WTB After Sundown MC

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu May 19, 2011 9:48 pm

Anyone up for After Sundown MCing on the forum? Obviously Frank preferred above most anyone, but based on ignoring the question in the thread, I assume he is too busy or doesn't want to.

So, person, I summon you.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Thu May 19, 2011 9:51 pm

I've run After Sundown pretty successully in person before. I would be up for running on the Den, but I've never run an online game before. What's your preferred arrangement?

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Thu May 19, 2011 9:54 pm

I wouldn't mind playing, to test the system out. Note that this would not be a stupid character like the last game Kaelik and I played.

angelfromanotherpin · Thu May 19, 2011 10:06 pm

I want in.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu May 19, 2011 10:12 pm

After Sundown runs well without a battle map, so that's cool, could probably be done by skype, or by posting on forum, either way.

Before I have any for sure character ideas, I have the questions I need Frank to answer in the thread, though since you have run it, could you tell me how you answer those questions?

EDIT: Also, obviously would need to know game start and such, but yeah, you know what I mean.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Thu May 19, 2011 10:30 pm

I vote for playing some way that allows you to post the session. Because it's totally a democracy.

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:05 pm

I also want in.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:11 pm

To answer your questions, Kaelik:

You can learn any discipline or sorcery regardless of what monster type you are. In fact, some monsters inherently get sorceries with a different power source than their own power source. (Androids are infernal, but get Rising Wind, which is astral.)

I don't care what agreements players make among themselves regarding advancement card distribution, but I wonder if you actually understand how it works. Cards are generated at a fixed rate, and tokens at a rate which is much greater. A typical session of my last game generated 4-5 advancement cards and 9 tokens. If players agree not to bid up prices, then the group earns 4-5 advances per session. If half of the cards get bid up to 2 or 3 while others go for 1... the group still earns 4-5 advances per session.

I'm interested to hear from Frank about how skill modifiers are supposed to work for powers. Specializations are one issue, but so are passive discipline bonuses. For now, I'm going to say that Discipline rolls never benefit from specializations or suffering defaulting penalties. I *think* for the sake of simplicity that I will allow them to benefit from passive magic modifiers, but I need to check to make sure nothing crazy happens with stacking social bonuses or with the +9 passive animal ken.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:33 pm

Orion wrote:I don't care what agreements players make among themselves regarding advancement card distribution, but I wonder if you actually understand how it works. Cards are generated at a fixed rate, and tokens at a rate which is much greater. A typical session of my last game generated 4-5 advancement cards and 9 tokens. If players agree not to bid up prices, then the group earns 4-5 advances per session. If half of the cards get bid up to 2 or 3 while others go for 1... the group still earns 4-5 advances per session.

That's certainly possible, but it could be the case that the card numbers are larger than the number of tokens, None of the methods specify a number of cards, so that could be much higher, and in particular, minimum advancement has the potential to allow players to eventually make use of all their tokens at a rate of one per card, even if not immediately.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:42 pm

More stuff: I've never had a good experience running a tabletop session with more than 5 players. I'm open to persuasion that online big groups are more manageable, but otherwise I'm gonna try to keep to five or fewer players.I currently live in Chicago, and will probably set the game there.

I find that this game works best when players really start with a feeling of shared history and there's a "theme" to the group. Because the characters are emotionally unstable, highly independent, and morally complicate,d things get get fractious and meandering real fast if the PCs don't *feel* like a coterie.

In the past I've gotten around this by pre-assigning a theme and laying out some "archetypes" for players to pick from. For example, in my last game, I told the players "the PCs should all have experience fighting demons and the King of Three Shadows." Then I gave them these five profiles to choose from:

The Protector

This character is the coterie's liaison with the Stellar Oracles, who will feed the group a lot of missions and tips. Takes fighting evil seriously and has some experience, but probably maintains connections to mortal life, as the Oracles value humans and their tips are infrequent. Probably has good knowledge of, and connection in, the city.

Cult Affiliation: Stellar Oracles
Covenant: Probably Carthian or Camarilla
Suggested Types: Reborn, Nosferatu, Bagheera

The Vigilante

This character has a personal grudge against the King of Three Shadows. The Vigilante probably started out living a rough life, before getting fucked over further by the powers of hell. Alternately, someone from comfortable roots who lost everything. Either way, this person is consumed by an endless personal war against demons, and knows their havens and battlegrounds.

Cult Affiliation: Probably none, but possibly Black Spot or Laughter Factory Covenant: Cauchemar
Suggested Types: Fallen, Nezumi, Icarid

The Archivist

This guy knows a lot about supernatural goings-on and can be used for exposition drops. This is a good opportunity for a more "magician"-feeling, badass longcoated type. He's been contracted by the Oracles for his assistance.

Cult Affiliation: Daziban, Ulmi, or Hollow Ones stand out, but any cult with a focus on research could do.
Covenant: Makhzen or Cauchemar
Suggested Types: Baali, Troglodyte, Frankenstein

The Black Sheep

This guy is a member of Chicago's Sabbat Flock who has begun to suspect that his Priests may be working with the King of Three Shadows, and is willing to go outside his covenant for help.

Cult Affiliation: Any or none, but especially Ulmi, False Face, Black Hand
Covenant: Covenant
Suggested Types: Strigoi, Werewolf, Khaibit

The Social Climber

The guy is aiming to advance in rank in his covenant by making himself useful to whomever is in charge of the affected areas.

Cult Affiliation: None, or Coronis, Setite, or Rolnicy
Covenant: Makhzen or Cauchemar
Suggested Types: Anything really, but especially Deep One, Daeva, or Android

If people don't object, I'll probably throw out a new theme and pack of archetypes for this game. If they do--well, fine, but it's on you guys to tie our characters together.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Thu May 19, 2011 11:46 pm

Right. I always used "minimum coverage", so for me it was a fixed ratio of 5 cards = 9 tokens.

Now, some cards *did* get left on the table--not because nobody had any chips left, but because people were hoarding. This especially happened to "+1 language" cards because I did a poor job of including non-English speakers. You could correct that by a coercive agreement which somehow forced a player to buy it. Or, I could houserule the minimum bid to = 0.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri May 20, 2011 12:54 am

Orion wrote:Now, some cards *did* get left on the table--not because nobody had any chips left, but because people were hoarding. This especially happened to "+1 language" cards because I did a poor job of including non-English speakers. You could correct that by a coercive agreement which somehow forced a player to buy it. Or, I could houserule the minimum bid to = 0.

Don't do that, because then we will actually get all the cards no matter what happens.

Unless you are actually going to use Minimum Coverage, in which case 1) I hate you*, and 2) I guess it doesn't matter since we could take every card for zero tokens in that case, and it won't be unbalancing.

But yeah, I'm a big fan of Commensurate if you are taking suggestions.

*This is a joke, since people seem to take me seriously.

EDIT: As regards archetypes, I will stab you. Theme is fine, and probably needs to be done, by either us or you, so you is fine, but for sure archetypes will make me stab you, because I don't play awesome games with good character generation and varied characters to play pre gens.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri May 20, 2011 1:58 am

Re-reading your questions from the other thread I should clarify: Sorceries have one power source and they always keep that source. Rising Wind is detected by magnets and countered by salt whether it's cast by a Verbena, a Baali, or a Khaibit. Only the non-sorcery disciplines adapt to their user.

I've never used Commensurate because I wouldn't want to as a player. But as MC it suits me fine, so I will probably go with that.

As for archetypes-- I really don't see how you could have read the posted archetypes and come to the conclusion that they are "pre-gens," but I don't want to clutter this thread debating it. I will probably write archetypes to go with the theme, because I enjoy writing them, but nobody will be required to use them. I will also make a thread in IMHO about archetypes in general to argue about whether enforced archetypes are a good idea in general.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Fri May 20, 2011 2:39 am

If you don't have situations were speaking other languages is useful, language cards should get left on the table. That's a feature. There's no reason for characters to be learning languages when they won't use them.

Also, I want in.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri May 20, 2011 3:39 am

How 'bout this: At least one of the PCs works in Animal Control in Houston. You get reports every time animals do something funky, which is frequently, because Astral energy is saturating the area more all the time. The typical adventure would involve tracking down the swarm, behemoth, or chimera causing the trouble and then some number of complications like

--other supernaturals are trying to capture it
--other supernaturals are using it for some purpose
--it came out of an active maya gate which can be closed or exploited
--it arrived as a consequence of some unrelated fuckery which you can follow up on.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat May 21, 2011 1:52 pm

So no more Chicago?

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sat May 21, 2011 5:30 pm

Kaelik wrote:So no more Chicago?

Yeah, I was wondering that too. Figured the example must be hypothetical.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Sat May 21, 2011 6:09 pm

I'm currently debating between the Limbo-centric game set in Chicago and a Maya-centric game set in Houston. The advantage of the former is that I live here and I have run one before; the disadvantage is that I've run one before. Thus, taking votes.

There's a hypothetical third option of Gloom-centric in Boston or Cuidad de Mexico, but Gloom-centric is more work so I wasn't gonna trot that one out unless the other two flopped.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat May 21, 2011 7:11 pm

1) I suppose I favor the Limbo Chicago route.

2) Are you going to change your specialization stance given Franks comments or no?

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Sat May 21, 2011 10:56 pm

Edit: Let's keep characters on a white-to-gray spectrum. Being willing to kill a dude for his blood or his wallet is fine, let's not get any worse than that. No rape, torture, or mass murder.

Okay, so we're gonna go ahead with a Chicago setting and a general warning that if you don't come up with your own adventures, most plot hooks will be Limbo-related. Go ahead and start making In Media Res characters set in Chicago.

I will try to post a "Chicago By Night" later, but here are the highlights:

Syndicates:

The Southwest areas of Chicago are segregated ethnic neighborhoods. The Mexican, Greek, Polish, and Irish neighborhoods are Covenant-dominated, as you would expect. The Covenant are responsible for the legendary Chicago Democratic Machine, and it's rumored that both Mayors Daley may actually be the same Android.

Cauchemar were in Hyde Park, the neighborhood of University of Chicago, and some of the black neighborhoods.

Makhzen are a big deal in the affluent suburbs to the north of the city.

World Crime League is not really a big thing except in Devon, the Indian neighborhood.

Cults:

A bunch of Ash Walkers emerged from limbo near Chicago in the early 20th century, and influenced the "prosperity gospel" movement among American Evangelicals. They are technically part of the Makhzen now, but neither side is happy with this.

Rumor has it that the infamous Chicago Police riots were fomented by Wrecker moles, although others say that the Covenant hierarchy ordered them.

The False Face has a known lodge outside the city with a functioning Faerie circle. Some think they may be negotiating with Shattered Empire reps.

Chicago has several Italian Mob families, including the Ulmi. The Ulmi in Chicago are also big into medtech.

Both the Order of Marduk and the Stellar Oracles recruit in Chicago's south side and nearby Gary, Indiana, using gangs as contacts and informants.

More later.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sun May 22, 2011 12:59 am

At the moment I've got two character ideas kicking around in my head. Maybe you can tell me which would fit better for the game.

The first is a U of Chicago Department of Astrophysics and Astronomy professor. He became increasingly disillusioned with university politics, and felt that his contributions were undervalued and his personal projects sidelined.

Collecting antique astronomy & astrology books is a hobby, and looking through a rare collection he found a tome that purported to be Faust's "Book of Mephistopheles". A year ago, the 'the stars were right', and he did the ritual 'just for a laugh'.

Now he's a baali witch with the two ifrit core disciplines of Progress of Glass and Trail of Tears. He frequents hard-core S&M clubs just to soak up the pain; what worries him is that he's beginning to like it. His new-found callous and competitive attitude have resulted in significantly more influence at the University. Right now the big concern is the GMT, which it turns out is a [choose your cult or syndicate] project.

The second is a troglodyte with Descent of Entropy and Chasing the Storm. After a few lifetimes of staking out abandoned rural homes and eating travelers who took shelter from the rain, he's been working for the Chicago PD as a forensics analyst, reconstructing scenes while sneaking bodies on the side.

The co-workers are going a bit crazy, though. It started out with sneaking extra doughnuts, but now they're all obese and the office is practically a charcuterie. He's worried that he might be the cause, which would mean that it's well past time to move on before someone resorts to cannibalism and this becomes a full-blown masquerade violation.

Working for the Mob is starting to look pretty good...

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun May 22, 2011 2:25 am

It occurs to me that my presence will most likely make scheduling a pain in the ass, so though I expressed interest early (and still like the idea of playing the game), I'm going to back out. To make life easier for everyone.

Blasted · Post by **Blasted** » Sun May 22, 2011 2:56 am

There are a few of us Oz players on the forum, it might be worth getting someone down here to MC if there's interest.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun May 22, 2011 3:23 am

A Russian Doctor who specialized in radiation poisoning and eventually came to head a unit in Chernobyl, which then ended up waking up post explosion in Limbo for some reason, his first taste of the supernatural. After finding his way back through a lucky run in with mirror goblins on their way out, he found out on the other side that he had experienced severe levels of radiation poisoning. To head off death, he set about inquiring into supernatural life extension, and killed himself to avoid dying.

Dabbles in Death magic and fire explody magic, and took up working for the Order of Daziban. Moved around a bit, and currently in Chicago, because that's where he found the only thing he can't carry, a library in his keeping under the Daziban. Has set himself up with a local Delivery Company as mostly cover.

Currently looking into a rash of completely random (as far as they can tell) fires springing up somehow, which seem to possibly have some bleed over into burning books they don't want burned.

Will figure out connections with others based on others.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Mon May 23, 2011 3:09 am

So we have:

Kaelik: Fallen, Daziban and I'm gonna assume Cauchemar.

Catharz: Maybe a Baali or a Troglodyte. Both of them sounds pretty cool. I'm amused by the idea that the entire coterie might be a secretive department at the U of Chicago (my alma mater).

Quantum: Unknown.

I'm kinda busy, so I'm gonna give people one week to get primary character creation done, IE a playable character sheet. I'll figure out how to upload the sheet I give my players later if anyone is interested.