Hindsight is 20/20 and stuff, but Frank seriously underestimated the impact of professional presentation. Art by WAR + "a lot of designers you may remember are working for us" = suddenly, the biggest game in town.Lago PARANOIA wrote:To be fair to Frank, I don't think that even in 2010 with 4E D&D imploding so spectacularly, that they would've shit the bed that badly. But with Pathfinder beating the pants off of 4E D&D and on track to beat the pants off of 5E D&D, it might just be part of TTRPG history. If only to highlight the embarrassing fuckups of D&D.
E20?
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nockermensch
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@ @ Nockermensch
Koumei wrote:After all, in Firefox you keep tabs in your browser, but in SovietPutin's Russia, browser keeps tabs on you.
Mord wrote:Chromatic Wolves are massively under-CRed. Its "Dood to stone" spell-like is a TPK waiting to happen if you run into it before anyone in the party has Dance of Sack or Shield of Farts.
Pathfinder's still pretty tiny compared to 3e, or even AD&D. Beating 4e was winning by default, there's not even any other in-print "D&D" to play any more, and hasn't been for years. Even the reprints WotC is dropping out are only in stock a month or two each.
Like professionals, eh, that Paizo. Finished product, for sale, now. Supporting the desires of paying customers with endless fucking character options and new things to play when you're done with the old ones. Givin' 'em what they want.
As compared to the E20 guy, who (like a few others in the rush for free money) discovered that polishing turds is hard work and interferes with sitting on the couch talking shit about RPGs all day. You know; tried for a bit, found it to be hard work, and gave up.
Like professionals, eh, that Paizo. Finished product, for sale, now. Supporting the desires of paying customers with endless fucking character options and new things to play when you're done with the old ones. Givin' 'em what they want.
As compared to the E20 guy, who (like a few others in the rush for free money) discovered that polishing turds is hard work and interferes with sitting on the couch talking shit about RPGs all day. You know; tried for a bit, found it to be hard work, and gave up.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
Apparently the e20 guy is now on meds and thinking about finishing e20....
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
What? Will this project please just whimper away and die? What's next, a magic system by Monte Cook and dungeon advise from James Maliziewski? I mean, who'd even play e20, realistically? Anyone not satisfied with good ol' 3.X, Pathfinder, Ponyfinder, StarWars d20, or what have you already moved the fuck on.Korwin wrote:Apparently the e20 guy is now on meds and thinking about finishing e20....
Last edited by Antariuk on Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." - Steven Brust
Ponyfinder? That one is was new to me...Antariuk wrote:What? Will this project please just whimper away and die? What's next, a magic system by Monte Cook and dungeon advise from James Maliziewski? I mean, who'd even play e20, realistically? Anyone not satisfied with good ol' 3.X, Pathfinder, Ponyfinder, StarWars d20, or what have you already moved the fuck on.Korwin wrote:Apparently the e20 guy is now on meds and thinking about finishing e20....
...googling now...
Last edited by Korwin on Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
I'm guessing nothing happened?Korwin wrote:Apparently the e20 guy is now on meds and thinking about finishing e20....
Gary Gygax wrote:The player’s path to role-playing mastery begins with a thorough understanding of the rules of the game
Bigode wrote:I wouldn't normally make that blanket of a suggestion, but you seem to deserve it: scroll through the entire forum, read anything that looks interesting in term of design experience, then come back.
Well, his website no longer exists... and he seems to randomly pop onto Twitter with stupid stuff a handful of times every few months.fbmf wrote:Dare I ask for an update?
Game On,
fbmf
I think it's still vaporware.
Phlebotinum : fleh-bot-ih-nuhm • A glossary of RPG/Dennizen terminology • Favorite replies: [1]
nockermensch wrote:Advantage will lead to dicepools in D&D. Remember, you read this here first!
Eww. This is depressing.
On one hand I feel like his attitude to his obligations on a project for which he has been paid in advance is a bit laissez faire, on the other hand, he clearly wasn't prepared for this level of responsibility and shouldn't have been given such a big project to coordinate without some oversight, and he never would've been were it not for kickstarter.
The thing is, if you know all this stuff about yourself, why do you accept money in advance for a project you might not complete? Stifling doubts, wishful thinking? I suppose bipolar makes sense.
On one hand I feel like his attitude to his obligations on a project for which he has been paid in advance is a bit laissez faire, on the other hand, he clearly wasn't prepared for this level of responsibility and shouldn't have been given such a big project to coordinate without some oversight, and he never would've been were it not for kickstarter.
The thing is, if you know all this stuff about yourself, why do you accept money in advance for a project you might not complete? Stifling doubts, wishful thinking? I suppose bipolar makes sense.
Because Kickstarter can't make you give it back. So free money!SlyJohnny wrote:Eww. This is depressing.
On one hand I feel like his attitude to his obligations on a project for which he has been paid in advance is a bit laissez faire, on the other hand, he clearly wasn't prepared for this level of responsibility and shouldn't have been given such a big project to coordinate without some oversight, and he never would've been were it not for kickstarter.
The thing is, if you know all this stuff about yourself, why do you accept money in advance for a project you might not complete? Stifling doubts, wishful thinking? I suppose bipolar makes sense.
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OgreBattle
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What exactly was the task at hand for e20, "my own house rules of D&D" is something that has been done to completion and published by dozens and dozens and maybe hundreds of people.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Then why all the oversharing about his mental disabilities? If all he wanted to do was get a sack of money and run off cackling into the sunset, he's achieved that goal. Clearly he thought he and his team were up to it and he was just wrong.Slade wrote:Because Kickstarter can't make you give it back. So free money!
Also, did people ever really care? Not that poking at failures like this one isn't fun, but I never got the impression that e20 was a huge deal in any way. The people who like to bitch about d20's failures mostly know what's wrong with the system and how to (hot-)fix stuff if necessary, and everyone else bought shiny new RPGs with full-color covers.
Look at the KS page, 148 people thought this idea was worth some money. Ignoring for a second the astonishing fact that, on average, every backer gave $100 bucks to Sarli, this whole thing was a niche project of a niche of a niche hobby and even if successful would never have amounted to a higher presence than, say, Trailblazer.
Look at the KS page, 148 people thought this idea was worth some money. Ignoring for a second the astonishing fact that, on average, every backer gave $100 bucks to Sarli, this whole thing was a niche project of a niche of a niche hobby and even if successful would never have amounted to a higher presence than, say, Trailblazer.
Last edited by Antariuk on Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." - Steven Brust
Antariuk, someone here asked what it was, and this thread happened, mostly ranting about how d20 really needed some sort of official support so people didn't have to house-rule every damn thing, which at some point noted this guy took the money and didn't produce a game with it, and still hasn't.
So in the sense of "does anyone ever anything", yes, some people did care a little. And it turned out Pathfinder became the new d20. "Compatible with Pathfinder" is something other companies happily put on their game products.
So in the sense of "does anyone ever anything", yes, some people did care a little. And it turned out Pathfinder became the new d20. "Compatible with Pathfinder" is something other companies happily put on their game products.
PC, SJW, anti-fascist, not being a dick, or working on it, he/him.
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OgreBattle
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Well I got to know him back then, as one of the people whose name was on Star Wars Saga Edition and who was active on the wotc Forums.OgreBattle wrote:How should one approach a tabletop RPG kickstarter to get the most money out of it without having any 'well known' (D&D, White Wolf, etc.) RPG creditials to begin with?
It sounds like this guy just came out of nowhere and got thousands from 148 people.
Looked it up on Kickstarter, did get suckered out of $ 50,--
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
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PhoneLobster
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He may not have been well known, and I doubt even among his supporters his name wasn't even something they really knew.
Until he offered them something they desperately wanted at a time they desperately wanted it. However accidental or misguided but honest his timing and offer may have been.
The fans of Saga edition and D20Modern were always very few in number. BUT around the end of the practical life span of Saga, and thus the end of the successor to D20Modern, what little community of fans that WAS left, were raving unreasoning fanatics and they were hungry for more of the same terrible rules, he offered, they could dig around and find his name loosely attached to these inexplicably sacred games of shitty RPG fans in various capacities and that was good enough.
At least, that's my theory, and certainly the reason I ever followed this vaporous games non-progress was thanks to exposure to fanatics like that on a thread arguing about d20Modern in which d20Modern defenders assured me that E20 was a natural evolution and improvement on (already perfect) d20Modern and that the entire huge d20Modern fan base was already playing E20 instead.
A claim which, over the years, has turned out to increasingly be really VERY remarkable.
Until he offered them something they desperately wanted at a time they desperately wanted it. However accidental or misguided but honest his timing and offer may have been.
The fans of Saga edition and D20Modern were always very few in number. BUT around the end of the practical life span of Saga, and thus the end of the successor to D20Modern, what little community of fans that WAS left, were raving unreasoning fanatics and they were hungry for more of the same terrible rules, he offered, they could dig around and find his name loosely attached to these inexplicably sacred games of shitty RPG fans in various capacities and that was good enough.
At least, that's my theory, and certainly the reason I ever followed this vaporous games non-progress was thanks to exposure to fanatics like that on a thread arguing about d20Modern in which d20Modern defenders assured me that E20 was a natural evolution and improvement on (already perfect) d20Modern and that the entire huge d20Modern fan base was already playing E20 instead.
A claim which, over the years, has turned out to increasingly be really VERY remarkable.
Last edited by PhoneLobster on Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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While I'm not an d20 modern fan, I do agree about the Timing.
If I remember correctly, it was also after or around the time the 4e sleeping pill got out.
If I remember correctly, it was also after or around the time the 4e sleeping pill got out.
Red_Rob wrote: I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.