Heartbreaker Setting Game [3.TGD d20]

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Judging__Eagle
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Heartbreaker Setting Game [3.TGD d20]

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Setting:
Cosmology: 3.5 DMG Planar Cosmology [more inclusive than actual D&D material, I want to fit in more than just Greek, Norse, Babylonian, Hindu and modern mythologies; I'm probably going to be changing some things; changing the nine hells to be the six cold and six hot hells is one idea). The material partitions the alignments among themselves, allowing players and mister caverns to understand what it means when you say you're for LE: Seven Hells of the Inferno vs LE: Ba'atezu (The first, you like the idea of might/law used to gain personal power at the cost of others; the second, you favour Ba'atezu as the ones in charge of such an organization; the Inferno possibly has as many rival LE Fiends as it it has LE: Ba'atezu; they are simply not talked about).

I'm doing some research online on how best to draw what these places look like for players; as well as trying to find shorthand symbols for the outer planes.

Alignments & Actions: Alignments are based on the Outer Plane that a character wishes to be Aligned with. Unaligned creatures are very rare, and usually end up in the Astral until they can decide where to go; or may move on at-random (decided between character actions).

I'm contemplating giving PCs Good, Evil, Law and Chaos points; as well as Points for using, or interacting, with things related to the Inner and/or Transitive Planes. Stuff like this is gained at a rate of +1/session.

I'm not sure how these Alignment Points will work though. Maybe as Action Points that are usable on a per/day|adventure basis, when used to commit more acts of the type of Action Point Alignment used. Good Action Points work for Good Things, but Not Evil things, or Non-Good, Non-Evil, things.

Players will have to notify the MC if they are trying to earn/spend Alignment Action Points. A random +1d6 before a Dice roll is confirmed/failed.

Critical Failures, DC Ranges, and Action Points:

Action Points should be... Actiony. Earned by action; and spent in "action" type scenes.

In stories, we like to see consistency in action.

Watching Conan critically fail; and miss with a sword; and possibly sprain a muscle from swinging and hitting the stone floor with his Adamantine sword is something people can expect, and understand.

Having Conan critically fail, and throw his sword across the room is... really lame. So lame in fact, that only assholes and idiots seriously use critical fumble rules.

Ideally, Action Points would be achieved when performing a task in an Active manner, well. Which can then be used on other checks. Having a PC build up action points at a rate of 1/Round is reasonable; but I actually prefer 1/Action that Supercedes DC, and Highest Attack Roll Difference/Round. So that performing many actions well in a scene has increasing benefits; and creatures with "attacks > reasonable (1-2 per BaB breakpoint)" don't rake in Action Points hand over fist.

The commando team breaking and entering into a location with clockwork rhythm; the Fighter who has found their stride and has found some advantage for this combat; the Mage whose spells have flared with power due to the winds of Magic. As well as penalties, like suddenly spraining a limb, or Magic going sideways all of a sudden.

Every +1 Beyond DC: One Action Point Dice per 1 over DC for all actions of this type for this Scene. Action Point Dice may be spent on any Dice Roll that supersedes a needed DC in a particular scene. This includes beating an opposed check.
Meet DC: Normal Success
Fail by >5, +2 to Next Check
Fail by 5, +1 To Next Check
Fail by <5, Lose an Action Point Dice, Earn a Negative Action Point Dice
Fail by 10< Cannot be an Action Point Check for the scene, Lose an Action Point Dice, if you have no APD, Earn a Negative Action Point Dice

Potentially, this could be an effective way to normalize dice results into something that resembles the action sequences we wish D&D could look like.

I'm not sure how it will work out though.

=================

PCs:

Tiny, Bugbear Assassin 10

Death Attack Every Round:
I think that I've found a rather decent combo for an Assassin, Murderous Intent; and Greater Invisibility, make for much more effective Death Attacks; allowing this character the ability to DA every round it makes an Analysis; the order of operation being:


1. Layered Invisibility + Greater Invisibility (to remain Invisible; one gear slot is dedicated to an assortment of wands; Invisiblity is cast between fights, and G. Invis is cast 1/minute via Wand (we roll a pair of d10's to determine how much time is left on both spells at the start of an encounter if it's not immediately easy to adjucate when the encounter happens during the duration's cycle).

2. Analyse Targets seen; almost any target qualifies as being "Denied their Dexterity Modifier" due to being Invisible; Full Round Action

3. End of round: Attack of Opportunity on Analyzed target.

4. Remain Invisible,

5. Select next target.

6. If still Invisible. Go to 2. Else cast G. Invis (Combat Time) or Invis (Adventure Time).
Tiny does other typically Assassin things; use poisons on pre-adventure prepared hand-crossbow bolts; disable devices; use magic devices; scout/watch.


Ignus

Fire Lich, Fire Mage 10

Shoots fire. I'll have to see how it all pans out in the end. So far, I know that they can blast stone walls apart. That helped the group create a hole in a wall through which the Golem they were trying to relocate was lured out.

Kanator, Human Fighter 10

Uses a Ruinous Chain to bypass DR, has a bunch of senses beyond most PCs, monster ID knowledge skills at +21 modifer before gear (2 slots left unused for skill boosting gear).

Feats:
6 defensives
Iron Will
Great Fort
Lighting Reflexes
Danger Sense
Elusive Target
Blindfighting

4 Offensive
Intelligent Fighter
Subtle Cut
Murderous Intent
Blitz

Which is a pretty typical Fighter feat spread; with so many feats, the Defensive feats that are actually good spring out at the Player to give their non-caster character better suvivability. Fighters get all three save-boost feats; because they can afford to; and they can't super specialize in say one save, like a Barbarian can. Nor can they say "f u" to enemy spells like some of the other classes can.
I'm auditing the character though, they marked Hide as a class skill; when it most certainly is not. Fighters who want to Hide for reals, need to dip Rogue, or have an appropriate background.

Geared for flying and underwater work, has blitz and sub. cut to keep their damage higher; can ID monsters, and has more than good enough saves (F 18, R 15 (Evasion), W 17 (Slippery Mind)).

Sensory Suite:

Darkvision 60
Blindsense 60
Tremorsense 30
See Invisibility

Very effective passive sensors imo.

The Kinhunter Bronze Red Dragon Dragon 10

Bronze Dragon, reskinned to red. Batcave with [some] Dragonscale Shirts. Is Large, hunts other Dragons. Sort of interesting, a Dragon Dragonhunter

Creature is based on the CR 9 Bronze Dragon, changed to have 10 HD (with appropriate changes to Saves, HP, Skill Ranks, BaB, etc.).

I'm going with the following idea: Dragons grow in power in one of two manners: sleeping, which leads to growing in physical size, and power; or adventuring, which increases power directly, but involves greater personal risk.

The Death Star, Cleric 5, Ogre Mage 5.

The Huge, Invisible, Flying, Bow cleric is pretty effective, on paper. I have yet to get this to the game, the most recent PC added to the campaign.

Wears Regalia of the Phoenix, has the ability to approach and accost Efreeti for Wishes; familiar is a large Pyro-Hydra. Cleric is one of Luck and Trickery; making the whole theme of "Looks like a Fire using cleric, what is really a fan Cold spells as well" very much in character. This character concept has many possible options.

Tactics are pretty simple, Hydra engages targets, Cleric fires arrows while Invisible.

======================


Adventure Ideas:

Character Based:

Explore the Planes that the PCs are related to.

Tiny, Bugbear Assassin: Having a powerful Bugbear assassin in the warparty can allow organizations to hire the group as Diplomats on Acheron. Of course, the PCs need to be able to appear too powerful to be challenged by random Bugbear bravos while amidst the Warcubes of Hruggek.

Ignus: Things related to Undead, Fire, being Skeletor. This is actually good and handy for me to know

The Huge Flying Archer-Cleric Death Star: Anything trying to get the rest of the group into the Wish Economy via Efreeti-beating, also hunting on the Plane of Fire; or Trickery/Luck related things.

Kinhunter Bronze Red Dragon: Anything to do with hunting Dragons, or prepping for a Dragonhunt.

Fighter: Anything pretty much anything that might lead to power gain. Also Murder, or NE. Not sure which NE plane fits the character best, so far.
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Sessions so far:

1st.

Tiny, Ignus, Kanator, The Air Elemental, and The Dragon-man

Goal: lure a stone golem out of a home, without wrecking too many things. Walls are solid stone; the golem needs to be outside the structure and above 0 HP for this to count as a success.

Results: Success, no injuries or casualties; final actions were completed in 2 rounds.
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Re: Heartbreaker Setting Game [3.TGD d20]

Post by RobbyPants »

Judging__Eagle wrote:I'm contemplating giving PCs Good, Evil, Law and Chaos points; as well as Points for using, or interacting, with things related to the Inner and/or Transitive Planes. Stuff like this is gained at a rate of +1/session.

I'm not sure how these Alignment Points will work though. Maybe as Action Points that are usable on a per/day|adventure basis, when used to commit more acts of the type of Action Point Alignment used. Good Action Points work for Good Things, but Not Evil things, or Non-Good, Non-Evil, things.
How would you make them work, though, especially with regard to Law or Chaos? It seems entirely arbitrary to decide what is a Lawful or Chaotic deed, and it seems like it's just inviting arguments at the gaming table. I'd just use the Action Points you were talking about and call it a day. I see no real gain for throwing in a subjective layer on top of it for no real reason.

Judging__Eagle wrote:Watching Conan critically fail; and miss with a sword; and possibly sprain a muscle from swinging and hitting the stone floor with his Adamantine sword is something people can expect, and understand.

Having Conan critically fail, and throw his sword across the room is... really lame. So lame in fact, that only assholes and idiots seriously use critical fumble rules.
Well, I agree with your second statement, but I also feel the first is equally lame. I mean, yeah, Conan can miss, but do we really need him causing injury to himself on a fumble? I always thought those were the worst fumble rules.
Last edited by RobbyPants on Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

I'm going to go by the traditional outline of what Alignments are: The Plane with which you are Aligned.

Law/Order/Death/Reliableness/Duty of Law vs Chaos/Entropy/Birth/Unpredictableness/Freedom of Choce

Well, the fumble I'm describing would be more of "you can't add action points to this ability for this scene, b/c you did something badly". So, more of an inability to buff a certain type of check, not any actual penalties. Having fumble rules that do anything more than a single type of change in action, or even actual penalties to actual modifiers is annoying to have to recalculate.

Frank's assertation that subtraction is the bane of good game design makes a lot of sense.


.....

Which is frustrating, since I want the math to go from Addition, to Multiplication, to Exponential, and then Deriviation.

With regards to hits within dice pools. So... Mortal Tier Dice Pools add up their hits across all pools used. Heroic Dice pools multiply hits in each pool used. Legendary Dice Pools go exponential in some manner. While Epic powers are Derivatives of Legendary equations.

Not the brightest idea; but with dice pools going from 1-5 dice; replaceable with a single Zenith Dice (1d6, Dice Value indicates amount of successes for that pool); the total amount of dice rolled will be lower than in other systems, even at high levels of power. Having a character roll 4d6 to resolve their actions at very high level play to get 4-24 hits (avg 14 hits) is a good thing imo.

The idea being that playing at different power levels should feel different at all levels of game play; as well as separate tiers from each other (for the most part; creatures who have reached the Zenith in an ability may use the normal Dice Pool as if it were 1 tier higher, when attacking/defending against creatures that are higher in Tiers. So, Mortal Adventurers can potentially challenge Heroic Opponents; without also being Heroic Adventurers themselves. Meaning that Mortal Opponents, like bandits with Crossbows, are still a potential danger.

Of course, this is still in development. Really, I think that making the Zenith something that allows a creature to "operate" at a higher tier for one specific power; without also being on that tier; is fine. Giving out 1d6 Hits should be something to get if you have the Zenith in an ability; that you also have bought higher tier dice pools.

So, a Heroic Melee Attack is 1 Hit "against all adjacent targets"; but a Zenith Mortal Attack gives 1-6 Melee Hits.

Or... something. Delineating the difference between the different power levels/Tiers is something I want to make sure is clear.

Tiers should be separate, but have overlaps where 'weaker' creatures can challenge 'stronger' creatures. So that a campaign could be maintained at a certain power level, while more powerful opponents are still able to make an appearance without TPKing the party.
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Post by Blicero »

Just wanna point out that "Deriviation" is not a word; the proper term is "differentiation."
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Post by ...You Lost Me »

DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
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Post by Blicero »


Yes, "derivation" is a word. However, derivation is used the vast majority of the time in math and physics to denote the process of using some formula or theorem to develop other formulæ or theorems. Ie, the primary definition of the link you gave under "Mathematics." The process of calculating derivatives is usually labeled as differentiation.

It's kind of a shitty and confusing namingsystem, but a system in which "differentiation" refers to the process of calculating derivatives and "derivation" refers to the process of developing formulæ is still much less confusing in which "derivation" can be used to refer to both.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

In any case, basic calculus bulldirt nomeclature problems aside; I want a ridiculous level of math, for different parts of the game; meant to keep people from buying it, even if they can afford to get it, just because it's a bit different to calculate (and can possibly, be cheaper, and more powerful, than lower 'tier' powers.

Like, you use say, Norse Runes as your alphabet, and arrange them in values of one to four; then your words are the values of the operators for the cost of the ability; and any ability can be written, the name resulting in the cost of the ability.

Unusual grammar, and naming will obviously be the result. "Cold Sword" < "Frost Brand", and "Fire guard" < "Heimm rich".

I might simply charge the PC's current XP to buy powers. In a few more sessions I plan on shifting their characters into my own system, and have them have the same powers, handled with a different mechanic that works for the whole system.

(3 CR 10 encounters each PC; I'm throwing equal amounts of monsters at them, of their CR, in order to keep them challenged; and I could easily throw 50% more enemies and they'd still be able to punch through them. Only at about 75-100% might I see them struggle a bit. Currently, they can one-round almost any single thing the entire group can target in one round, and quite a few targets can be dropped by the group per round as well.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Other ideas: Comedy/Cartoon Villany vs Tragic/Realistic/Horror Villany

Sahuagins know that their best bet might be to be eaten by an arch-fiend, unless they become really evil, so they evilly hunt Sea Elves. Of course, this can go one of two ways, tragedy, or comedy. In Comedy, the Sahuagins are basically fish-headed clowns trying to hunt/eat the Sea Elves; that fail spectacularly. Of course, any fish people work as humour foils, the silly fish-heads tripping on spilled slop buckets, or distracted by tipped over chum.

This can be taken to racist extremes, with the example of World of Warcraft's Murlocks reduced to "mrgle, mrgle". The entire species' treatment by Blizzard mimicking older racial slurs against languages unknown by non-speakers. Basically, any time you laugh at Murlock's speech, you're no better than saying anyone who doesn't speak like you is using gobbeldy-[EDITED].

In a tragedy setting, the Sea Devils are frightening predators, and the series takes on more of a Post-Apocalyptic war scenario, much akin to the results of a failed Skynet vs. Human war. Pockets of survivors hiding from the murderous hordes of the enemies above ground.


Which brings me to how I'll approach "villainous" species in my setting. Honestly, I'm not sure, and I like both approaches.
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Post by Akula »

Judging__Eagle wrote:In any case, basic calculus bulldirt nomeclature problems aside
Fuck you, use the nomenclature if you want to use the math. BTW if f(x)=a^x then f'(x)=f'(0)a^x so saying you want to use the derivatives of exponential functions is incoherent, they are also exponential. And, if the base is greater than e, then the derivative of the function is greater than the original function. Also, do you have any conception of how huge a^10 is? Can you even do the math you want?

Frankly, everything I read about this makes me think that you are an idiot with horrible design goals, and no fucking idea how to make a decent game. I hope this game never sees the light of day, as it will make the hobby poorer. I also hope that this thread never sees another post, as it similarly makes this board poorer.
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Post by Neurosis »

Those are some REALLY fascinating PCs.
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Epic Things: From an other Time, and Tongue

Post by Judging__Eagle »

I dunno, I want the Epic stuff to be stuff like....


"Create life, by breathing onto dust. One creature, in your image." [Single Use]

and that costs, some ridiculous cost; which you could have instead spent on buying, you know, a planet, or something; or an other hundred thousand miles in radius of of unclaimed planar territory. all of which would cost insanely large amounts of points.

For "epic" stuff, figuring out a cost wouldn't be that hard; if you give a formula for what word structures cost. Which will consequently lead to the sort ofbizarre grammar that one expects from epic things from an other time and tongue; but at least the system will have a way that it's spells and powers and epic names are designed.

People want bizarre and crazy names; like Blackrazor

Black (5 characters, 1st word = 5^1) [is that easy enough?]
razor (5 characters, 2nd word = 5^2) [still alright with me?]

5^1+5^2 =
=5 + 25
=30

so, Blackrazor; a weapon that has never been costed before, now has a way to be costed. Each rank costs 30 Epic points, and gives 1-step upgrades on 30 Heroic abilities (or greater upgrades to lower step abilities).


Of course, this is all a plan to shift this game into my own tiered dice-pool system. Simple versions have has pretty good success; people like using the same mechanic for all of their powers. Being able to travel, fight, figure out, or otherwise resolve actions based on some sort of fall-back option was pretty good to deal with. Legendary characters can travel a distance that's large if they want to, I don't care if it's Kharne riding on the back of his Juggernaut Herds like an evil surfer in crimson and bronze armour (Barbarian 5/Berzerker 5/Betrayer 5; with Chaotic Bulettes (CR 9 or so?) as their follower horde; and maybe a few with bullette shods of the Zephyrus, and Collars of Khorne (as per Dungeon Crusade).

So.... I guess I'm also making this my version of Dungeon Crusade, Tomes, and hopefully be able to apply WoD stuff; Leviathans to explain Insectoids (like Formians/Myrmidions/Macedonians/Ants; Abeil/Marvignion/Bee-whatever/Advespas; Spiderlings/Arenea/Ettercaps/Jormungo (Congo)/Driders (Nippon)/Bebiliths; etc. for Scorpions, Scorpionfolk, etc.); Sahuagin's effects on the world; and Troglodytes to be the catch-all for all underground dwellers; from actual troglodytes, to Gnomes and Halflings, Dwarves, etc.

Of course, I'll be honest, treating Arborea as an uncaring forest is pretty much how most Fey are described in AWoD, and having them be creatures with bizarre minds compared to mortals is something many people are fine with.

Making Arborea the place where Ysgardian Dveurges, and Beastlands Elves first meet on a planar level is potentially interesting.
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Some thoughts on dividing up character types along the lines I'm using for FAR's basic Active abilities

I'd prefer to use more generalist names for Adventurers, and the Basic nine Active powers are splits from three types (Arms, Work, Energy).

For the most part it will be assumed that an Adventurer will be one of two types: Focused, or Blended. Focused Characters tend to spend more of their training in one field, and gaining the minimal training needed to enhance their Focus; Blended characters will mix and match their training as suits the character.

Armspeople have a focus on one of, or mix of:
-Physique-Force-Might [1 Handed, 1.5 Handed, 2 Handed, Spears, Poles, Thrown, Bows, Heavy Weapons; anything that needs brawn to use, from a Heavy Flamer to a 5' long greatsword]
-Unarmed-Sweet Science-Martial Art [Everything from Shaolin GongFu to Indian Kalarippayattu [progenitor martial art schools], and modern things like Russian Sambo and Krav Maga [pastiches of multiple schools to create specialized proffessional-use schools]; Concealable, 1H, 1.5 H, 2H, Pole, Spear, Improvised, Thrown]
-Technique-Florentine-Niten Ichi-ry&#363; [Concealable, 1H, 1.5H, Spear, Thrown, Firearms, Crossbows, Artillery]

Workers have a focus on, or a mix of:
-Craft-Modify-Invent [Objects, Tools, Machinery; Ideas (?); Art/Poetry (?)]
-Nurse-Mend-Grow [Creatures, Plants, Students, Businesses (?) [really, part of Resources], Organizations [part of Resources], ]
-Pray-Bless-Command [To an Aligned Plane/Diety/Ideology; Pass on prayed for things to others; ask for Intercession (?)]

Energypeople have a focus on, or a mix of:

Cerebro-Electro-Astral [Controlling of own Nerval tissue (eyes, brains, nervous system), and Sensory Organs (Tongue, Ears, Skin, Nose) - Extending of Electro-manipulation to reach outside of body - Exiting Body as an EM form; Also: Darkness, Pin Light, Stars, Lighting, Ghosts, Conductive Metals, Verbal Components, Seven Chakras aligned with the nervous system, Acupuncture; AKA The Head]

Pneuma-Magneto-Bios [Controlling own Body Fluid Systems (Respiration, Circulatory, Lymphatic)- Affecting external energy systems - Manipulation of Biological Systems; Also: Forest, Blood Magic, Moon, Water/Fire, Breathing, Somatic Components, 'Chi' (in the sense of it being "breath" and "flow"); AKA The Trunk]

Inertia-Velocity-Temporal [Controlling of own Digestive/Reproductive Systems and Skeletal System, Controlling own Movement - Controlling Movement in General - Controlling Time-Space; Also: Mountain, Sun, Lava, Birth/Death, Earth, Black/White/Grey, Nirvana, Material Components, Focus on the 'erasing' of oneself]
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Grek »

Hooooo, boy. This is a giant incoherent fucking whirlwind of crazy. In order by section:

Why are you using Great Wheel cosmology? It's got so much ridiculous shit stapled into it that your game is probably never going to use and it requires that anyone that wants to play your game go buy a 3rd edition DnD DMG. Likewise with alignment. Lawful and Chaotic don't mean anything. If you really want to have a 9 point alignment system (which is a terrible idea unto itself), then name the axis that isn't Good vs. Evil something else.

Giving your players Light side and Dark side points could maybe work (it's never worked before, but it could theoretically be made good). Letting your players earn Evil Points for doing Evil Things to people which can then be spent to do Evil Things better/more often is a fucking awful idea, though, because it leads to a singularity of Evil wherein you stab an orphan, get an Evil Point, use the point to mutilate the corpse, get another Evil Point, use that to fuck his eye sockets, get an Evil Point, use that point to put on an offensive puppet show with the now jizzed-in corpse, get an Evil Point... and so on and so on from there. Or they can have some crazy serial killer corpse rape-and-mutilation ritual that they perform after every kill to get maximum Evilz for the boss fight later.

You're terrible at using greater than and less than signs. What you have written there says you win and get +1 point per +1 over the DC*, or fail somehow and get +2 and no penalties if you epically fail (DC-Your Roll>10), get massive pentalties and a +2 (0<DC-Your Roll<10), get huge penalties and a +3 if(DC-Your Roll=5). What the fuck is this shit.

* This is terrible in that you're adding the difference between a random number and another (possibly random) number to a running total each round and then subtracting from it to replace rolls. Don't use this mechanic, it's shitty.

It was only by the time that you got to characters that I finally figured out that you were playing DnD 3.5. So, I retract sentence 2 of my second paragraph and replace it with the following: "Great Wheel is shitty and does not include information about subfactions about alignments. If you're going to put all that effort into coming up with factions, make up a better setting while you're at it, god damn. And why the fuck are ou letting a cleric have a familiar, let alone a pyro-hydra? Argh.

Your Law/Chaos division in your second post is totally incoherent. Order and Entropy aren't ideals, they're properties of matter. You can't be aligned with one or the other, both appy to you. Freedom of Choice neccessarily includes Duty, since if you are not free to do your duties, you do not have a freedom of choice, except for the choice of how you're going to slack off. And that's retarded.

Derivation (or differentiation if you're Bilcero) is not an increase in damage. Based on your further explainations (such as they are), it looks like you want the mean number of hits to go n/3, 3.5n, (3.5)^n, and then n(3.5)^(n-1), which is totally badshit fucking insane, as the order goes Legendary>Epic>Heroic>Mortal for all values of n>1. Seriously, WTF are you even doing this for.

bulldirt: I have nothing further to say to that.

Why the fuck do you want your players to have to learn norse fucking runes to play your game. Is making them do derivates not enough? And seeing as the entire point seems to make your players do interesting things when naming their abilities, I have no idea why you would choose to base the item's abilities and powers based strictly on the number of letters in the words of the name. I mean, I could have a sword called "I Am" under this system, and it would cost me 5 epic points and raise 5 abilities up to being good. Or more legendary abilities, since I'm not retarded and I know that legendary>epic in this system because the derivative of an exponential function produces smaller values than the original function.

I don't even know what to say to your desire to mix DnD, WH40K and aWoD into a single setting/system. So I won't say anything about that except that you are a terrible person for thinking it is a good idea.

Your Arms, Work, Energy classification is as meaningless to me as it is terrible sounding. From the looks of it, it's Fighter/Thief/Mage bullshit again, but with shitty smelling shit covered shit wrapping paper covered in feces. and the word Cerebro-Electro-Astral. I can't even parse enough stuff out of it to critique your design goals/mock it for being terrible.

I fully recomend that you not subject your players to this system, and that you close this thread. For the children.
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Ice9
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Post by Ice9 »

Derivatives? Action Point Dice? Ability cost based on the length of the name? You are starting to approach HYBRID levels of confusing here.

And the FAR system only makes sense if the characters are changing their form and resources with some frequency - a transhumanist setting, for example. Do you actually see that happening?
People want bizarre and crazy names; like Blackrazor
Black (5 characters, 1st word = 5^1) [is that easy enough?]
razor (5 characters, 2nd word = 5^2) [still alright with me?]
...
so, Blackrazor; a weapon that has never been costed before, now has a way to be costed. Each rank costs 30 Epic points, and gives 1-step upgrades on 30 Heroic abilities (or greater upgrades to lower step abilities).
... man what? I can see two ways to interpret this, neither of which is a good system:

A) Cheaper is better. So "Gate" costs much less than "Leomund's Tiny Hut", and so does "Foes Die". :bored:

B) You want the cost to be whatever you can afford, because the more it costs the more it does. In which case it's just a wierd-ass naming convention.
"Hmm, I'll make an ability called Lightning Bolt"
"Wait, it doesn't cost enough, I'll call it Bolt of Lightning"
"Once I can afford it, I'll upgrade to Definitely A Bolt of Lightning"
"I heard somebody made one called Yes, That's Definitely a Bolt of Lightning I'm Frying You With, Guaranteed."
"Liar"

(and why is "Blackrazor" two words?)
Last edited by Ice9 on Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:08 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

I've actually forgotten about the evil/good points. Other changes might include having a creature's current point total and/or how many they have generated over time (in a single incident, many incidents, or constantly) whenever things like Detect Evil are used.

Really, the choice here is to keep players who are "card carrying" evil from being treated the same as actual serial murder torture blood ritualists. Detect Evil already detects power levels of an evil creature, I instead wanted to change it to detect scope of evil committed by a creature. As well as encouraging players to actually play their alignments; most of the time, they act more neutrally than anything else.

The other issues I'll get to in more detail when I return sunday.

I'll say that the stuff for costing Epic stuff only applies to Epic tier, some Epic things will cost less than some Legendary things, but those Epic thing will often have no analog in lower tier, or are the equivalent of comparing Flying at level 5 to to True Planeshift or the ability to create/own a Demiplane at level 16. Sure they cost less, but their effectiveness, power and scope of use is a whole series of steps lower and more tactical than strategic.
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

On Great Wheel Cosmology:

For now, it's a reference point; I want a ring of locations that mark off what is located where in this planar travelling campaign. Actual details that I've supplied to the players are greater than the DMG does, and I've heavily edited the Planar Wheel image and have redrawn the wheel several times to figure out how best to describe all of the areas of the wheel. Taking the DMG and editing the drawing with pen and having an coloured pencil drawing insert with the wheel more detailed (each plane's content being drawn out representetavily, Mechanus is a bunch of gears, Celeststia is a massive mountan made up to seven stacking rings of mountains with the top of the central seventh hidden by clouds, Bytopia is stalagmite/stalactites between two flat planes, The Beastlands is divided into three named and specific zones (for Day, Twilight and Darkness); Ysgard is a net of sprawling flying landmass streams that float on beds of rock and are held up by blazing fires (seriously, I shit you not, that's straight out of the DMG and reminds me of some Heavy Metal stories) all across an infinitely massive clear blue sky.

The description of Ysgard actually allows me to place a very commonly know game world, Azeroth, into the D&D cosmology without any real fuss; it's just a Material Doldrum within Ysgard, bounded by a massive epic ring of silent power. The last time someone tried to "enter" Azeroth, one of potentially many "Ragnarok Test Zones", they needed to use Fiends on the outside, who planeshifted in, using Fiendish and Acheronian Orks.

Later, when the Humans return to the Ork world (WOW: Burning Crusade); they are on .... floating chuncks of the planet... that doesn't need an atmosphere. Although, the maps of the setting could very well indicate that the Ork world was an alternate Ragnarok Test Zone, that tried to expand their sphere of influence and failed.

Over the course of several sessions, the group is in Nippon, then they go to Ysgard, then they travel to the Plane of Fire to pick up some more scrolls and gems off of the Central Efreeti Exchange; then they go to Mechanus to cash in some Inevitable Bounties that they've collected, then to nearby Bytopia to check on the progress of their Dragon Mountain project, and see if their minions need any more help pushing deeper into the Perfect Dungeon. Over the next sessions they get Aboard one of the many "Krakensbane" Class Githai Spelljammers and do a bunch of artifact collecting against Pro-Estachology* Krakenspawn (Krakens trying to bring about the end of the World).

The D&D cosmology covers a wide range of areas and myths, and staying in any one place for too long can get boring unless each area is pretty deeply described. The inclusion of "High Adventure on the Lower Planes" was a phenomenal series of work that really helps people open their eyes about the potential within D&D games.

*:As opposed to Post-Eschatology Krakenspawn who have returned from the pre-Eschaton of a particular material plane and are are the ancestors of "Albino Illithids", or Illithids of the Ivory tower, such as Plato and people who think Machiavelli was being Srs, and not super ironc. Who most likely designed the original series of Krakenslayer ships for the Githai because they specifically do not want the Eschaton to be rushed towards; they just escaped it since they want to remain self-awareness, not get reformed into something they can't predict.
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While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
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