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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hit points are abstraction.

It might be really easy to cut a cloak, but I imagine it's really hard to cut a magic cloak in a way that turns off it's magic. If you just cut the bottom of the cloak, why should that negate the effect? It's literally a magic size changing cloak, covering slightly less area probably isn't a big deal.

Also, be honest, have you ever swung a sword at cloth anything? You can move the cloth around, but actually cutting it is probably not in the cards. A Sunder attempt that does less than 40Hp of damage can just hit the cloak and smash it against your armor without severing it.
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Avoraciopoctules
Overlord


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik wrote:
Hit points are abstraction.

It might be really easy to cut a cloak, but I imagine it's really hard to cut a magic cloak in a way that turns off it's magic. If you just cut the bottom of the cloak, why should that negate the effect? It's literally a magic size changing cloak, covering slightly less area probably isn't a big deal.

Also, be honest, have you ever swung a sword at cloth anything? You can move the cloth around, but actually cutting it is probably not in the cards. A Sunder attempt that does less than 40Hp of damage can just hit the cloak and smash it against your armor without severing it.


Yeah, I think I'm going to just treat the cloak as magic armor for HP/Hardness per point of bonus. Otherwise, the Nightwalker fight coming up is probably going to be deeply unfun for the players. It will have to Vital Strike for average 64 damage to break their good stuff instead of wrecking it with normal claw attacks.
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Voss
Prince


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Any fight where the DM is simply out to break their good stuff is deeply unfun for players, and blatantly dickish.
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Judging__Eagle
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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Location: Lake Ontario is in my backyard; Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik wrote:
Hit points are abstraction.

It might be really easy to cut a cloak, but I imagine it's really hard to cut a magic cloak in a way that turns off it's magic. If you just cut the bottom of the cloak, why should that negate the effect? It's literally a magic size changing cloak, covering slightly less area probably isn't a big deal.

Also, be honest, have you ever swung a sword at cloth anything? You can move the cloth around, but actually cutting it is probably not in the cards. A Sunder attempt that does less than 40Hp of damage can just hit the cloak and smash it against your armor without severing it.


I couldn't agree more. Even with scissors meant to cut fabric, it's not like you can slash the blades against the cloth; and expect to cut a length off the bolt. Instead you have to align the edges; and cut along the thread, to get a clean cut. If you're looking at cutting anything thicker than one (maybe two) layer(s) of textiles, scissors won't be enough. The last time I was cutting a lot of fabric into 12" squares; I used a pair of compound snips (I think I was cutting about 10 layers at a time). It might not seem like much, but 10 layers of broadcloth being harder to cut through than most of the thinner grades of sheet metal was a bit surprising.

Magical items are also, often made of higher quality base materials (e.g. mwk weapons; armour). Finally, the crafting cost of items isn't necessarily equal to the costs of the spellcasting alone (based on PHB spellcasting costs); so that extra expense has to be going somewhere into the construction of the item.

Conversely; if one really is keen on breaking their treasure, it's not like it's difficult to have advantages when sundering items. At the very least, an adamantine item to overcome object hardness under 20. However, complaining that it's hard to break your potential treasure is an odd sentiment to understand.
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Count Arioch the 28th
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

djelai wrote:
OgreBattle wrote:
What're their worst errata decisions?

The FAQ on the mounted charge is pretty stupid as well => if your mount charges, the rider is charging too, so he can't spur his mount (wtf?!), use his bow, cast a spell, etc.


I miss why that's an issue. I am assuming that's because "how charging works in my head" and "how it actually works" probably are not the same, I was wondering if you could expand on that? Not challenging you, just curious.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:
djelai wrote:
OgreBattle wrote:
What're their worst errata decisions?

The FAQ on the mounted charge is pretty stupid as well => if your mount charges, the rider is charging too, so he can't spur his mount (wtf?!), use his bow, cast a spell, etc.


I miss why that's an issue. I am assuming that's because "how charging works in my head" and "how it actually works" probably are not the same, I was wondering if you could expand on that? Not challenging you, just curious.


At the most basic level it means you can't use your Ride skill to improve your mount's movement while charging while mounted. Which means that a heavy investment in Ride is kind of useless for character who intend to do cavalry charges. That's pretty dumb. The Ride Skill shouldn't be a nonbo with Mounted Charges, because that's deeply counterintuitive.

For more fringe cases it means that you can't shoot arrows or throw javelins from the back of a charging elephant, which of course makes the Selucids sad. But it also means that a lot of the fantasy shit you'd like to do like Goblins on the top of Flail Snails or whatever are off the table.

But the real bottom line is that there's no positive benefit to this ruling. There's no out-of-genre trick they are destroying and several in-genre events they are disallowing for no reason.

-Frank
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djelai
NPC


Joined: 26 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:
I miss why that's an issue.

What Frank said.
Also, go rage-lance-pounce and f*ck you mounted skirkmisher.
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hogarth
Prince


Joined: 27 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:

But the real bottom line is that there's no positive benefit to this ruling.

I thought they were trying to rule out the possibility of having the rider charging while the mount is moving at a slow meander.
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Count Arioch the 28th
King


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

hogarth wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:

But the real bottom line is that there's no positive benefit to this ruling.

I thought they were trying to rule out the possibility of having the rider charging while the mount is moving at a slow meander.


That's what was in my head, that it's not a "mounted charge" unless both rider and mount are charging, but if for some reason you just wanted your mount to charge the rider can shoot arrows, cast a spell, use the spur mount option (personal note: that looks like a mechanically terrible thing to do but it's reasonable that one should be able to do that during a charge), have the howdah full of goblins on the mastodon's back throw javelins and snakes and alchemist fire and feces at everything in the area while it barrels through everything, etc. But it seems that if your mount charges it locks the rider into the charge too. I'm guess that has something to do with the fact that the Pathfinder devs get their feelings hurt by numbers and logic.
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Covent
Master


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mounted combat FAQ is another bad knee jerk due to ragelancepounce
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Voss
Prince


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Covent wrote:
Mounted combat FAQ is another bad knee jerk due to ragelancepounce


It doesn't look like it does a thing to pouncing. At all. It fucks you in weird ways if you and your mount have a different reach*, but if you're riding some sort of great cat or dinosaur with pounce and/or you can pounce, this 'both are charging' rule does jack to stop it.


*there is a wacky thread on the paizo boards on the reach issue, and the sane response in the thread is just don't use things as written, because otherwise the charging rules make you stop whenever the creature with the longer reach hits their melee range, and the other can't attack. Or, because its the paizo boards, the alternate suggestion is, of course, don't use lances on horseback, because obviously it's only a problem because the player mismatched their own reach and the mounts reach.


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djelai
NPC


Joined: 26 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Voss wrote:
It doesn't look like it does a thing to pouncing.

The faq does a thing to pouncing: it allows it.

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Ice9
Duke


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The PF Devs seem to really hate it when anybody comes up with a combo that they didn't explicitly intend to be there.

This spell shatters balance into a million pieces? Oh, well, the GM can fix it. Or I guess we may get around to errata someday. These three feats let you take an extra 5' step, and that isn't a stated benefit for taking them? Code Red! To the errata-mobile!


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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ice9 wrote:
This spell shatters balance into a million pieces? Oh, well, the GM can fix it. Or I guess we may get around to errata someday. These three feats let you take an extra 5' step, and that isn't a stated benefit for taking them? Code Red! To the errata-mobile!


I think that's mostly an extension of the fact that the designers actually know the core 3e combat game pretty well and have very little concept of how the magic system works.

So if you get a bigger bonus to hit or an extra five foot step or an extra opportunity attack or something, that will jump right out at them as a thing. But if you do a thing with spell combos, they will stare at you blankly because they have honestly no idea what the spells are doing. You might as well be talking in Mandarin Chinese when you tell them what your spell combo does.

Which is ironic of course because the Fighter activities they have trained themselves to accept are actually way below what the Wizards are doing and also completely pathetic compared to what team monster is getting up to.

-Frank
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virgil
King


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Antariuk wrote:
On another note, I recently found the Disease and Poison rules from Pathfinder Unchained, and I kinda like them. Instead of messing with ability damage that is a pain to calculate at low levels until lesser restoration becomes available, at which point most poisons cease to have any real impact on gameplay, you have diseases and poison tracks (physical and mental for disease, and six ability tracks for poison). Healing is also harder to do than with the standard rules, so this looks pretty lethal at low levels and might even fvck with mid-level parties that are not sufficiently prepared. Any thoughts?
The HP damage on initial exposure and boost to neutralize poison are weird; at least so long as the victim doesn't reach the end state of a poison, where they become nearly impossible to restore. A friend of mine doesn't like the limited effect of multiple doses, which only increase the duration and not anything else.
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djelai
NPC


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
I think that's mostly an extension of the fact that the designers actually know the core 3e combat game pretty well

If they had mastered the core combat rules, they would never have published the current firearm combat rules.
The way they tried to balance the firearm rules with the core proves that they had no idea of what they were doing.

Firearms are just an example. Every rule they published after the CRB is made on the same model: exceptions to the CRB rules, exceptions inside the exceptions and a lot of micro-management.
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hogarth
Prince


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

virgil wrote:
A friend of mine doesn't like the limited effect of multiple doses, which only increase the duration and not anything else.

Quote:
If a victim is exposed to additional doses of the same poison, a failed save progresses the poison track by one step and increases the duration by 50%, but doesn't increase the DC.

Maybe I'm just reading it differently, but forcing another save vs. going down the track a step for each additional dose seems relatively severe to me.
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MisterDee
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm planning my next adventure, and it's been a while since the PCs competed in the arena. Conveniently, they've just reached level 7, so for most of the players a simple "here are your new combat abilities" adventure would be great.

Of course, this is Ptolus, not Ye Olde Regular Fantasy. So by "arena" I mean "fucking fantasy wrestling complete with costumes, kayfabe, luchadors and implausible plot twists". The PCs, among other things, are one of the face groups competing regularly in the arena (which is obviously enchanted so as not to kill the participants, of course)

My storyline is pretty simple. One of the party's (real) nemesis will show up, diss them in public, then challenge them for possession of their home base at the next Colosseumania. The arena promoters are going along with it because mysterious challenger, money, etc. Obviously, there's a dastardly plot involved that the PCs will have to solve.

But I need interesting opponents for the "backdrop" tournament to the investigation. The party is four level 7 characters, a bit light on arcane magic.

I already want to throw a metallic dragon at the PCs - any suggestions as to what would work best?

The PCs previously fought the Horde (a stupidly large pack of low-level halflings) and Big Bob (a frost giant) in the arena. Any ideas on how to use those guys for an encore even though they weren't really meaningful opponents the last time?

Any other too-dumb-to-try-in-another-context-but-still-awesome ideas?
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Prak
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You could throw a grapplemancer at them. I didn't get to play him much, but I did have a lot of fun with my equal-parts-Saitama-and-Professor-Farnsworth elven wizard with a +28 grapple check.
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In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Shiritai
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

MisterDee wrote:
The PCs previously fought the Horde (a stupidly large pack of low-level halflings) and Big Bob (a frost giant) in the arena. Any ideas on how to use those guys for an encore even though they weren't really meaningful opponents the last time?


Aren't you pretty much required to have Big Bob show up with a good number of the horde hanging from him in harnesses (probably armed with spears and crossbows)?
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Prak
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wait, what about bringing the horde back as Jerren (cannibalistic halfling tribe, BoVD), riding around in Big Bob's reanimated skeleton?
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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TOZ
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Realms Works requires verified PDF purchases to purchase any Paizo content.

I get why they are doing it, not sure how badly it will cripple the program.[/url]
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deaddmwalking
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't know how old your players are, but you could make a whole group of enemies based on 'muscle men' (an old toy . You could introduce some 'body stitching' to explain 8 arms.
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Count Arioch the 28th
King


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Shiritai wrote:
MisterDee wrote:
The PCs previously fought the Horde (a stupidly large pack of low-level halflings) and Big Bob (a frost giant) in the arena. Any ideas on how to use those guys for an encore even though they weren't really meaningful opponents the last time?


Aren't you pretty much required to have Big Bob show up with a good number of the horde hanging from him in harnesses (probably armed with spears and crossbows)?


Just don't make Big Bob charge.
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Mask_De_H
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

deaddmwalking wrote:
I don't know how old your players are, but you could make a whole group of enemies based on 'muscle men' (an old toy . You could introduce some 'body stitching' to explain 8 arms.


Or Kinnikuman/Ultimate Muscle characters, which the M.U.S.C.L.E. toys are.

E: Also, Girallion's Blessing gives you extra arms, as does polymorphing into/being certain monsters (Sahaugin Mutant)
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