E20?

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:01 am

Is there even anyone actually waiting on this thing by now?

Bihlbo · Post by **Bihlbo** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:38 am

PhoneLobster wrote:Waiting on this game is getting increasingly annoying.

Thanks for doing it for me. I certainly wasn't going to do it.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:12 am

TOZ wrote:Is there even anyone actually waiting on this thing by now?

Well clearly I am.

Not that I paid for it. Or will pay for it. But I DO intend to lay my hands on it and shake it in anger in some manner or other.

And my angry shaking hands are getting angry at the lack of shaking!

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:33 am

Well I look forward to the final results of the shaking, whenever they can be published!

John Magnum · Post by **John Magnum** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:23 am

Wow. This is unbelievable.

Ice9 · Post by **Ice9** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:28 am

E20 - the PnP Duke Nukem Forever? Actually, that did eventually come out, so I might be overly optimistic about E20 there.

erik · Post by **erik** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:37 am

In the vein of PnP Forever... I've been waiting for the next book of Hollow Earth Expedition for many years now.

Apparently it was first planned in 2006 listed as "Top Secret Third HEX Sourcebook" to be released TBD (maybe 2008-2009?). In upcoming releases it was kept like that for years until "Revelations of Mars" was noted as being the next source book.

But it is still TBD release date here in 2012. At least in August 2011 some tantalizing pics were released of sample characters from the new book, so work is getting done, just at a glacial pace.

Looking back the 3rd book was released 4 years after the first, with release dates getting bumped back for 2 years. So this book #4 is likely coming 6-7 years after the first. I guess it's on pace, just oh, what a pace. A book almost every 2 years doesn't seem fast enough to support a line. I'd hope it is going to be released come GenCon, but... I know it hasn't been sent to the printers as of a couple weeks ago and that's starting to cut things close I reckon.

I feel really bad for HEX since the designer seems like a class act and the game was a lot of fun and I thought it could have done well to fill in the gap for disaffected RPGers over the last 5 years with a more aggressive publishing schedule and marketing, but instead it has stayed mostly under the radar.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:42 pm

TOZ wrote:Is there even anyone actually waiting on this thing by now?

Well I sort of wait. Because I dont think I get my money back...
(Yes, I was one of those suckers.)

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:11 pm

Isn't the whole point of kickstarter that you get the money back if the project folds?

-Username17

John Magnum · Post by **John Magnum** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:15 pm

You get the money back if the project fails to raise the target amount of money by the fundraising deadline. If they DO raise the target amount by the target date, the transactions go through. As long as the project runner raises $X by Date Y, Kickstarter disavows responsibility:

Kickstarter Help Page wrote: How do I know a project will be completed as promised?

Each project is crafted solely by its creator, and it’s up to them to make the case that they can successfully bring their project to life. Part of every creator’s job is earning their backers’ trust, especially backers who don’t personally know them.

Creators are encouraged to share links to their personal website(s), as well as any websites that show work related to the project, or past projects.

The web is an excellent resource for learning about someone’s prior experience. If someone has no demonstrable prior history of doing something like their project or is unwilling to share information, backers should consider that when weighing a pledge. If something sounds too good to be true, it very well may be.

(source)

Starmaker · Post by **Starmaker** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:55 pm

Meanwhile...
another RPG that YOU can write!
That pile of wtf collected $618, with three idiots pitching in $100 each.
Are people getting more intelligent?

Looks like the answer is no. $15000 (out of $33000) for statting mythical characters straight from the encyclopedia (softcover, bw interior art)? Seriously? Since when did that shit became marketable?

Krusk · Post by **Krusk** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:17 pm

Read the comments for that first one. Guy got in trouble with SKR for using copyright images.

Seems like he has a solid well thought out project.

These kickstarter ideas have me tempted to just throw some of my homebrew stuff out there and see if anyone will pay me for it. That dude got 600$. I could use 600$. Throw some "Roleplaying is fun, I want to make a fun RPG for fun-ness. Number crunchers ruin games." bloat on the front. Maybe I can trick people into paying and not realizing that the rules are actually solid too. I might have too much integrity. We will see.

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:16 am

Wow, I feel like writing and publishing my RPG without Kickstarter has been a horrible mistake.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:09 am

Starmaker wrote:Looks like the answer is no. $15000 (out of $33000) for statting mythical characters straight from the encyclopedia (softcover, bw interior art)? Seriously? Since when did that shit became marketable?

And someone pledged $2000 for it? They must really like Steve Long.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:38 am

I worry you know. This last week I've tried some searchings on the internets a few times.

This, as in this thread, this one right here, which we are in, right now, this thread, is the biggest thread I can seem to find on the internet even talking about the e20, er, 'delays'.

Extensive wasted time has yielded a d20 modern/SAGA edition dedicated forum with ONE contemporary thread a whole 6 posts long. This worries me, I mean sure, active d20 Modern and SAGA edition fans, what with the um, enduring qualities of those games, must number in the many many, er, dozens globally.

But they are like the KEY audience for this release and only 2 guys on a dedicated fan forum give a half hearted crap that it's late for maybe six whole posts?

I may in actual fact be the ONLY PERSON on the planet following this non-event. Which while hilarious on, oh hell, ANY number of levels does in fact, officially "Worry Me".

Because if no one gives a crap when or if this PDF comes out then it may be, er, less than accessible by means other than throwing money at GMSarli, which I'm not entirely sure he can handle the responsibility of catching in his Twittering maw without it becoming a choke hazard.

I also worry that GMSarli will walk into the ocean rather than face the terror of actually making a deadline for once, or that by the time I can make fun of this in 2015 there will somehow less value in me being able to say "I Told You so!" to the idiots on Brilliant Gameolgists when I have to remind them who the hell I am and how they told me how awesome this as yet still not real game was five fucking years ago.

Dammit.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:32 pm

We have the best First World Problems.

If you ask for mocking support here, you'll probably get some. I find this whole saga pretty hilarious.

ckafrica · Post by **ckafrica** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:43 am

Starmaker wrote:Meanwhile...
another RPG that YOU can write!
That pile of wtf collected $618, with three idiots pitching in $100 each.
Are people getting more intelligent?

Looks like the answer is no. $15000 (out of $33000) for statting mythical characters straight from the encyclopedia (softcover, bw interior art)? Seriously? Since when did that shit became marketable?

Joshua frost is playing the open play-test card to great effect and holy shit OOTS reprint has over 1 millionpledged

How do I get in on this racket?

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:04 am

ckafrica wrote:How do I get in on this racket?

Well... it's clearly largely about internet presence and having a recognized name and everything else be damned.

BUT it can also be about timing and tiny fanatical communities.

Some speculate, and I agree, that e20 raised it's $13,000+ largely because the start up was timed straight after the official discontinuation of star wars SAGA edition. GMSarli was a name associated with that, and e20 was pushed hard as a SAGA successor and all, gosh, maybe 20? of the die hard internet SAGA edition fans were still fresh and frustrated and looking for a stupid investment that would return the same sort of horrendously bad RPG rules experience they had so enjoyed in SAGA edition.

SO. If you want to do this. Successfully. And (kinda) honestly with an actual product at the end and the prospect for a sequel.

1) You need a name idiots know. I recommend "Mike Mearls".

2) You need a community of idiots ripe for harvesting. In this case our closest bet is probably the die hard internet 4E Essentials fans (all 20 of them) who are on the let down and fear 5E will depart from all the terrible bullshit they self defeatingly identify with.

3) At this stage you can pull a GMSarli take the money and run. OR you could just hack together a second rate appropriately buzz word filled rule set over night release the whole raw document as part of your promotional material and sell the entire kick starter project as "If you pay me X I will play test this for five minutes, then make it look pretty and stick in an illustrated book Just For U!"

It's crazy, it's distasteful, it's the one reason in the world to legally change your name to "Mike Mearls" (when they find out tell the fans it is a homage to your commitment to continuing the spirit of 4E and it's creators, not some sort of rube confusing con job name bait, they will believe you, they are that dumb and that desperate for the bland lump claiming to be an Essentials Clone).

PS Step 4) When you do this Phonelobster Start Ups demands you deliver at least 20% of your somewhat legitimate profits to him by means of throwing them at your computer monitor or methods equally expeditious.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:33 pm

PhoneLobster wrote: OR you could just hack together a second rate appropriately buzz word filled rule set over night release the whole raw document as part of your promotional material and sell the entire kick starter project as "If you pay me X I will play test this for five minutes, then make it look pretty and stick in an illustrated book Just For U!"

You forgot: "For $2,500 I will bring this shitty document to your house and pretend to be your friend for a while!!"

Seriously, the Steve Long and Josh Frost projects both have something like that.

EDIT: It does make you wonder how much shilling is going on, though (e.g. people pledging to their own project, trying to drum up business).

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:06 am

Does kickstarter seriously take 10% of all the raised funds?

- Edit: Apparently not, it takes 5% if the project is succesful.
I guess I misread this sentence: "The total funding goal is comprised of 10% Kickstarter fees and Amazon fees"

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:59 pm

Hey Hey. Update Time.

So as you all know GM Sarli was supposed to be finished late the month before last and the product entirely out mid last month.

For that entire period and the lead up he dropped off his twitter feed of hamster comments, star wars fucking trivia and RPG banter. And in two months only used it three times (instead of the usual many times a day) and only did so in order to celebrate april fools (the ass) and the 3rd and 4th year anniversaries of the deaths of notable RPG designers (Who the hell observes the annual death anniversaries of RPG designers WTF?)

But then just recently. Much to everyone's not surprise...

GMSarli wrote: Hello, all. Sorry for being out of touch for the past 2 months; I've had some very serious health problems. I'll update as I'm able.

Yeah. Anyway. He hasn't managed to be "able" enough to make that promised update in the last 5 days and his main e20 page still has the "Merry X-mas a couple of days ago and no, as you noticed the game I promised you all for X-mas didn't arrive! Hohohoho! And good cheer to all!" message.

Considering his usual recovery time scale, I expect we will have our status update and some new empty promises or apologies some time in July. Possibly even July this year.

MfA · Post by **MfA** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:49 am

I have considered backing some mechanical kickstarter projects because I recognize the need for up front tooling costs ... but if all someone need is time to write then why the hell would you give them money up front?

If they are good and dedicated they will write it with or without funding, free time can always be found. If they are merely good but lazy and you give them the money up front they are actually less likely to finish in the first place ... by giving them money up front you're actually fucking up your own chances of getting anything good written.

PhoneLobster · Post by **PhoneLobster** » Wed May 30, 2012 2:14 am

Ah screw it. Content free e20 update. Again. Damnit.

So no full official updates yet (my bet on July for an update seems increasingly over optimistic).

What we have? The twitter update from a while ago apologizing for delay, promising a real update, and giving the excuse of undisclosed serious health problems.

Then an announcement that his very elderly cat died.

(Was it the cat with the serious health problems?)

Then a sorta "screw you too universe" twitter comment.

And well over a month of silence.

The only other two guys on the public internet talking about this however include an insider who says...

Gary has given permission to the highest ranking patron to release the manuscript chapter by chapter for review. It will be reviewed in the private forum. This patron will act as co-author and work out the kinks in the system. No major overhaul will be allowed. This move may have been triggered, in part, by a few posts of angry senior patrons who have, in very clear terms, threatened to launch a law suit.

Gary continues to have serious health problems of undisclosed nature.

So it's become a private forum trickle down pyramid scheme for partial trickle feed rules release to those threatening law suits.

A totally awesome set up to "totally prove the rules totally exist" by releasing "its just a draft so it has an excuse to seem dodgy like I am writing it at the last second" at a rate that "just by coincidence might be a rate at which it might be being written at the last minute" and on top of that done through a front man so fuck knows what if GM Sarli even is doing that much. That is, if the trickle feed as promised even pans out.

Sigh. Private e20 forums, how I resent your apparent successful privacy. What secrets do you hold?

Oh and again...

Gary continues to have serious health problems of undisclosed nature.

Health problems. Secret ones. Crippling secret health problems being used an excuse for robbing some presumably large number of chumps while still remaining entirely secret.

Secret health problems that may or may not be related to his already admitted crippling mental health issues.

And may or may not be his own health issues or those of his deceased elderly cat.

Thank you internet. Thank you for getting me involved in following this project. Thanks a lot.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Wed May 30, 2012 2:53 am

Nick Logue finally admitted that part of what derailed his Razor Coast project was alcoholism. Bummer.

Bigode · Post by **Bigode** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:07 am

hogarth wrote:Nick Logue finally admitted that part of what derailed his Razor Coast project was alcoholism. Bummer.

So not necessarily oxycodone; maybe just booze.