The Quest for Character

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:54 pm

He plays with them because he doesn't have anyone else to play with. Until recently he has been the dm for most games that he has played in. He welcomes a chance to be a player.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:34 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
virgil wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:Wait, what? How did the armies of the Maharajah work then?
Not a clue, because I have essentially zero knowledge about what you're referring to, and my Google-fu is apparently weak tonight (which is a first).
Many armies have used bucklers as part of their standard equipment. Off the top of my head, there were many such armies in India and Central Asia.

But yes, there have historically been people who fought with a weapon in the hand that the buckler was on:

And yes, real people manage to really do that in modern days.
-Username17

Frank, isn't that a throwing spear that's being held, rather than a weapon to be wielded along with the sword in melee?

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:34 am

PF's more explicit that secret page will allow for 'free' spellbooks, though it must be used on extant spell text and it can only recreate spells known by the caster of equal or lower spell level to the original text; and a spell is only known if a wizard writes it out on their spellbook.

However, the DM's decided that the 'intent' is for hiding, so any recreated spell text via secret page is inherently false and can be noticed as such with a Spellcraft check that's easier than deciphering a spell in the first place.

We have since lost the gnome mobility fighter due to RL, gained an oracle, an inquisitor; making there be six of us now.

In other news, I don't know how our 5th level party (had a guest PC, some crappy fighter I think) managed to kill that dragon disciple with its handful of 3rd level soldier mind-slaves. It opened with a breath weapon from invisibility (bringing me from full to -2, only having 31hp) and threw around dominate person and went through several invisibility spells. It was nearly two minutes in-game, when three of us were mind-slaves, I was under blindness/deafness, when the bard finally threw a lucky alchemist's fire that killed the bugger.

EDIT: Upon reaching 5th level, I gained access to two feats, which I'm not totally sold on knowing what to get. One's going to be Craft Arms and Armor, because the party's full of melee types and I charge 60% market price to craft stuff for them; which gives me 10% profit off anything they want. But that's one feat. One player expressed an interest in making faux-inevitables, which I could take the Craft Construct feat and jump in on that money action right away. The other option is to let him take Leadership in a level or two and just take the Bouncing Spell metamagic feat now.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:12 pm

virgil wrote: In other news, I don't know how our 5th level party (had a guest PC, some crappy fighter I think) managed to kill that dragon disciple with its handful of 3rd level soldier mind-slaves. It opened with a breath weapon from invisibility (bringing me from full to -2, only having 31hp) and threw around dominate person and went through several invisibility spells. It was nearly two minutes in-game, when three of us were mind-slaves, I was under blindness/deafness, when the bard finally threw a lucky alchemist's fire that killed the bugger.

Given how much hand waving dickery your DM is doing, I strongly suspect that your DM simply fudged it. Not having realized that a 9th level wizard with a bunch of 3rd level warriors was perhaps somewhat unfair to drop on a 4th level party, he simply had him fall over when an attack hit. For fuck's sake, alchemist fire only does a d6 of fire damage, how is that supposed to stop a 9th level Dragon Wizard?

-Username17

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:02 pm

Juton wrote:
virgil wrote:The prior DM hated bucklers because it allowed wizards to wield shields, which he didn't approve of (didn't fit his mental image). This DM, however, is actually banning bucklers on the argument of realism; as no historical account of bucklers (or any shield, if I recall) ever showed them working like they do in D&D.
How does he think shields should work in D&D? I remember a rather vindictive DM who deprived shield AC to characters who where flat footed. Shields in D&D suck, I've tried for a long time to find some combo that makes for an awesome character, but nerfing shields is like nerfing the Monk, it's just a sign of a DM being an asshole.

Assholes who fuck with sheilds deserve to be beaten until the gore pours onto the pavement.

In RL sheilds are OP that's why everyone fucking used them.

Arrows, axes, and alternate attacks are all antagonisms an aegis arrests.

Anyone fucking with that is basically turning their backs on over six thousand years of human history.

While we no long use man-portable shields of any size in wars, we still use the concept of "shields" in so many of our modern 20th and now 21st iron war chariots that it's mentally deficient to argue otherwise.

A buckler is a phenomenal tool, and can seriously stop an arming sword in modern sword and buckler sparring practice. Granted the attacks are choreographed, or even simply rely on pulled attacks (people still do live steel fighting for fun and exercise.

In games shields are.... treated as either the fly-paper for enemy "special" attacks, where attacks are seriously caught by shields intentionallou. Real life, the SCA, medival re-enactors/recreators, and seriously one game (a single chapter Larp) actually gives shield the props that they deserve.

Most Vidja games simply treat sheilds as additional "amour" that takes up a weapon slot. D+D does this, but the values in the Core are so pathetic in my opinion; a "tower shield" of 36"+ in circular surface area is... not... 10% better than a medium 24" shield.

Conversely, or rather, perversely, they are treated as massive fucking bulls-eyes for "special" attacks (anything from Blood Magic/Alchemy to "Magic" always fucks with shields in everything from D&D, and every RPG and LARP that tries to emulate "their" creator's 2E homebrew games). Making shields into... "liabilites"

The D&D tower sheild occupies a special place, since it's good at what sheilds are usually allowed to be good at; however it's not honestly that good at representing what a sheet of material 30" wide and 40"~ inches tall provides in terms of defense.

Seriously, giving out a base +6 AC for -2 to hit is... a plausible "Good Starting point". I've used a solid metal heater shield and a 4-5 lb boffer for a half hour (not my real choice, but my own door wasn't there, and the sword was some magic dealie that upped my damage 25% if I was singing, and let me drop x4 damage if I attacked the target from behind; beat my own 'magic' alchemy-buffed sword).

Honestly, if you're.... well fed, you can seriously use both with very minimal penalty; that or my RL to-hit is large enough to not actually notice a -2 or 10% lower chance to hit. Being, you know, an actual fighter, with a strength high enough to bench 200 lb all day long is.... not going to notice a 20 lb weight held in their arm; or a 5lb hurting-steel in their swinging hand.

Tower sheilds in 3.X should seriously be:

Penalty of -2 to Hit; Each point of Actual BaB reduces the penalty by 1. Grants 4 AC +1 per 2 BaB; up to it's base value. So, at +8 BaB, your Tower shield is like an extra suit of full plate, and honestly... you don't give a damn. Because the CR 6 Hill Giants can hit an AC of 30; and the CR 8 War Trolls can hit AC in the high 30's; and 20th level "tank" characters in 3.5 were considered 'okay' by WoTC designer standards if they have... an AC of 40-ish, and no miss chance they give attackers. @_@

Molochio · Post by **Molochio** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:40 pm

I do so love these ventures into the absurd.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:14 pm

Well, mirror image is ignored while I'm grappled, and reduced in effectiveness (1 in 2 rather than 1 in 6 for a round) when I reach out to touch someone's hand in order to get a CLW.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:26 pm

is that a PF ruling or the group's ruling?

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:56 pm

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:58 am

Well, mirror image is ignored while I'm grappled, and reduced in effectiveness (1 in 2 rather than 1 in 6 for a round) when I reach out to touch someone's hand in order to get a CLW.
Oh *groan*... no more. please. Find a freaking play by post somewhere instead.