Outsiders in 3.5 - good or bad?

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Xur
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Outsiders in 3.5 - good or bad?

Post by Xur »

I have a question that is: what good (or bad) comes from being an outsider in D&D 3.5? I had a player asking to be an outsider character, like for example an Aasimar, in a future game and it got me thinking. I never really used or had to deal much with rules for outsiders so far. Are there any spells or effects that particularly effect/target outsiders?*

Reading the SRD, another question arises: If taken as character class, are Aasimars/Tieflings Outsider (Native) in type? The monster entry says so, but the character race entry does not. And this whole Outsider (Native) stuff is weird... I'd say you either belong to this plane or not.

* I know they are harder to be brought back to life, but thats not so important to me right now.
Last edited by Xur on Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CatharzGodfoot
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Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Rereading the SRD:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes ... tsiderType
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes ... iveSubtype
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm
[*]Darkvision out to 60 feet.
[*]Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
[*]Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
[*]Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
[*]Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.
Neither of the Planetouched descriptions contradict any of this. Neither PC race stat block lists type or subtype, so you should go with what's in the monster stat block (unless you think that PC planetouched have absolutely no type at all).


But the greater question is 'is the Outsider type good for the game?'. The answer is, of course, no. Outsider should either be a subtype or should not exist at all (we still have subtypes like baatezu and tanar'ri).
Last edited by CatharzGodfoot on Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ice9
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Post by Ice9 »

That's actually something I like about 4E - the type/origin split seems like a cleaner way of doing things.
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Post by Koumei »

Don't you become [Extraplanar] (and lose [Native]) if you go to a plane you are not native to? Does this mean that when an Ass-mart Planeshifts, they lose the need to eat and sleep?
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Post by LR »

No. Unlike [Extraplanar], [Native] is a proper subtype that isn't removed or added when you go planehopping.
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Re: Outsiders in 3.5 - good or bad?

Post by Korwin »

Xur wrote: Are there any spells or effects that particularly effect/target outsiders?*
The biggest offender is Alter Self and the upgrades (Polymorph, Draconic Polymorph).
So if you are playing with those spells, they got better (note: those are allready overpowered.)

Another question would be, which version of Aasimar are you using. (LA or no LA).
And even if you use the LA version, there is at least on Outsider without Level Adjustment...
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Re: Outsiders in 3.5 - good or bad?

Post by Xur »

Korwin wrote:The biggest offender is Alter Self and the upgrades (Polymorph, Draconic Polymorph).
So if you are playing with those spells, they got better (note: those are allready overpowered.)
How are these offenders in combination with Outsiders?
Korwin wrote:Another question would be, which version of Aasimar are you using. (LA or no LA).
And even if you use the LA version, there is at least on Outsider without Level Adjustment...
I'm using SRD Aasimar (if it somes to play, no idea what the player will choose in the end), but just ignoring the LA+1. I know there is a LA+0 version, but no idea where.
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Re: Outsiders in 3.5 - good or bad?

Post by RobbyPants »

Xur wrote:
Korwin wrote:The biggest offender is Alter Self and the upgrades (Polymorph, Draconic Polymorph).
So if you are playing with those spells, they got better (note: those are allready overpowered.)
How are these offenders in combination with Outsiders?
Alter Self allows you to assume a creature of the same type as your normal form. So, instead of picking from humanoids, you get to pick from outsiders.

Polymorph lets you choose from a list of creature types or your own. Outsider is not listed in the types, but humanoid is. So an outsider using Polymorph can turn into outsiders in addition to other types. Humanoids cannot.
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Post by Xur »

Forgive me if I'm dumb and stupid right now, but I still don't see what is bad about that?
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erik
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Post by erik »

Outsider forms are superior.

God, I recall back in 3e before there was any polymorph errata at all. My party wound up having two members run around polymorphed into solar-form. That pretty much broke all combats with a monk and an arcane archer with almost no magic items.
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Post by Korwin »

For Alter Self, use the Dwarven Ancestor (MM4 or 5), +20 NRK...

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ ... Thread_3.5
Last edited by Korwin on Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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erik
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Post by erik »

Am I reading that right that Dwarf Ancestor has +18 natural armor?

I didn't find it directly on your linked thread, had to go down other links on it to the Alter Self thread
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Post by CatharzGodfoot »

I assume that NRK stands for Natural aRmor Klass.
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Post by Korwin »

Yeah the dwarfen ancestor has an insane amount of Natural Armor. (so its 'only' +18)

NRK, got the German version...
(Natürliche Rüstungs Klasse, I think...)
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