy Heartbreaker: Magic and Technology
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Endovior
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Actually, that strikes me as a really useful solution... oil is less dense then water, after all, so it'd be easy to fill subs up with crude to float them up to the surface. Once up there, they can do whatever it was they were planning on doing up there... whether it be piracy or trade... then stop off at a refinery, drop off their cargo, then sink back down into the depths by taking on water. Rinse and repeat; everyone from the small-time raiders to the bulk haulers would do that.
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FrankTrollman wrote:
We had a history and maps and fucking civilization, and there were countries and cities and kingdoms. But then the spell plague came and fucked up the landscape and now there are mountains where there didn't used to be and dragons with boobs and no one has the slightest idea of what's going on. And now there are like monsters everywhere and shit.
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...You Lost Me
Duke


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In addition, there used to be an idea where we could dispose of nuclear waste in subduction zones at the bottom of the ocean, where they would go into the mantle and not bother us for bazillions of years. It's expensive because it's at the bottom of the ocean and requires radiation protection and all that.

Deep Ones could make that more economical, which means every countries that aren't Evil Oil Giants(tm) have a reason to befriend Rl'yeh and all that. If you give the Deep Ones radiation resistance, the prospects are even cheaper.
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DSMatticus wrote:
Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
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Grek
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That also means entrusting Deep Ones with nuclear waste.
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But more importantly if you elevate jerkishness into a principle, if you try to undermine the rules that keep niceness, community, and civilization going, the defenses against social cancer then your movement will fracture, it will be hugely embarrassing, the atmosphere will become toxic, unpopular people will be thrown to the mob, everyone but the thickest-skinned will bow out, and the people you need to convince will view you with a mixture of terror and loathing.
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name_here
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I wouldn't worry about it. Nuclear waste is hardly an optimal terrorist weapon, and the Deep Ones could probably track down Uranium deposits on the ocean floor if they decided to make a nuke or dirty bomb. Which isn't all that big a worry because they're more likely to call forth some kind of astral abomination to level a city if it becomes necessary.

Nuclear waste is dangerous, but over the period of time the doomsday cultists plan on the world persisting a nerve agent would cause many more deaths.
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It's not just that everything you say is stupid, but that they are Gordian knots of stupid that leave me completely bewildered as to where to even begin. After hearing you speak Alexander the Great would stab you and triumphantly declare the puzzle solved.
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kzt
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

name_here wrote:

Nuclear waste is dangerous, but over the period of time the doomsday cultists plan on the world persisting a nerve agent would cause many more deaths.

It's a perfectly manageable problem. The problem is that we have decided to not manage it. Plus there is good evidence that the standard techniques for estimating radiation risk are severely flawed and produce results that grossly overstate the risk of low level radiation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477708/
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Endovior
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

kzt wrote:
name_here wrote:

Nuclear waste is dangerous, but over the period of time the doomsday cultists plan on the world persisting a nerve agent would cause many more deaths.

It's a perfectly manageable problem. The problem is that we have decided to not manage it. Plus there is good evidence that the standard techniques for estimating radiation risk are severely flawed and produce results that grossly overstate the risk of low level radiation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477708/


This. Nuclear waste is actually really quite easy to store... the only reason why it's a 'difficult' problem is because all kinds of laws have been passed that make it artificially difficult to store the stuff. As an example, the maximum yearly amount of radiation Yucca Mountain is allowed to release is 150 microsieverts... which is less than half of what you give yourself anyways from the natural potassium in your body alone, far less then what you'd get from any kind of medical scan (about three fortieths of what you'd get from a head CT scan), and vastly less then the amount that actually increases your cancer risk (100000 microsieverts). And that's actually way out in the middle of the desert, where no one lives or is likely to go, and surrounded by warning signs to keep out the foolish. So even if you went up to that oh-so-dangerous nuclear waste disposal plant and decided to live there... you still wouldn't be anywhere near harming yourself.

And, lest we forget, we're talking about a society run by giant megacorps, not panicky environmentalists. Accordingly, the problem of nuclear waste disposal isn't likely to have a more complicated solution then burying the stuff in an unused landfill in an uninhabited area, and posting danger signs outside. In this future, if you decide to ignore the "danger radioactive" signs and squat in a disposal area, you'll probably get cancer and die. But you won't actually get cancer if you're just passing through, since you need an awful lot of high-end waste pretty much exposed to release that kind of rads, and that's the kind of stuff that you're better off reprocessing.

(if curious, see http://xkcd.com/radiation/ for more info)
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FrankTrollman wrote:
We had a history and maps and fucking civilization, and there were countries and cities and kingdoms. But then the spell plague came and fucked up the landscape and now there are mountains where there didn't used to be and dragons with boobs and no one has the slightest idea of what's going on. And now there are like monsters everywhere and shit.
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fectin
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Feel free to split this off to a new thread.

I strongly approve of deep one details going in a splat book. Give enough detail in the main book to make diplomacy with them make sense, but don't derail it
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Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
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Grek
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So, tech question: What does air transport look like for lancers? Is it reasonable for a member of the team to own a helocoptor?
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But more importantly if you elevate jerkishness into a principle, if you try to undermine the rules that keep niceness, community, and civilization going, the defenses against social cancer then your movement will fracture, it will be hugely embarrassing, the atmosphere will become toxic, unpopular people will be thrown to the mob, everyone but the thickest-skinned will bow out, and the people you need to convince will view you with a mixture of terror and loathing.
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kzt
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It shouldn't be, unless they get paid a lot. Aircraft are expensive to buy, expensive to fly, and expensive just to own. Helicopters are worse.
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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What with the AirCar actually existing in the modern era, some form of personal air transport would probably exist, but it would probably be short range and lightweight rather than long range and/or heavy weight. And it would still be moderate to very expensive.
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OgreBattle
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How similar/different is Assymetric Threat's spirits and astral planes (or wherever spirits and magical energy comes from) to how Shadowrun handles it?

Is it going to be a more Shadowrunesque "nobody truly knows but there seems to be planes and spirits that match any given magical path", or more D&D's "There definitely is a hell for demons and a hell for devils and they exist independent of human belief".
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

OgreBattle wrote:
How similar/different is Assymetric Threat's spirits and astral planes (or wherever spirits and magical energy comes from) to how Shadowrun handles it?

Is it going to be a more Shadowrunesque "nobody truly knows but there seems to be planes and spirits that match any given magical path", or more D&D's "There definitely is a hell for demons and a hell for devils and they exist independent of human belief".


Completely different. Assymetric Threat posits alternate geography that is real and persistent. It even has pockets of Earth that shifted out when the magic left and now shifted back in when the stars were right. So there are people in Themiskyra, Arvandor, and Helheim; and they were there for centuries developing in their own way. And those nations are massively behind technologically from the rest of the planet, but they have weird magic and powerful demons on their side.

There is a general fear that when the stars get "more right" that actual hell dimensions and shit might start pouring onto the Earth, but that remains uncertain. In any case, actual hell dimensions do appear to exist and time passes in them in a real way.

-Frank
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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So . . basically, the Meta-Planes are real and you had better pray and sacrifice to the right gods to make sure they do not intersect with the mundane plane at one point?
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OgreBattle
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How fast and reliable is space travel in this setting? Magic doesn't work in space and fusion reactors were mentioned.

Does magic work on the moon, mars, or near the sun, and do these places have their own astral realms?


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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

OgreBattle wrote:
How fast and reliable is space travel in this setting? Magic doesn't work in space and fusion reactors were mentioned.

Does magic work on the moon, mars, or near the sun, and do these places have their own astral realms?


Magic being limited to Earth is a Shadowrun conceit. The mana comes from Gaia rising and the biosphere of the living world. In this setting, magic comes from the stars being right, so magic should work at least as well anywhere in the solar system.

-Frank
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OgreBattle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Can an AI learn magic, could a computer have a spirit or astral presence?
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OgreBattle
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What does a standard military fireteam look like in this setting of cyborgs and wizards? For example in real life the US army has 4 dudes basically revolving around the machine gun. Are there enough magic users in AT that every 4 man team would have a Mage, do some nations go all in with magic and have fantasy equivalents to machinegun dudes, are combat drones a regular part of infantry combat?

Are sword fights going to be a thing that happens in dense warfare environments?


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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

why would you be carrying an extra weapon like a heavy and undwieldy sword with you when you can simply put a bayonette on the gun and stab people with that?

As for the rest:
that depens completely on price/availability.
If basic armor and strength enhancements are cheap and do not hurt the host body too much then you will either get weapon crews carrying much heavier ordnance or you will have several of the lighter crew served weapons operated by single persons.
Same for drones. If they are cheap and available, then there should be at least one flying drone for recon stuff in most every team. Or overwatch/view.
Same for magic. If there is an abundance of a certain kind of magic, healing for example, you will have that in most any fireteam.
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OgreBattle
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Stahlseele wrote:
why would you be carrying an extra weapon like a heavy and undwieldy sword with you when you can simply put a bayonette on the gun and stab people with that?


magic swords, cyborg ninjas are sometimes a thing in sci fantasy settings. Magic swords are something brought up often in AT discussions when talking about things shadowrun didn't do well
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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Shadowrun made it so not everybody could use them, but otherwise, it made magic swords exactly how you would imagine them O.o

But my point still stands. If you could have a magic bayonette instead(and if you can have magic swords i call bullshit on there being nobody going:"waaiit a second!" and making a magical bayonette), why bother with the sword?
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erik
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What is so great about bayonets? You can turn rifles into spears with them but s'far as I know, that is not like a sword which can do slicing attacks. And in tight corridors a rifle isn't ideal and likewise a pokey blade on the end of a rifle. I would imagine magic machetes would be the standard as a handy urban tool to cut things be they bad guys or doors.
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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

because you can make something that is shooty stabby and a bit choppy as wekk. iz proppa orky zat. And if it becomes too tight? take it off the gun and just use it as choppy stabby without the shooty bitz.
Yeah, machete would be a good allrounder too, but i stay with my reasoning that it is better to have something attached to something you will probably want in your hands in about 90% of the situations you are going to get into.
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Zaranthan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It could even be standard kit rather than something you swap in, as SR posits bayonets that don't interfere with firing the gun at all (as opposed to Real Life, where even if the barrel isn't blocked, the extra weight at the end can throw off your aim).
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...is the dead guy posthumously at fault for his own death and, due to the felony murder law, his own murderer?

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OgreBattle
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Zaranthan wrote:
It could even be standard kit rather than something you swap in, as SR posits bayonets that don't interfere with firing the gun at all (as opposed to Real Life, where even if the barrel isn't blocked, the extra weight at the end can throw off your aim).


Been reading about it and one of the big things with attachments is how it affects barrel vibration and targeting. Some older guns like moist nuggets were made with the bayonet in mind so taking the bayonet off made the sights innacurate.

Yeah a magic or hi tech bayonet at the end of a rifle for close combat is also cool imagery. Singapore's Ultimax 100 light machinegun can attach a bayonet so you can fight like a space elf phoenix lord but nobody does that in real life


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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Ultimax 100 uses the standard M-16 bayonet, which looks retarded. It's literally a dagger that you stick on the end of your rifle.



There are good theoretical reasons why you'd want your bayonet attachment to pop off and be a serviceable combat knife, but I can't help but think that you could do better by having a bayonet that was just the blade and didn't have the handle. And then you could have your backup combat knife be a switch blade so you'd have the same amount of volume.


This Napoleonic-era bayonet seems more reasonable.

In any case, my thoughts for weaponry was that pretty much everyone was going to be using either futuristic weaponry as a main or using the kinds of guns we have now as dispoasble fire-and-forget weapons. That you wouldn't bother reloading an M-16 or whatever, you'd just unload the clip and throw it away.

With the breakup of the United States, it is trivial to get your hands on military weapons, so people aren't using AR-15s and other "nearly military grade but technically not" weapons. There just are vast piles of old 20th century style machine guns and such around, unlicensed, and untracked. But you can also get your hands on the futuristic weaponry that the United States was going to fight World War III with before it collapsed and the weird militarized police equipment the United States filled up on.

So to me, the coolest futuristic weapons are:

  • Laser Weapons
  • Gauss Weapons
  • Spray Weapons
  • Sonic Weapons


Now as far as Bayonets go, Lasers and Sonic weapons are essentially recoilless, which means that modifying the mass of the shooty end is not really a problem. In fact, a laser almost doesn't need a barrel at all, the battery pack doesn't need to be weighing down the arm you're aiming with and can be a back pack. There are physics reasons why your laser can't just be an LED and a lens, but it can be almost that. The fact that the laser doesn't need to come from the end of your weapon can make Laser Swords a fairly reasonable thing. You put the laser part in the handle, connected to a battery pack by a cord, and then you have a fucking katana blade that the laser shoots along the length of. The sword is used to sight along and increase accuracy because the entire mechanism fits into the pommel.

Spray weapons sometimes have a pretty serious kick, it's best to be braced against something while letting loose with a fire hose, for example. But for a lot of spray weapons the material coming out is the point and it hardly needs to be pressurized at all.


High volume pepper spray is well known as something you can do stroll-bys with.

I can't really think of a reason you'd want to put a blade on your spray nozzle, but it doesn't seem impossible that such a thing might be viable. I find it more likely that you'd end up with a "spray shield" as some sort of riot shield that also sprayed corrosives into the general vicinity of people who were on the wrong side of it. That seems like the kind of crazy gadget American police forces might actually come up with before things completely fall apart.

Metalstorm weaponry already has the thing where the barrel is the magazine, which means that much of the weapon is intended to break off and get thrown away. I coule totally see a thing where the tubes themselves were sharp at the end and intended to be pulled off and stabbed or thrown at people like javelins once emptied.

And well, Gauss Weapons are high velocity slug throwers, but they are also precision electronic equipment with a series of delicately calibrated magnets. I don't think hitting people with gauss rifles is ever going to be considered a good idea.

-Frank
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