If the magic success rate is changing over time, that is also something you can observe and measure. You'd eventually figure out that A] magic exists, and B] the more often you do magic, the less effective it is. And no, you can't just have at which your success rate decreases go down as well, because you can measure the rate at which that changes to. Since no monotonically decreasing functions have all of their derivatives monotonically decrease, you can't have it be turtles (or decreasing experimental success rates) all the way down either.
Lokathor has it correct. The best way to implement magic which makes you doubt it exists is to make other people refuse to believe you when you try to show them the evidence. And the best way to do that is to make evidence of magic working vanish from the minds of anyone without Hyper Perception.
Doubt Mechanics
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FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
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Josh_Kablack
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You can have secret randomization of ability activation if the randomizer state is changed based on criteria OTHER than the request to use an ability.
For example, you have N playing cards face up behind a screen and a digital watch with a time Every X minutes your watch beeps and you deal a new card to replace one of the face up cards. The suit of the card determines which abilities are currently possible, the rank of the highest card determines what the strongest effect possible for that ability is, and the number of cards of a given suit currently face up determine how many of those abilities can be currently active in the in-game scene.
So the players cannot tell if their ability fails because there are no appropriate suit cards, because there is an appropriate suit card that isn't high enough for the effect, because the appropriate suit cards have been slotted to other effects, or because the ability will never work.
Now, using a watch beeper and limited ability slots for everyone runs into the problem that since the state change is obvious, players should try to be the first to declare things after the beep. So for this sort of setup, I would probably prefer things to be strictly turn-based RPG, where you go around the table and everyone makes a declaration of action, then the MC changes the randomizer state each go round - whether or not the randomizer was consulted.
For example, you have N playing cards face up behind a screen and a digital watch with a time Every X minutes your watch beeps and you deal a new card to replace one of the face up cards. The suit of the card determines which abilities are currently possible, the rank of the highest card determines what the strongest effect possible for that ability is, and the number of cards of a given suit currently face up determine how many of those abilities can be currently active in the in-game scene.
So the players cannot tell if their ability fails because there are no appropriate suit cards, because there is an appropriate suit card that isn't high enough for the effect, because the appropriate suit cards have been slotted to other effects, or because the ability will never work.
Now, using a watch beeper and limited ability slots for everyone runs into the problem that since the state change is obvious, players should try to be the first to declare things after the beep. So for this sort of setup, I would probably prefer things to be strictly turn-based RPG, where you go around the table and everyone makes a declaration of action, then the MC changes the randomizer state each go round - whether or not the randomizer was consulted.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
If the success rate approaches the no magic success rate quickly enough, you will never have enough data to show to a high level of certainty that magic exists. That means that although you you might suspect that the more often you do magic, the less effective it is, you won't be able to prove that there ever was any actual effect anyway.Grek wrote:If the magic success rate is changing over time, that is also something you can observe and measure. You'd eventually figure out that A] magic exists, and B] the more often you do magic, the less effective it is.
If you don't have enough date to prove that your overall success rate is different from what is expected with no magic, you won't have enough data to prove that the success rate is changing either.Grek wrote:And no, you can't just have at which your success rate decreases go down as well, because you can measure the rate at which that changes to.
e^(-x), every derivative has a monotonically decreasing absolute value.Grek wrote:Since no monotonically decreasing functions have all of their derivatives monotonically decrease, you can't have it be turtles (or decreasing experimental success rates) all the way down either.
Monotonically decreasing absolute values are not the same thing as monotonically decreasing values, and you are stupid for suggesting that they are.
But let's get away from the calculus, since that's distracting from the point. The fact is, at least one of these statements will be false no matter how you set up your magic system:
1. When magic occurs, people will eventually notice that magic is occurring and become certain that magic is real.
2. Magic per person is not a finite resource - when you do magic, that does not permanently reduce your ability to do more magic.
3. Magic happening is in some way distinguishable from magic not happening.
There are your options. Either the PCs will eventually catch on that magic exists, OR they will run out of magic forever before noticing they have magic, OR magic has no real effects on the real world and does not actually exist.
But let's get away from the calculus, since that's distracting from the point. The fact is, at least one of these statements will be false no matter how you set up your magic system:
1. When magic occurs, people will eventually notice that magic is occurring and become certain that magic is real.
2. Magic per person is not a finite resource - when you do magic, that does not permanently reduce your ability to do more magic.
3. Magic happening is in some way distinguishable from magic not happening.
There are your options. Either the PCs will eventually catch on that magic exists, OR they will run out of magic forever before noticing they have magic, OR magic has no real effects on the real world and does not actually exist.
FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
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Username17
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Lokathor wrote: Plenty of people in real life already think that they have magical powers, despite not having them. It's very weird to play as characters in an RPG that do have magic powers, and even fight magical threats with those powers, but don't think that they have those magical powers while fighting those magical threats. I think the best route is that, for whatever reason, possibly even for fuzzy magical reasons, the players are simply never ever able to convince sleepers that they have magical powers, despite how much they may try.
What about how things work in FATE? Does anyone play Spirit of the Century as if their character was certain that they could change the outcomes of events? Do you think that it would be reasonable for a character in Spirit of the Century to conclude that their relationship problems with their girlfriend somehow powers their ability to make bullets not hit them in stressful situations? That's literally how it works, but I think I've never seen a game (other than Dresden Files) where the player characters were supposed to know that.Grek wrote:Nope, if the success rate for various tests changes over time, that makes it more difficult to pin down what's going on, but no less inevitable.
A sufficiently small amount of metagame currency that the character was unaware of would seem to be completely dissociated from the point of view of the character. The sample size would simply never be big enough or reliable enough for the character to understand.
Heck, even 4e D&D abilities are sufficiently weird and dissociated that I've never seen anyone be able to give a coherent set of limits as to what a character should know about how they work.
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You don't have to make it theoretically impossible to determine that you're a wizard, you just have to make it practically impossible. Sure, with enough tests you can eventually pin down what effect your magical thinking has on the world no matter how convoluted that effect is. However, how likely is it that a player character will be able to conduct that many tests?
None of those things are described, in character or out, as being magic. And they probably shouldn't be, since they're basically the player's Invoke Authorial Fiat button, rather than representing any sort of power of the character's, hidden or not. The character doesn't have to do anything for them to work and indeed may not even know that anything happened at all. If the character had to take some action to spend those points, even if it's just thinking really hard, "Man, I wish my gun had bullets", then they'd be right back in the empirical saddle, realizing in short order that their magical thinking has real effect on the number of bullets they have.FrankTrollman wrote:What about how things work in FATE? Does anyone play Spirit of the Century as if their character was certain that they could change the outcomes of events? Do you think that it would be reasonable for a character in Spirit of the Century to conclude that their relationship problems with their girlfriend somehow powers their ability to make bullets not hit them in stressful situations? That's literally how it works, but I think I've never seen a game (other than Dresden Files) where the player characters were supposed to know that.
A sufficiently small amount of metagame currency that the character was unaware of would seem to be completely dissociated from the point of view of the character. The sample size would simply never be big enough or reliable enough for the character to understand.
FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
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Username17
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I don't follow. If the gateway on the effect happening is both that the character has to want something and the player has to spend metagame currency on it, we're back to the character not knowing whether they actually have powers. Consider a 4e D&D Martial Power that does some extra damage: the character is trying to maximize the damage of every one of his strikes, but the player decides whether this particular attack is going to be a "Deep Cut" or not. At what point would the character logically conclude that they had a super power that made up to one of their attacks per day cut especially deeply? I would posit the answer to that question is "never".Grek wrote:If the character had to take some action to spend those points, even if it's just thinking really hard, "Man, I wish my gun had bullets", then they'd be right back in the empirical saddle, realizing in short order that their magical thinking has real effect on the number of bullets they have.
In any case, the goal isn't to make it so that the characters believe that they don't have powers, it's to make it so that the characters believe that something screwy is going on, but are never quite certain that they aren't crazy. I think the existence of FATE proves well enough that a metagame currency can be dissociated enough that players will play their characters as if they don't know whether and how their powers work. That's enough, I think.
I'd still like to do it in a Computer format, where there really were like a thousand little crazy things that changed how stuff worked in minor ways and just never document any of it. Like the Final Fantasy XI energy damage synergy effects that people argue about endlessly. But for a table top game, the existence of a metagame currency is probably enough and as much as can be accommodated.
But as for actual powers. Two related things to do are to open up something whose contents you don't know only to have it reveal something you need; and to know that something exists and guess its location out of the blue. Those two are potentially similar (and both could arguably allow you to win at Let's Make A Deal), but I think they are different enough as to be different Arcana. Or at least different powers within an Arcana. Also related of course is "Speak of the Devil" effects, in which a character mentions a person or event and then it appears "on its own".
Add "innumeromancy" where things of unknown quantity run out or don't as needed. And some kind of shield of ignorance effect wherein attacks that are too fast to see the trajectory of simply happen to miss.
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[/img]
The Innumeromancy symbol should probably be similar to this.
-Username17
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echoVanguard
- Knight-Baron
- Posts: 738
- Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:35 pm
Oh snap, this thread snuck up on me.
As far as "controlled tests", this is already handled in the previous rules by the intersection between two factors: the player running out of cards, and each use of a card being situation-dependent.
echo
I am not sure I agree with this at all. Are there situations in which a player might try to activate an ability that wasn't already using a roll? The rules I posted previously assume that any time a player wishes to influence an outcome, they're already making a roll to do so in a related capacity, and active powers can only influence the outcomes of rolls. If the MC rolls dice every time the player tries to use a power whether they actually have that power or not, the players don't gain any knowledge from the roll; it functions in a similar manner to Disbelief rolls against illusions in 2E. The player says they're attempting to disbelieve, so you roll, regardless of whether there's an illusion to disbelieve or not.FrankTrollman wrote:So I really don't think that it's possible or helpful to keep "doubt" in the mind of the players. At least, not without handling the operations in a computer. Even if cards are being drawn or dice are being rolled behind a screen, the player can still see that cards are being fucked with or hear dice being rolled. So they do know that the MC is responding to their ability activations.
I'm not sure if this is more actual fun than being unsure whether your powers work and why, but I'm willing to concede that it is probably easier.Anyway, while I've conceded defeat on that score, it does actually free some things up. At its most basic level it means that things can work more like Mage is supposed to work, where the player describes their effect and justifies how it can be construed as "coincidental".
As far as "controlled tests", this is already handled in the previous rules by the intersection between two factors: the player running out of cards, and each use of a card being situation-dependent.
This is true, but it changes the tone of things a little. A character who has the uncanny ability to find people's keys when they lose them can never *really* be sure if they have a supernatural power or not (particularly if it only works some of the time), but a character who can create explosions of color at will is pretty sure that, at least subjectively, they have a power of *some* kind, even if other people strenuously insist they saw no such flashes of color. The powers granted have to be at least superficially indistinguishable from random chance for the characters to be even slightly skeptical. That being said, as Lokathor points out, there is a lot more mileage in your characters being unable to convince Sleepers that magic is real than in your characters being skeptical that they really have powers. Several of the characters in Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere have reliable, reproducible powers of fantastic capability (one character even raises himself from the dead) and there is never any doubt amongst any of them that their powers are real and work, but they're also completely unable to convince a Sleeper that their powers exist, even if they were standing right there observing them intently the entire time.Grek wrote:But that is OK. If you accept that, and make it so that the character's self doubt comes from their inability to convince other people that magic exists, rather than their inability to convince themselves, there are no problems. The powers can do whatever you feel like, because the basic source of doubt from the characters is that their perception of events verifiably does not match up with the accounts given by normal people, and normal people will rightfully call them insane if they try to discuss those differences. And, of course, it makes the character's delusions about reality have absolutely no bearing on their magical powers.
The problem is that for any reasonable implementation, it would be totally indistinguishable from a random number generated from a clock seed. The fact that people swore up and down that Raster of Guk spawned more often in Everquest when you killed minotaurs in a specific order while wearing a hat and jumping up and down IRL was much more a function of people being stupid rather than there actually being any complicated mechanism behind it - even when there *was* a complicated mechanism behind it, like the Vaniki spawn sequence in Dragon Necropolis, it was indistinguishable from random chance.FrankTrollman wrote:I'd still like to do it in a Computer format, where there really were like a thousand little crazy things that changed how stuff worked in minor ways and just never document any of it. Like the Final Fantasy XI energy damage synergy effects that people argue about endlessly.
echo
Hmm... have them setup a lit of pre-rolls/draws before the game and reference that list/chart for the 'hidden' stuff?FrankTrollman wrote:In a computer game, I think you could do something pretty interesting with big hidden event tables and unreliable abilities so that the player would genuinely be uncertain that their invocations had any effect whatsoever. And that could be creepy as hell. But in Table Top it just doesn't work. The act of resolving a task inherently makes people aware that a task is being resolved.
Yeah, it does change the tone of things. All of the doubts your character might reasonably have are of the form: "Maybe the sleepers are right. Maybe I'm a paranoid schizophrenic and just hallucinating all of this shit." instead of "Maybe these "powers" I have that look suspiciously like statistical flukes are actually just statistical flukes." And I'm OK with that. I think it makes for a better game.echoVanguard wrote:there is never any doubt amongst any of them that their powers are real and work
But Frank wants to roll with innumeromancy and ignorance shield bullet dodging. And I don't blame him for that, as those honestly are cool concepts, and most of the GM advice written so far has honestly been very good. That is enough for me to overlook whatever quibbles I might have about empirical rigor in the self doubt mechanics.
FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
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There's also the additional consideration that there are already games that work that angle (such as Don't Rest Your Head), whereas there are no games that work the original angle of Doubt. But originality is no guarantee of quality, so maybe it's ok.Grek wrote:Yeah, it does change the tone of things. All of the doubts your character might reasonably have are of the form: "Maybe the sleepers are right. Maybe I'm a paranoid schizophrenic and just hallucinating all of this shit." instead of "Maybe these "powers" I have that look suspiciously like statistical flukes are actually just statistical flukes." And I'm OK with that. I think it makes for a better game.
But Frank wants to roll with innumeromancy and ignorance shield bullet dodging. And I don't blame him for that, as those honestly are cool concepts, and most of the GM advice written so far has honestly been very good. That is enough for me to overlook whatever quibbles I might have about empirical rigor in the self doubt mechanics.
echo
How about this, Frank... Keep the original doubt mechanics, but as a subsystem.
1: Low level means ignorance of abilities, high level means awareness.
Perhaps the powers are stronger if the power user doesn't actually believe they exist. Or maybe the powers are weaker, and become stronger if the user realizes they do exist (that might be a more "PCs will succeed" flavor than you were going for, I was getting a more dark "PCs lose the game" flavor from you).
Maybe most heroes start out doubting their powers, so the regular low level character doesn't know about this stuff. Realizing they have powers levels them up, or levelling up makes them realize they have powers. Or maybe leveling up does nothing, but the average level 1 character is unaware of their powers. A high level character may or may not be aware of their powers.
So the cumbersome "I declare an attack, does it do anything?" type stuff might only happen in the low levels, or maybe only in a single session and then the players figure out they have powers (or a specific set of powers is realized to exist).
Perhaps the classical distinction between low level and high level is whether or not the playing character knows they have powers.
2: Just some powers work on the doubt mechanic. The majority of powers do not.
Maybe each character has a power that the player is not aware of, or not. But in general most powers don't work that way, but some special powers do.
1: Low level means ignorance of abilities, high level means awareness.
Perhaps the powers are stronger if the power user doesn't actually believe they exist. Or maybe the powers are weaker, and become stronger if the user realizes they do exist (that might be a more "PCs will succeed" flavor than you were going for, I was getting a more dark "PCs lose the game" flavor from you).
Maybe most heroes start out doubting their powers, so the regular low level character doesn't know about this stuff. Realizing they have powers levels them up, or levelling up makes them realize they have powers. Or maybe leveling up does nothing, but the average level 1 character is unaware of their powers. A high level character may or may not be aware of their powers.
So the cumbersome "I declare an attack, does it do anything?" type stuff might only happen in the low levels, or maybe only in a single session and then the players figure out they have powers (or a specific set of powers is realized to exist).
Perhaps the classical distinction between low level and high level is whether or not the playing character knows they have powers.
2: Just some powers work on the doubt mechanic. The majority of powers do not.
Maybe each character has a power that the player is not aware of, or not. But in general most powers don't work that way, but some special powers do.
It seems like it'd be easiest to have both types of powers in the same game.
"Passive" powers are powers that characters are probably not aware of having in-character. They provide a bonus, or triggered effect, or whatever they do, but they simply automatically activate at the appropriate time (or attempt to, you could have a failure rate here to keep the 'doubt' going if you really like).
"Passive" powers are powers that characters are probably not aware of having in-character. They provide a bonus, or triggered effect, or whatever they do, but they simply automatically activate at the appropriate time (or attempt to, you could have a failure rate here to keep the 'doubt' going if you really like).
- Innumeromancy would be a passive power that keeps you from running out of bullets for a single fight (it works until you stop and think about how many bullets you must have just used) and then perhaps goes on a 1 hour cooldown or some such.
- Bullet Shield would be a passive power that always deflects bullets either completely away from the character or at least away from being lethal shots. It works as long as the character is more than 3m away from whoever is shooting at them.
- True Insight is a power that allows a character's selection of a card, button, switch, or other such thing automatically be the correct one, regardless of how many options there are. It activates 50% of the time (again with a possible cooldown).
I mean you could make a game with a totally inscrutable RNG and random powers that you might or might not be using at any given moment and all sorts of other layers of indirection to make it impossible to tell what's really going on at any given time... But how is that meaningfully different from just some sort of Magical Tea Party thing?
Is it just because the unpredictable thing that spits out your pass/fail results or your margin of success/failure results is a computer instead of a brain? Because a brain (the GM) is still interpreting your actions to make them inputs to the program, and then turning the program outputs into narrative results. You're clearly not actually removing the GM from the equation.
Is it just because the unpredictable thing that spits out your pass/fail results or your margin of success/failure results is a computer instead of a brain? Because a brain (the GM) is still interpreting your actions to make them inputs to the program, and then turning the program outputs into narrative results. You're clearly not actually removing the GM from the equation.
Could a system like this work? A combination of card drawing and a insanity track/tree?
Powers are drawn from a deck of cards. The player starts with a number of cards, face down. Those are his powers.
To use a power a player draws a card from his deck, face down and hands it to the GM, who then uses that power according to context. Afterward he gives the card back to the player, still face down, and adds another card to the players deck.
A GM can also hand out face down cards to the players when the situation warrants it.
The number of face down cards is equal to the characters insanity score. When the number of cards exceeds a certain threshold the character gains a psychiatric disease.When the number of cards exceeds a larger threshold the character is out of the game.
Observing powers in action might also add to the card pile.
The player can embrace his "madness" and choose a random card (from his pile) to flip over. He can then know that power, use it when he wants. However to embrace the madness he must draw more cards and add them to his pile.
To lose cards from his pile, the a character should deny the madness; for example going through a encounter without using or witnessing powers.
The key is that the player does not know what his characters threshold for madness or death are. So the balance is do we try to use powers to stay alive but risk going insane(er).
Obviously NPCs should have a lower threshold the PC's, so even observing effects of powers can drive NPCs permanently insane.
Powers are drawn from a deck of cards. The player starts with a number of cards, face down. Those are his powers.
To use a power a player draws a card from his deck, face down and hands it to the GM, who then uses that power according to context. Afterward he gives the card back to the player, still face down, and adds another card to the players deck.
A GM can also hand out face down cards to the players when the situation warrants it.
The number of face down cards is equal to the characters insanity score. When the number of cards exceeds a certain threshold the character gains a psychiatric disease.When the number of cards exceeds a larger threshold the character is out of the game.
Observing powers in action might also add to the card pile.
The player can embrace his "madness" and choose a random card (from his pile) to flip over. He can then know that power, use it when he wants. However to embrace the madness he must draw more cards and add them to his pile.
To lose cards from his pile, the a character should deny the madness; for example going through a encounter without using or witnessing powers.
The key is that the player does not know what his characters threshold for madness or death are. So the balance is do we try to use powers to stay alive but risk going insane(er).
Obviously NPCs should have a lower threshold the PC's, so even observing effects of powers can drive NPCs permanently insane.
Last edited by Ghremdal on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Username17
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| Possible Uses | Possible Arcana Names |
| Extend gas tank Shoot extra bullets Cause battery to expire | Innumeromancy |
| Cause bullets to miss Allow a car to break in time Walk across rotten floorboards | Solipsism Optimism Fool's Luck |
| A change in weather when you just mentioned it Getting called by someone you just mentioned Meeting someone you just mentioned | Naming Devilspeak Temptation |
| Pull a forgotten item out of your pocket Break into a car's trunk and find what you need Find a remaining copy of a "sold out" item | Panglossia Windfall |
| Walk by people without getting noticed Pick someone's pocket Hide in plain sight | Tergiversation Distraction Obscurity |
| Pick winning numbers Choose the correct apartment door | Hunch Intuition Inspiration |
The only name I'm really settled on is Innumeromancy. That has just the right amount of "magic sounding" and yet still conveys effortlessly what it does. I'm not sure whether Hyperperception and other aspects of madness should be actual Arcana, or whether that should just be a thing that happens to you.
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Thoughts on naming things:
-Solipsism sounds the best, but Optimism seems to fit better, assuming that I have correctly guessed that the function of this Arcana is supposed to be "invert Murphy's Law."
-All three of Naming, Devilspeak, and Temptation do not much sound like what it actually is, because yes "speak of the Devil" and "tempting fate" are very relevant phrases, but when I hear "Devilspeak" I think of some method of contacting Hell directly and when I hear "Temptation" I think of either playing on people's lower instincts or being a middleman in Faustian bargains. Naming also calls to mind knowing true names rather than any kind of thing that you can actually do in Doubt. Out of all of them, Temptation sounds the coolest.
-The word "panglossian" is something I had to look up, apparently has its roots in a character created by Voltaire (although assuming the "gloss" in "glossolalia" means something it's probably also derived from greek), and the dictionary definition is just generic optimism and good luck. The word is extremely obscure and also fails to describe what the Arcana does as distinct from half of the other Arcana. "Windfall" sounds terribly mundane but it does serve the function of describing what it actually does in such a way that people might actually understand it. "Panglossia" is fun to say and feels magical, though.
-Tergiversation has the magic-feeling quality of being a pointlessly obscure description of a concept we're all familiar with which White Wolf has used to great effect, but that thing does not roll off the tongue at all and that does a lot of harm to how magical it sounds and how easy it will be to use around the table. Obscurity sounds better to me, sounds slightly magical, and comes with the advantage of being something people already immediately understand.
-All three of Hunch, Intuition, and Inspiration are well-known words that describe what the power does in a specific enough way to be practical, but only Inspiration is often used to mean "magic" intentionally.
-Solipsism sounds the best, but Optimism seems to fit better, assuming that I have correctly guessed that the function of this Arcana is supposed to be "invert Murphy's Law."
-All three of Naming, Devilspeak, and Temptation do not much sound like what it actually is, because yes "speak of the Devil" and "tempting fate" are very relevant phrases, but when I hear "Devilspeak" I think of some method of contacting Hell directly and when I hear "Temptation" I think of either playing on people's lower instincts or being a middleman in Faustian bargains. Naming also calls to mind knowing true names rather than any kind of thing that you can actually do in Doubt. Out of all of them, Temptation sounds the coolest.
-The word "panglossian" is something I had to look up, apparently has its roots in a character created by Voltaire (although assuming the "gloss" in "glossolalia" means something it's probably also derived from greek), and the dictionary definition is just generic optimism and good luck. The word is extremely obscure and also fails to describe what the Arcana does as distinct from half of the other Arcana. "Windfall" sounds terribly mundane but it does serve the function of describing what it actually does in such a way that people might actually understand it. "Panglossia" is fun to say and feels magical, though.
-Tergiversation has the magic-feeling quality of being a pointlessly obscure description of a concept we're all familiar with which White Wolf has used to great effect, but that thing does not roll off the tongue at all and that does a lot of harm to how magical it sounds and how easy it will be to use around the table. Obscurity sounds better to me, sounds slightly magical, and comes with the advantage of being something people already immediately understand.
-All three of Hunch, Intuition, and Inspiration are well-known words that describe what the power does in a specific enough way to be practical, but only Inspiration is often used to mean "magic" intentionally.
Last edited by Chamomile on Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
For the first two I would go with Optimism, and Naming. Panglossia and Windfall are both ugly. I would go with something like Impermanence, Unknowing, or even Alteration. After that I would go with Obscurity and Inspiration.
DSMatticus wrote:Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. I am filled with an unfathomable hatred.
| Possible Uses | Possible Arcana Names |
| Extend gas tank Shoot extra bullets Cause battery to expire | Innumeromancy |
| Cause bullets to miss Allow a car to break in time Walk across rotten floorboards | Entropomancy |
| A change in weather when you just mentioned it Getting called by someone you just mentioned Meeting someone you just mentioned | Serendipity |
| Pull a forgotten item out of your pocket Break into a car's trunk and find what you need Find a remaining copy of a "sold out" item | Felicitomancy |
| Walk by people without getting noticed Pick someone's pocket Hide in plain sight | Innocuomancy |
| Pick winning numbers Choose the correct apartment door | Dead Reckoning |
Some suggestions =-)
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Username17
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/agreed.Lokathor wrote:Hyperperception should not be arcana because any given arcana should be possible to not have at all on a character, but if your Hyperperception is missing you're not even in the game.
But the question is whether you should have Arcana which enhance your hyperperception into full blown schizoprhenia. Like how in Vampire: the Masquerade, every Vampire can spend Blood for super strength, but there's still a Potence discipline that gives more strength.
Like, you could be hallucinating little energy lines between things and sometimes get important insight from where they go. Or you could get whispering voices that sometimes convey actual information.
I'm not sure how far I want to go into "actual paranoia and schizophrenia" territory.
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