Pathfinder Is Still Bad

GâtFromKI · Post by **GâtFromKI** » Wed May 06, 2015 9:00 am

They don't, but many MC decide they have anyway for no reason.

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Wed May 06, 2015 10:23 am

Mind affecting spells - there are many in the illusion school, e.g color spray - don't normally affect undead. If your GM's got certain beliefs then figments like silent image can be essentially worthless, as there's a line about proof that they're not real requiring no save, and 'proof' is something that could mean any inconsistency or oddity.

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Wed May 06, 2015 11:20 am

tussock wrote: What's the cost to fixing up your caster level in Pathfinder with dipping anyway? A feat? There's got to better things to do with a whole level, huge numbers of prestige classes only take away 1.

Joining a guild and earning brownie points will fix your progression. Inner sea Magic, I believe.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed May 06, 2015 11:28 am

Arcanists are easier to pick prepared spells with basically as soon as you get a metamagic. The benefits of the spontaneous metamagic option.

... are not that game-changing. It's a good benefit, don't get me wrong, but unless you were specifically doing a metamagic whoring trick it comes on too late (character level 9, minimum) to have a significantly larger marginal utility than a wizard who just packs extra scrolls and uses one of the many ways to hotswap spells.

Also I think you may be exaggerating how much spell level matters compared to save DC.

If save DC matters that much to you, then go Exploiter wizard. Your save DCs are even higher thanks to early spell access and you can still grab Potent Magic.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Wed May 06, 2015 7:38 pm

Undead are immune to mind-effecting spells, which includes a number of illusions.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu May 07, 2015 12:10 am

Is there any way to take and use feats that require you to have an evil alignment without currently being evil? I really like some of the evil options but for obvious reasons I don't actually want to roll up to a game with an evil character.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Thu May 07, 2015 12:46 am

Gaining the evil subtype would probably do it.

Roog · Post by **Roog** » Thu May 07, 2015 5:59 am

Beyond Morality (both of them) come close but don't apply to feats.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-cl ... orality-su
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-h ... rality-Ex- (this one looks like it may have been intended to apply to anything)

Archmage Joda · Post by **Archmage Joda** » Sat May 09, 2015 12:15 am

So, I've seen the shaman mentioned on here a few times as a decent class. Where exactly on the totem pole does it tend to fit? Worse than Cleric and Wizard, but better than Oracle and Sorcerer? Worse than most other full casters? Better than many other full casters?

Night Goat · Post by **Night Goat** » Sat May 09, 2015 12:31 am

I've been playing Shaman for a while, and once you get past the very early levels it may be the best class in the game. The spell list isn't that great, but you get hexes so you'll be able to do something useful every turn. Also, there's an alternate favored class bonus for humans and half-humans that allows you to add cleric spells to your list. Also also, the Arcane Enlightenment hex lets you cherry-pick wizard spells - get this with your wandering hex or the Spirit Talker feat, and you'll be able to choose these spells every day.

Dean · Post by **Dean** » Sat May 09, 2015 1:41 am

I've never even played Shaman but the Scarred Witch Doctor archetype is very much on my radar. If I had to whip up a character in a couple hours right now odds are pretty good that would be it.

Insomniac · Post by **Insomniac** » Sat May 09, 2015 3:34 am

You go the Sacred Tattoos into that trait that increases luck bonus. You have a +2 luck bonus to your saves and then you are a full caster with a race that starts +2 to your casting stat and the casting stat is Constitution. Its the down and dirty way to Winning Pathfinder. Sure, you can do stronger stuff, but its pretty damn hard to argue with that.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:25 am

Night goat's above trick with the Spirit Talker feat probably works for Witches as well. Their DC will be crap, but it's still great for saveless spells.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Thu May 14, 2015 12:23 pm

I never realised how expensive large rocks are in pathfinder.

[url=http://www.archivesofnethys.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Pain%20Taster wrote:pain taster prestige class[/url]] The first time a pain taster performs a particular torture routine, she must spend 1 hour inflicting self-harm using materials that cost 2,000 gp.
[. . . ]
The initial torture session for this routine involves breaking each rib by lying on the ground, and then repeatedly dropping a large rock directly on the ribcage.

Mark Moreland Developer wrote:The ritual involved in the disciple of pain class ability does not deal hit point damage. To do so would make it one of the few class abilities that came with a built-in burden to characters who take levels in the class. The rituals are meant to be primarily flavorful means by which a character gains the benefit, similar to deific obediences from Inner Sea Gods or to a wizard preparing spells for the day. If a GM wishes to play out this hour-long ritual, she is welcome to do so, but we didn’t want to hard-code a penalty or hit point tax into the rules for all players. The reference to hit point damage in the pain mastery description is a legacy from changes made to the class last-minute that slipped through the cracks (see below).

Also I like the fact that breaking all your ribs does not affect you in any way.

momothefiddler · Post by **momothefiddler** » Thu May 14, 2015 1:02 pm

Yikes. I have a player who's trying to set up a quarry... and I was just gonna let him! Thanks for pointing out how broken that is.

Lurky Lurkpants · Post by **Lurky Lurkpants** » Thu May 14, 2015 8:45 pm

The ritual involved in the disciple of pain class ability does not deal hit point damage. To do so would make it one of the few class abilities that came with a built-in burden to characters who take levels in the class.

Meanwhile the primary mechanic of the Kineticist (their version of the Warlock) is going to boosting or fueling their abilities by taking special nonlethal damage that can't be healed except by rest.

Aryxbez · Post by **Aryxbez** » Fri May 15, 2015 10:51 am

I don't play Pathfinder(cue thread title), but since I know someone who does, I kinda want a valid low level character on the off-shoot I join a session someday. Golarion-wise, I really like the Red Mantis Assassins, their Faction, their God, even their super-secret HQ. I like the idea behind their class, is they're sneaky closet trolls that transform into stuff and rip people apart, ideally covert and assassin like. Obviously the actual Prc behind it is trash, so I was wondering what class(s) combinations and such would be best to make that happen?

I would assume depressingly low level, like 3-5th, with little hopes of going all that far into mid levels (So a story idea I had where god gives me a message to secretly Assassinate the entire organization is but a fantasy within a fantasy). Also guessing Druid might also be fitting this bill, and I've no issue going caster for PF, so long as I know all the things I stuff I need to do to Eat Face. I think the Kingmaker thread mentioned taking the Feather Domain, and possibly Nature Fang if meleeing people instead of Wildshaping. Though I totally want to Cho'goth people, but I'll take whatever optimization requires.

Any thoughts on this, be it prior links or otherwise?

Ghremdal · Post by **Ghremdal** » Fri May 15, 2015 11:24 am

How about a barbarian? I know they have some rage powers where they grow claws when they rage. Also I think one where you can get a bite attack.

Incidentally that rage power path gives you extra NA, and pounce on higher levels so its not as bad as rage powers go. I don't know if it was updated with Unchained classes.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Fri May 15, 2015 11:41 am

What about a vivisectionist alchemist?
You use mutagens (potion like stuff) to turn into a monster with claws and bite and you get sneak attack.
Can combine it with the beastmorph archetype too, for grabbing stuff off the polymorph list.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Fri May 15, 2015 6:44 pm

I recommend you get the transformation from your race. Be a Skinwalker. The alternate heritages mean the race can fit most any class. Some of them have great abilities too. The Nightskulk get Distraction, a con-based save vs. nauseate whenever it damages an opponent. Bloodmarked have two different feats that give them flight. Fanglords can see through magical darkness.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sat May 16, 2015 12:57 am

Ghremdal wrote:How about a barbarian? I know they have some rage powers where they grow claws when they rage. Also I think one where you can get a bite attack.

The Abyssal bloodline Bloodrager should work pretty well. When you rage, you grow claws and then at level 4 you grow in size, too.

Shiritai · Post by **Shiritai** » Sat May 16, 2015 3:22 am

Also check out the Eldritch Scion archetype for Magus. You downgrade from wizard prep to sorcerer prep, but you get a bloodrager bloodline, have access to most of the polymorph spells, and can easily pick up Eldritch Heritage for additional monstrous changes.

Archmage Joda · Post by **Archmage Joda** » Sat May 16, 2015 6:46 am

And also have to spend from your limited arcane point pool to use the class' core spell combat ability until level 8. That's a big reason why I think Eldritch Scion archetype is a big downgrade for Magus.

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Sat May 16, 2015 6:57 am

Archmage Joda wrote:And also have to spend from your limited arcane point pool to use the class' core spell combat ability until level 8. That's a big reason why I think Eldritch Scion archetype is a big downgrade for Magus.

The Eldritch Scion is a hate crime against Magi. And now that they've put a steaming turd in that design space, nothing good will ever be put there.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Sat May 16, 2015 7:10 am

rasmuswagner wrote:
Archmage Joda wrote:And also have to spend from your limited arcane point pool to use the class' core spell combat ability until level 8. That's a big reason why I think Eldritch Scion archetype is a big downgrade for Magus.
The Eldritch Scion is a hate crime against Magi. And now that they've put a steaming turd in that design space, nothing good will ever be put there.

Just like how after they made the Paladin and Cleric they never made another divine warrior class aga— Oh wait, they totally made two more classes that try to split the difference into ever tinier segments.

It's like they're trying to achieve the granularity of open multiclassing with single-class builds.