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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Jesus christ you must live very sheltered lives if you think Joe fucking Kennedy is the only person on deck.
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MGuy
Prince


Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Glass houses and stones and all that.
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erik
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik wrote:
Jesus christ you must live very sheltered lives if you think Joe fucking Kennedy is the only person on deck.


And I think we can do better than a white male from a political dynasty. I wasnít that impressed with his response. Throughout the whole thing I was thinking he is so young and that I didnít feel inspired at all.
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FrankTrollman
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The common idea of the State of the Union response is that it's the Kobayashi Maru of politics. You give it, and then people make fun of you. But that's only true because for the last eight years it was Republicans giving responses to Obama, which meant that they were lying and trying to sell extremely unpopular policies. And so you ended up with mockery.

Democratic positions are actually popular, which means that articulating a state of the union response to fucking Trump is actually quite easy. Just don't shit on yourself and it's all good.

Anyway, our frontrunner for 2020 is probably Kirsten Gillibrand, followed by Cory Booker and Kamala Harris. Some people talk about Warren, Sanders, or Biden for 2020, but those people will all be too old by then. For fuck's sakes, the end of the next presidential term is like 7 fucking years from now, we are not going to run Elizabeth Warren who would be 75 and we certainly aren't going to be running Bernie Sanders, who would be 83.

In this age of brutal ethnic cleansing and horrific gender oppression by the Republicans, the Democratic candidate is not going to be a white man. It just isn't. Also we aren't going to run Tulsi Gabbard because even though she's young and hot, she is too easy for foreign dictators to buy off into having weird positions that are deeply out of sink with Democratic party norms.

-Frank
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Koumei
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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Location: South Ausfailia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
she is too easy for foreign dictators to buy off into having weird positions that are deeply out of sink with Democratic party norms.


Is this a youth/inexperience thing, or something that's kind of already on the record, or something else?
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LR
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
Anyway, our frontrunner for 2020 is probably Kirsten Gillibrand, followed by Cory Booker and Kamala Harris.


What do you think about the chances of Actual US Military Hero, Tammy Duckworth? It's a question if she'll actually run, but it seems like she'd be a strong candidate if she does, judging by how she's been carrying herself in the Senate. At the very least, if the Republicans decide to run any more chickenhawks, she could lodge her nonproverbial prosthetic foot right in their proverbial ass.
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Grek
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Koumei wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:
she is too easy for foreign dictators to buy off into having weird positions that are deeply out of sink with Democratic party norms.


Is this a youth/inexperience thing, or something that's kind of already on the record, or something else?

She has toured Syria with representatives of the Syrian Social Nationalist Party and accepts political donations from them. You know, the ones with the swastika logo? Who want a Syria without any jews in it? Those National Socialists Social Nationalists.
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But more importantly if you elevate jerkishness into a principle, if you try to undermine the rules that keep niceness, community, and civilization going, the defenses against social cancer Ė then your movement will fracture, it will be hugely embarrassing, the atmosphere will become toxic, unpopular people will be thrown to the mob, everyone but the thickest-skinned will bow out, and the people you need to convince will view you with a mixture of terror and loathing.


Last edited by Grek on Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Koumei
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay I can see that being somewhat of a problem. It's just the Republicans who are supposed to be friends with Nazis.
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MGuy
Prince


Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

LR wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:
Anyway, our frontrunner for 2020 is probably Kirsten Gillibrand, followed by Cory Booker and Kamala Harris.


What do you think about the chances of Actual US Military Hero, Tammy Duckworth? It's a question if she'll actually run, but it seems like she'd be a strong candidate if she does, judging by how she's been carrying herself in the Senate. At the very least, if the Republicans decide to run any more chickenhawks, she could lodge her nonproverbial prosthetic foot right in their proverbial ass.
I doubt it would matter much. The Reps do not have standards anymore (if they ever actually did) and their 'support' of military figures apparently can be disregarded. Remember president Cheeto called McCain's military history out and no number of fingers pointing at how wrong this was effected him in the least. I always thought the FBI was usually a fan favorite for conservatives, or at least had a modicum of their trust and respect and that doesn't seem to be the case. I also don't think that kind of military history touting helps with Dems or independents.

Of course, I really do not think it matters much 'who' the Dems pick to run against Trump as long as they can convince their own voters that the person they pick isn't (almost) as bad as Trump and with how Trump has behaved I doubt that will be a high wall to leap over. On another note, the people Frank identified as too old are about all the names regular people actually know and recognize. Those people, unfortunate with Bernie, are probably too old and I would like someone younger. As far as I can tell, right now, only people who are speculating on the future race actually are familiar with any of the people who 'might' run while your common person only knows certain names. Maj wasn't the only one speculating suddenly about Kennedy and I'd wager most people do not know who Kirsten even is. The only reason I recognize the name is because I watch and listen to people who talk about who should run. There seems to be a disconnect between people like kaelik who are paying attention and people who just are not that into it (IE Most people).

In the last election Hillary had a major advantage in name recognition and it took a while for Bernie to really make a name for himself among people who didn't already know who he was. Biden is the Obama buddy, Bernie the free college guy, now Kennedy that guy who delivered that speech for the Dems. These are the names people see on top of the slew of other Dems that happen to be in one news cycle or another which is why you get people who want Biden or Bernie to run despite how impractical that would be at this point. I don't see much grassroots support for any particular establishment Dem (not counting personal fans/backers of certain Dems of course) but maybe that's part of a strategy and helps keep the right from starting to build an early narrative for any would be establishment backed Dem running in 2020. Whoever it ends up being I'm fairly confident that they might be able to uproot Trump out of office. Trump is only 1 year into his presidency and hasn't done anything for his base but crack down on brown people and give lots of money to other rich people. In 3 more years I'm sure more of them will notice they aren't getting anything that really 'helps' them out of his presidency. Or maybe I'm being too optimistic. I know that history says that it's rare for America to change up presidents without them going the full two terms but Trump has sunk every other tradition/norm so why not losing the white house in one or less terms?
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Thaluikhain
Duke


Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 1258

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

MGuy wrote:
Trump is only 1 year into his presidency and hasn't done anything for his base but crack down on brown people and give lots of money to other rich people. In 3 more years I'm sure more of them will notice they aren't getting anything that really 'helps' them out of his presidency. Or maybe I'm being too optimistic.


Eh, dunno. People are still refusing to see what Trump is. It is obvious now, it was obvious before the election, and people voted for him. Though, I'm seeing a lot of "I don't support Trump" from people who just happen to agree every time he opens his mouth.

But yeah, if the Dems find someone and back them probably, they still should win, the die-hard Trumpists are somewhat less numerous than the "Jesus Christ, no!" crowd.
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RobbyPants
Prince


Joined: 06 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Nunes is pushing a different memo than the one that was approved. When lies packaged in super secret memos aren't enough, use altered lies packaged in super secret memos.
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angelfromanotherpin
Overlord


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 7616

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wow, that's dumb. Even if they didn't get caught beforehand, any Democrat on the committee could tell it was edited and leak the actually authorized version to highlight the changes made. I don't see any way that move could actually work out for team 45.
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Dogbert
Knight-Baron


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Maj wrote:
Unless someone else shows up, I think it's gonna be another Kennedy.


Considering we're back in 1950, getting a new Kennedy would be mighty auspicious.

Here's to no more magic bullets, or vendettas from the mob.
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Stahlseele
King


Joined: 14 Apr 2010
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Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

*sigh*
JFK was one of the most beloved Presidents in the history of history . .
And he was shot dead in the head out in the open . .

Trump is one of the most hated Presidents in the history of history . .
and he will probably die of old age <.<
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RobbyPants
Prince


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, the memo is out, and it's about as dumb as we all thought.

The FBI gave a rare statement on Wednesday warning that the memo is missing key information that makes the veracity questionable.

Even listening to the Republican's complains, they're super weaksauce. The memo alleges bias against Trump. It admits there was a FISA warrant signed by a judge to monitor Carter Page due to Russian ties. But because the judge didn't know about the bias, or something, that somehow makes the FISA warrant to monitor someone who'd been approached by the Russians... bad? I think they're trying to build this whole "fruit of the poisonous tree" thing by pinning everything on the Steele dossier... while this FISA warrant is still legit. I can't see anything that somehow makes this judge's decision tainted, but it looks like that's where they're going with it.

All that, and at the end, they admit that George Papadopoulos was actually the start of this, not the Steele dossier. WTF?

The Democrats, of course, fired back about the absurdity of this.

Trump, even more predictably, latched onto this as some sort of exoneration, saying this whole thing's been a disgrace.

I guess we sit back and see how stupid your average voter is, and whether or not Trump uses this to make a move against Mueller before things get worse in the actual real investigation.


Edit: Related: 538's take

The short version is this mostly falls on partisan lines, but where it doesn't, Trump comes out worse. If the goal of the memo was to make the perception of Mueller investigation more partisan, it likely has. He's further insulated from impeachment by a GOP-controlled House, but... I thought we already knew that.


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MGuy
Prince


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It isn't about what we knew. This is the Republican game. They do not need to make sense or tell the truth. They, unlike the Dems have figured out how to get a message out there with major advantages of not needing to be truthful and having many of the media outlets both big and small across the nation in their pocket. The memo itself doesn't matter. They have trained their audience to respond to certain trigger words. So it's all "blah blah blah FBI blah blah blah anti trump blah blah blah wrong bad blah blah dossier" to your basic trump supporter and any fence sitter that is leaning right. I think it's actually pretty genius of them. I'm legitimately impressed that they've morphed a lot of being a conservative or a Republican into being in support of or at worst uncritical of Trump.
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maglag
Duke


Joined: 02 Apr 2015
Posts: 1171

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

MGuy wrote:
It isn't about what we knew. This is the Republican game. They do not need to make sense or tell the truth. They, unlike the Dems have figured out how to get a message out there with major advantages of not needing to be truthful and having many of the media outlets both big and small across the nation in their pocket at least 17 years ago. The memo itself doesn't matter. They have trained their audience to respond to certain trigger words. So it's all "blah blah blah FBI blah blah blah anti Bush Second of his Name blah blah blah wrong bad blah blah dossier" to your basic Bush second of his name supporter and any fence sitter that is leaning right. I think it's actually pretty genius of them. I'm legitimately impressed that they've morphed a lot of being a conservative or a Republican into being in support of or at worst uncritical of Bush Second of his Name.


Really politicians telling lies is nothing new. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book if anything else.

It's not really what you tell, but how you tell it. The general public loves a disgusting good show. Bush the second said he knew the wey to the bad weapons of mass destruction and most of the USA obeyed.

Remember too that Bush didn't need such un-democratic things as winning the popular vote either, just making sure he was friends with the top powerful people.
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The much much much better comparison is Reagan. If there's a difference between Trump and Reagan, I'm not sure what it is.

Celebrity with no skills who's dumb as a box of rocks who's staff manages him and probably makes all the policy decisions, who the establishment claimed was obviously stupid and incompetent and not representative of the republican party until he was elected president, then supported 100% even while he constantly blurted out obviously stupid things that demonstrated his idiocy and super fucking racist shit that demonstrated his racism, and then was hailed as the greatest president of all time by the republicans forever after.
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angelfromanotherpin
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, despite the Nunes memo being comically inept on every level, it turns out that the state media's plan is to just go full Orwell and pretend it says a bunch of things it doesn't actually say at all. I wish I was surprised.


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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i actually got that one.
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MGuy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So I was holding my breath on the DACA delay but it is sounding now like Dems have cut a deal and are probably going to go along with it unless the Reps shoot themselves in the foot. The budget deal is being touted as good though most of the good parts for the Dems seem like things the Reps would've had to look into anyway (disaster relief, the opioid crisis, etc) with increased spending on things they don't care about (like child healthcare no seriously this is a thing that has to be argued for). So that's a thing but I don't see what they have then to use as leverage for DACA. So now giving in last time is looking like a mistake.
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

MGuy wrote:
So I was holding my breath on the DACA delay but it is sounding now like Dems have cut a deal and are probably going to go along with it unless the Reps shoot themselves in the foot. The budget deal is being touted as good though most of the good parts for the Dems seem like things the Reps would've had to look into anyway (disaster relief, the opioid crisis, etc) with increased spending on things they don't care about (like child healthcare no seriously this is a thing that has to be argued for). So that's a thing but I don't see what they have then to use as leverage for DACA. So now giving in last time is looking like a mistake.


Why do idiots who want to dunk on democrats have to be so fucking stupid?

1) It wasn't "giving in" last time.

2) If they "evil bad give in" this time, whether for 2 weeks or for a year, and then still get DACA then man, it sure wasn't dumb.

3) If they "give in" this time that doesn't retroactively make last time bad. That makes no fucking sense, why are people so dumb?

I wish I lived in a world where people could articulate actual correct non stupid complaints about democrats, but apparently that world will never come.
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The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:
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That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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MGuy
Prince


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I wish people who rushed to call people idiots would stop and do some introspection before they did so.

1) If you don't like my terminology that's fine but just like last time you decided to rush to judgment with a counter argument lacking in substance it doesn't change my overall point. Compromise, delay, whatever use the euphemism that makes you most comfortable.

2) "If" and "then" is not the strong counter you think it is because as I see it they are giving up the leverage they had to get DACA in time.

3) I went over why failing would be bad before but to remind people who don't remember: the delay was cast as the Dems giving up on DACA. I didn't see it that way but as I said before, if it is not then done it confirms all the bad press that Dems got for honestly just delaying the process. So while it may not have necessarily been a dumb move in reality to take the compromise and get the delay it hurts the Dems if they then fail to have gotten the thing afterward.

I really don't know how it could be that people are so tone deaf when they talk about politics especially when we should have learned that narratives mean more than truth. All it takes is for Left leaning people to decide that the Dems don't actually stand for anything to get them to stay home or vote 3rd party. Dems can barely carry a narrative as it is.
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The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
I've always thought it best to never hit a lady, but be sure to beat a bitch. -TOZ
MGuy wrote:
Finally a thread about fighters!


Last edited by MGuy on Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:32 am; edited 2 times in total
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Whipstitch
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

There's also a huge difference between "looking into things" and addressing them in ways that are actually helpful. Conservatives tend to default to cries of "Moar Prisons!" whenever a drug crisis rolls around and given the existence of demonstrably insane people within the sitting Republicans I have to say that I'm not too put out by the Dems perking up a bit when funding for research and treatment is on the table. I mean, fuck, if it were up to Trump we'd just scrap the NIH and spend the money on jackboots and confetti.
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MGuy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Putting more money up for it means nothing if the department that's supposed to handle it does nothing with that money.
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The first rule of Fatclub. Don't Talk about Fatclub..
I've always thought it best to never hit a lady, but be sure to beat a bitch. -TOZ
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