The Gaming Den

Kaelik · King Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6744

In addition to being saner, it appears to be the only sensible interpretation.

While "strike" is not a game defined term, it makes more sense to say "A Whirlwind attack strikes multiple enemies" than it does to say "A Whirlwind is a single strike that hits multiple enemies."

So yes, a strike is a single hit on a single creature, and you have to Kai lots of time. It doesn't say you Kai an attack roll, you Kai a successful strike.

Further reasoning, a Whirlwind is where you roll one attack roll against six enemies.

Two of them have AC 20, 4 of them have AC 40. You roll a 35. If your whirlwind was one strike, was it a successful one? Was it confirmed as a hit? If so does that mean you now critted (and therefore, automatically hit even though you didn't exceed their AC) the other 4?

No, I can see basically no argument for Kaiing an entire Whirlwind with one usage.
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BearsAreBrown · Master Joined: 09 Oct 2010 Posts: 198

Kiai! and similar abilities force players to use scythes or picks. Will this be errata'd?

Dominicius · Knight Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 406

Well I might have a solution:

When you are using a weapon with a x2 crit modifier you can force a critical by expanding one use of Khiai!, as normal. However, if you are wielding a x3 crit weapon you need to expand two uses of Khiai! to force a critical. A x4 weapon consumes 3 uses of Khiai! and so on.

This means that while your critical hits will be more powerful if you wield those weapons, you will have less of them each day. This way the guy who picked the katana won't feel like he made a completely sub-optimal choice.

CatharzGodfoot · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject:

RadiantPhoenix · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:45 pm Post subject:

Dominicius · Knight Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 406

?

Why?
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Kaelik · King Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6744

I have no problem with only scythe/pickax/longbow Samurai.

If Frank or K or someone else wants to present a competent fix of the type:

19-20 x2 = x3 ect, that also somehow doesn't make anything with more than a scythe currently has, and also doesn't improve scythes with a spell cast on them that increases their crit range, and presents a compelling argument for implementing it. I will totally put that in the errata, but if such a system existed and worked, Frank could just edit into the Races of War or whatever.

However, I personally have no problem with scythe samurai, and that sort of fix is outside the scope of this errata document if it's not an actual problem with the game, which I fail to see how it is.
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RadiantPhoenix · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject:

Dominicius · Knight Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 406

For one, the samurai does not care how often a weapon crits so neither should we and secondly, basing it on crit range opens the door to a lot more abuse and headache than simply basing on the critical multiplier.
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Midnight_v · Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:53 am Post subject:

Kaelik · King Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6744

Josh_Kablack · Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:29 am Post subject:

Note the even the less-powerful interpretation still lets a samuri multi-kiai! during a single whirlwind, it just charges him multiple daily uses to do so. Under that interpretation, a level 6 samurai can still Kiai! up to 5 dudes in one whirlwind - it just uses up all of their daily uses. Under the other interpretation a level 6 samurai can Kiai! N dudes in a round, and still have four uses left, letting them Kiai! any number of dudes (who meet whirlwind target restrictions) for a total of 5 rounds.

And since I don't see that the less-powerful interpretation is quite as obvious as Kaelik does, let me propose a small wording change to remove any ambiguity and clarify that it is multiple attacks from one roll:

Whirlwind [Combat]
You are just as dangerous to everyone around you as to anyone around you.
Benefits: As a full round action, you may make a single attack against each opponent you can reach. Roll one single attack roll for all of these attacks and compare it to each available opponent's AC individually.
+1: You gain a +3 bonus to Balance checks.
+6: As a full round action, you may take a regular move action and make a single attack against each opponent you can reach at any point during your movement. Roll one single attack roll for all of these attacks and compare to each available opponent's AC individually.
+11: Until your next round after making a whirlwind attack, you may take an attack of opportunity against any opponent that enters your threatened area.
+16: As a full round action, you take a charge action, overrunning any creature in your path, and may make a single attack against each opponent you can reach at any point during your movement. Roll one single attack roll for all of these attacks and compare to each available opponent's AC individually.

*********

As for the "Kiai! makes samurai use high multiplier instead of high range weapons" arguments. I just can't see why I should care.
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Prak_Anima · Overlord Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 9026

Honestly, I'd go for the "Kiai! each target individually" interpretation, because typically you see a Samurai crit-whirlwind a single group of mooks, and then fight normally, implying he can't do it again that encounter/day.
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Midnight_v · Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject:

Judging__Eagle · Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject:

Dominicius · Knight Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 406

So I've been kinda disappointed with how weaksauce the flaming and dispelling qualities are, especially compared to Lesser Time Distortion. So I've made a slight change.

Caustic: A caustic weapon leaves burning acid behind as it slices and dices. A victim who fails a fortitude save suffers a number of d6 acid damage per enhancement bonus of the weapon every round until the acid is diluted (normally by dumping water on the victim).

Too strong?
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Surgo · Duke Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 1593

Replying to an old thread!

Just wanted to note that I've bundled up the magic item revisions into a short wiki article (with some small revisions of my own), which I'll have finished posting soon (along with creation rules). If there's no objection, I'll work a lot of the errata into the various original wiki articles as well.
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Kaelik · King Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 6744

Surgo · Duke Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 1593

There's a fourth option, that you may or may not find acceptable: list you as a contributor. Is that cool, or should I stick to one of the three you have listed?
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Red_Rob · Duke Joined: 17 Jul 2009 Posts: 1863

Kaelik, I don't know if you're still bothered about this project, but after running a campaign using this I had some thoughts on your magic item rules.

Firstly, whilst your item system is much more finished than the ideas presented in Book of Gears, it seems you haven't gone far enough on the consumables front. The problem items are wands, scrolls and potions. Here are my thoughts.

Wands: