After Sundown

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:06 am

There's an actual time thing about feeding, so I'm pretty sure that vamps can't feed in combat, nor can baali.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:12 am

Blasted wrote:A thought of concern:
Could a Baali in combat recharge power points. i.e. create a power loop of using power points to cause pain, then regaining power through this.
I'm going to rule, no, it must be a preplanned ritual, but given vampires can feed during combat, would this even be an issue?

FrankTrollman wrote:Feeding – Characters who must feed upon mortals to regain power points have obvious advantages and disadvantages. Firstly, they can often schedule their power gains whenever. People are all over the place and you can take time out of your schedule to devour them whenever you aren't pressed for time. Of course, when you're in polite company or you are pressed for time, that may not be possible. Also, leaving a trail of victims is a dangerous thing to do, even if you have the ability to wipe their memories – it angers people. It angers people who are luminaries. All vampire types are on the Feeding schedule. A character gains one Power Point for every lethal wound box inflicted with the character's idiom. You'll note that a victim always has 10 boxes, and even a starting character's Power Reserve goes up to 13. A character Feeding from a human (or supernal creature with living flesh) can take one Power Point for every wound inflicted, but mostly characters who want to go from empty to full will want to non-fatally feed from more than one mortal. Actual consumption of power points takes place at the rate of 1 power point every 12 seconds (1 turn during high resolution action scenes), and requires consumption during the entire period. The wound need not be inflicted in bite size pieces – it is entirely possible to cause someone a single Serious wound (6 boxes) and then lick the blood up for 72 seconds to gain 6 power points.

So yeah, according to the feeding rules, you actually CAN feed during combat. It's just usually unwise, since you basically wind up spending your whole turn doing nothing but gaining 1 PP. My only question here, is whether that's something Baali can just do, if they're in close proximity to fresh injuries, or if they need to be more involved in the process.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:17 am

I kinda figured Baali just sort of soak the pain up fairly passively given that it's said to have a range of a meter per Potency. Although, with that said, I'm afraid there is precedent for characters essentially being flat out incapable of using certain powers, like a bloodless android, golem or ghost being in eligible to use Gift of Health or Blood of Acid in exchange for immunity to Theft and Blood Puppets (which as written targets human extras anyway, and so is kind of a bullshit non-bonus). Although admittedly I'd rather go that route than rely on Gift of Health for Restoration to work.

Speaking of which, as far as quick feeding goes the best option is definitely Theft of Vitae, since it's merely a Complex Action and net hits can let you break the 1 Power Point a round barrier. If you're jacked up on Celerity for other reasons you can suck people dry relatively quickly although obviously you start out 3 points in the hole that way.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:53 am

Ah, ok, I mis-remembered.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:43 pm

I'm sorry, I meant passively as in they just have to be within range and not be busy rather than needing theatrics. Bad choice of words on my part.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:21 pm

Does anyone have much of an idea of when the Vow of Silence started in the setting? I've been trying to figure out how it (and the Makhzen-Covenant Wars) would interact in the year 1500, especially in Spain when the Inquisition is just beginning and kicking out the Muslims/Jews.

Blasted · Post by **Blasted** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:56 pm

Now I have a campaign, rather than a bunch of 1off games,
I have some more questions:

1. pg. 170 under Major Arcana, apparently you can "Learn a Basic or Advanced [power|sorcery] you used this chapter" Does this mean gain one in a category (Clout, Veil, Coil of Thorns, etc.) used this chapter or does it mean to advance a power which can be selected twice, or is there a way for characters to use powers which they don't currently have.

2. Celerity's "Quicken Sight" power allows the character to negate any bonuses opponents would glean from multiple attacks during an initiative pass. I've been playing that that there is no bonus from multiple attackers, or is there a way to gain multiple attacks/pass which I've missed?

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:02 pm

Which method is ideal for seduction? Appeal to Appeal, Emotion, or Style?

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:53 pm

Seduction isn't an argument, it's currying favor, so I'd say treat it as a potential outcome of doing well with Friendly Banter.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:24 pm

New World, before the Spanish Conquest. The False Face is stated as the Syndicate dominant north of the Rio Grande. Who was dominant in South America? The Daeva may have been the major leaders, but what other supernaturals were there? Reborn & Bagheera are obvious choices, as would be werewolves after the Vikings introduced themselves to the Americas.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:37 am

virgil wrote:New World, before the Spanish Conquest. The False Face is stated as the Syndicate dominant north of the Rio Grande. Who was dominant in South America? The Daeva may have been the major leaders, but what other supernaturals were there? Reborn & Bagheera are obvious choices, as would be werewolves after the Vikings introduced themselves to the Americas.

You'd have daeva and baali masquerading as gods, bagheera jaguar warriors. Those would be the primary supernatural types; they'd probably comprise their own syndicate & rule over normal humans.

Reborn (sacrifices), deep ones, golems, fallen, werewolves (coyotes & Mexican wolves), androids, Frankensteins (sacrificial corpse constructs), wererats, troglodytes, and migo could easily feature as well. There's too much blood in Mesoamerican agriculture, so verbena would probably be rare. Striogi, nosferatu, necromancers, and children of aether would probably be unheard of.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:53 am

Think you're pretty much on the mark with most of that, but necromancers (Khaibit) unheard of? Sacrifice means Death, after all... and there's a reason why the name for the realm of Death, 'Mictlan', comes from the Aztecs. There are Khaibit all over the place; they tend to be priest-types.

EDIT: for that matter, there's a reason why the name for the dream world is 'Maya', as well. There are Dryads in South America.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:19 am

My concern with any of the leviathans in the New World is their clear origin in Mesopotamia through Tiamat. If there are no strigoi or nosferatu in the New World, then there shouldn't be any troglodytes and their ilk.

Blasted · Post by **Blasted** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:28 am

Given 2-3 thousand years, I would certainly expect to see Deep Ones, travelling over the ocean floor. You could see MiGo, if they could fly that far. Certainly possible over the Bering Straight. I don't see any way of having Troglodytes though.

There is always "They travelled through Maya/Limbo/Mictlan" which works for everyone.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:31 am

virgil wrote:My concern with any of the leviathans in the New World is their clear origin in Mesopotamia through Tiamat. If there are no strigoi or nosferatu in the New World, then there shouldn't be any troglodytes and their ilk.

Well, I think the main differences between trogs and people are that:

1) They are much more capable of moving from one far place to another.
2) They might have access to the Maya, which would allow them to accidentally move from one continent to another by land.
3) If a single Trog shows up, than lots of natives could become trogs off that.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:05 am

All of those arguments of traveling through the other worlds or just plain traveling across the sea (above or below) apply just as readily to Daeva, who do not breathe, fly by default, and can spread almost as fast as lycanthropes. If every Daeva older than 500 years is explicitly Native American, then the same logic applies in reverse.

In fact, going by the secret histories mentioned, the first jaguar warrior to turn into a Bagheera is when he defended himself against a Cortez, so there's a real question as to whether there were even any before then.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:05 am

Tezcatlipoca would have been an Ifrit or Baali (with Smoking Mirror as an Elder power). According to Wikipedia a major sacrifice involved death by ritual combat; those are the two supernatural types that can benefit.

Ditto for Huehueteotl (burned sacrifices) and Tlaloc (tears of children; burned sacrifices).

The classic sacrifice involved both cannibalism and bloodletting. Going by that, the Mesoamerican gods are Baali/Ifrit, Akuma/Troglodytes, and Daeva. My inclination is to say Baali, Troglodytes, and Daeva, because it reinforces the Conquistadors' misconception that they were all demons.

Troglodytes would also have existed in the Americas as Wendigo.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:03 am

Endovior wrote:Think you're pretty much on the mark with most of that, but necromancers (Khaibit) unheard of? Sacrifice means Death, after all... and there's a reason why the name for the realm of Death, 'Mictlan', comes from the Aztecs. There are Khaibit all over the place; they tend to be priest-types.

Yeah, I can't agree with this strongly enough. Just about every culture is going to end up having khaibit equivalent witches running around because khaibit are basically shaman right out of the box. Not everyone is going to have the opportunity to actually pose as/be Tezcatlipoca and there's bound to be people practicing the classic shaman/witch doctor shtick because the afterlife and the Medicine and Survival skills are all obviously going to be super attractive to some luminary at some point. As such, I categorically reject the notion that there's no necromancy/ancestor based divination. That shit is just silly.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:37 am

Whipstitch wrote:
Endovior wrote:Think you're pretty much on the mark with most of that, but necromancers (Khaibit) unheard of? Sacrifice means Death, after all... and there's a reason why the name for the realm of Death, 'Mictlan', comes from the Aztecs. There are Khaibit all over the place; they tend to be priest-types.
Yeah, I can't agree with this strongly enough. Just about every culture is going to end up having khaibit equivalent witches running around because khaibit are basically shaman right out of the box. Not everyone is going to have the opportunity to actually pose as/be Tezcatlipoca and there's bound to be people practicing the classic shaman/witch doctor shtick because the afterlife and the Medicine and Survival skills are all obviously going to be super attractive to some luminary at some point. As such, I categorically reject the notion that there's no necromancy/ancestor based divination. That shit is just silly.

You don't need Khaibit to have ancestor-based divination, but you're still right. The cultural traction of taking drugs, going into a coma, and then being able to access the spirit world--with regular use of narcotics--is universal. It's unlikely that they'd play a significant role in the upper levels Aztec syndicate, although the high priest of the Flayed God would probably be a necromancer.

Khaibit would be more prevalent in outlying groups. They would have allied with the Covenant to take down the existing order, and probably had a hand in shaping what became the Mexican Covenant.

Verbena would probably also number in the noble/priest class. Their own secret history would involve something about a magic kernel created from blood and maize by the gods.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:42 am

Possible trick and concern: activate Giant Size while holding someone.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:55 am

Probably goes without saying, but the likely optional powers of your random In Media Res equivalent Khaibit shaman would probably be Astral shit like Strange Brew, and Call of the Wild or Chasing the Storm powers. Chasing the Storm in particular is a noteworthy power set for everyone, actually. Without the Vow of Silence, refrigeration or the Agricultural Revolution cramping your style being in the Rain Mafia is basically living the dream.

Anyway, let's talk lycanthropes since you seem a teeny bit concerned about not contradicting the origin entries. Between Nagual and Skin-Walkers the Americas should be filthy with shapeshifters regardless, it's just that in the navajo flavor, at least, you pick up a Beast Form by making sacrifices and becoming a Witch rather than getting mauled under the light of the full moon by some guy named Sven. That way you can still have your shape-shifting flavor but play off the full-on Offensive to Animals dedicated combat monsters as something that came about once shit got sufficiently real that someone felt compelled to do some kind of crazy ass mighty ritual.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:23 am

Endovior wrote:EDIT: for that matter, there's a reason why the name for the dream world is 'Maya', as well. There are Dryads in South America.

I believe that actually refers to a Hindi thing, not "The Mayans." And a Wiki search shows, yeah, maya refers to a whole load of eastern things, most notably "the principal concept which manifests, perpetuates and governs the illusion and dream of duality in the phenomenal Universe" in Hinduism and Sikhism.

Endovior · Post by **Endovior** » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:45 am

Hmm, fair point. You're probably right, but I'd bet that there's an absurd number of Maya portals in the Amazon jungle anyway, so there are plenty of Dryads regardless.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:51 am

Does blood imbued through Gift of Health have an expiration? I'm imagining someone carrying around a vial of maximally Vigor'd blood; and were they to have gotten ahold of blood imbued by one of the higher potency vampires out there, that's a very powerful strength potion you're now quite addicted to.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:59 am

virgil wrote:Does blood imbued through Gift of Health have an expiration? I'm imagining someone carrying around a vial of maximally Vigor'd blood; and were they to have gotten ahold of blood imbued by one of the higher potency vampires out there, that's a very powerful strength potion you're now quite addicted to.

You imbue a single power point into a blood sample. Presumably you can carry around a lot of blood, but it would probably be a bit less than the amount of human blood a vampire would need to drink to get that much power.

Each point would be about 200 ml (average human has ~5 L of blood; 40% blood loss can be fatal; 10 power points drained can be fatal). Because a character can give up all 13 pp, the volume of blood is probably closer to 150 ml for a normal vampire.

The blood of a Potency 3 vampire will be ~100 ml per point, so your +6 Strength potion is about 600 ml of blood. One of these: