nWoD may be bad, but help me do character stuff...

Stories about games that you run and/or have played in.

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Prak
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Post by Prak »

I was joking of course, but it's serious straight up bullshit.
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Post by Rejakor »

I've been considering joining the Sydney Cam, either the Mage larp that they're starting (the GM ran a freeform at Macquariecon that was quite good and when I talked to him seemed like a pretty cool dude), or the vampire game, so this advice kinda applies to me as well.

That summation of the bloodlines and clans (or whatever they're called) was the shortest, best, and most useful one that i've seen (and i've tried several times to gain some kind of understanding of it.. the actual book just spouts on about crap for seventy-million pages).
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Be useful.

You get your pick of the litter.

If you're a S&M queen your options will be limited to people who are attracted to S&M queens. While a more 'rounded' character has a higher chance of interacting with more people. You can increase the 'dominance' factor, and people will think you're both useful, and either domineering, powerful, or just plain bossy (watch yourself on that, 'bossy' is the last thing you want).

Chatting with people in a friendly manner; and then doing stuff with them, means that they'll bond with you, making it very likely that they'll think that you're worth keeping alive, and will try to get you patched up and alive if something happens to you. "Not dying" is a pretty important goal in making a character that you plan to use for a while.

There are some players that pick up abilities specifically so that people will want them around, and alive; not for their social graces, or other capabilities. You could play a handicapped character (crippled (can't run, move quickly), deaf, or mute), and people will still want your character around, if you have useful abilities. If anything, they'll think you're a good roleplayer, on top of your having useful abilities; and among larpers being "good at roleplay" will give you tons of cred.

If you play your cards right, you can be useful to multiple groups, that hopefully aren't antagonistic. Having lots of people who know you're useful is going to give you more options in terms of who you can hang around with than almost anything else could. Since larping is really a social game, being able to choose who you hang out with is what I equate with 'succeeding'.

Ultimately, it's about trying to make a character that either fails, or doesn't fail. My own criteria are:

-A non-failure is pretty much any PC that other PCs will spend resources on to keep alive/active. They both like you, and know that keeping you around is a good idea.

-A failure character is, imo at least, anyone that pisses off enough people who aren't active PKers that they will group up and kill your character. They both don't like you, and don't think you're useful enough to keep around. You have to really fuck up to do this, since

-I also feel that a failure PC is also one that dies before achieving any sort of character development, or character change.

Failure characters
I've seen a few at larps.

There's seriously a person that I know who has made several such characters. They were big fighting types, with 'other' special abilities to augment their fighting (the game has a few sub systems, and mixing any two usually leads to an effective character); and... they engaged in PKing. The player seriously counts his PKs by weapon, "this [weapon] has X kills on it" stuff like that.

Sort of creepy now that I think about it. Sort of really creepy. PKing has always sort of left me uneasy.

All of this person's PCs were big (lots of character points), and some had weird abilities that other PCs didn't have access to; but ultimately, if 6 people want to tool you down; and they are even 1/10th of your power each, you're going down.

In real life, being mobbed up will fuck you up. Don't piss off lots of people.
Also, small breasts should not be against the law. I prefer to discriminate based on other criteria.



Paintball guns....nerf guns would also work. It does look silly; but the cops aren't going to pull anyone aside. Spray painting your launcher black is a serious beating offense though. The last thing you ever want to do is make people think you're carrying actual firearms in public.

I'm... also doing some research into local wod larp chapters. >_>

All of this talk makes me interested in what is happening locally. I know it probably sucks; but you can have lots of fun, even if the rules are shit.
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koumei »

Okay, so here's a proposed character.

Name: INSERT NAME HERE
Clan: Mekhet
Covenant: Invictus
Virtue: Hope or Justice
Vice: Wrath or Pride
Int*****Str**Pre**
Wit***Dex***Man*
Res**Sta*Com****

Bonus went to Int

Skills:
Academics 1
Investigation 2
Occult 4 (Ghosts)

Athletics 1
Firearms 4 (small SMGs)
Stealth 1

Empathy 3 (Lie Detector)
Expression 2
Intimidation 2
Persuasion 3
Socialise 2

Merits:
Boost Blood Potency 3
Resources 3
Status 2
Combat Marksman 1

Disciplines:
Auspex 3
Linagem 1
Obfuscate 1

Size: 5
Health: 6
Willpower: 6
Blood Potency: 2
Vitae: 6/11
Speed: 9
Initiative: 7 (11 when using a firearm)
Armour: Sexy Kevlar (Melee 1 Firearms 2 Bulletproof)
Defence: 3 (Dodge 6)
Humanity: 7

Weapon: Ingram mac-10 (Size: 1, Damage: 2, auto, 30+1 clip, usual dicepool: 3+5+2 = 10)

---

Any suggested improvements? I could swap out the other disciplines and go for Auspex 4, but Telepathy (Not Very Effective against other players) doesn't seem that useful. That being said, Projection does seem pretty handy. And could be a hilarious way to get around Predator's Taint if anyone ever used it.

Also, apparently they do one thing slightly differently with the roll: a total of 8 is one success, then every 3 adds another (8, 11, 14, 17, 20). But I'm not sure this will actually affect the way the game is played out. Unlikely. I mean, people are still generally rolling with a bigger bonus than +8, so it's just always "10% failure chance unless it's opposed".

---

Edit: XP Expenditure:
Res 2 (10)
Athletics 1 (3)
Stealth 1 (3)
Intimidate 2 (6)
Obfuscate 1 (5)
Status 1+2 (2+4=6)
Auspex 3 (15)
Quickdraw (2)
Last edited by Koumei on Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:48 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by Nicklance »

Koumei, is this a 7/5/3 or 7/4/3 stat array? Because assuming either would not require you to buy your Stamina to 2 anyway while all stats begin at 1 dot.

Unless I'm mistaken between Mind's Eye and Tabletop rule sets.
Last edited by Nicklance on Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koumei »

Whoops. It's "all start at one, 5/4/3". It was Res that I spent XP to boost to 2, not Sta.
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Post by Nicklance »

Koumei wrote:Whoops. It's "all start at one, 5/4/3". It was Res that I spent XP to boost to 2, not Sta.
Here's what you have:
Int*****Str*Pre**
Wit***Dex***Man*
Res**Sta**Com****

Bonus went to Int
Res (instead of Sta) 2 (10)
So I assume that:
Mental: Int +4, Wit +2, Res +0 = +6
Physical: Str +0, Dex +2, Sta +2 = +4
Social: Pre +2, Man +0, Com +3 = ++5

You've got 3 more dots unaccounted for. How much bonus were you given to Int ?

P.S: 5/4/3 is harsh, but maybe NWoD runs like that. I'm from OWoD and 7/5/3 is common.
Last edited by Nicklance on Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koumei »

Int +3 (4) - then +1 for being Mekhet (5)
Wit +2 (3)
Res +0 (1) - then XP spent to raise it (2)
= 3+2+0 = 5

Str +0 (1)
Dex +2 (3)
Sta +1 (2)
= 0+2+1 = 3

Pre +1 (2)
Man +0 (1)
Com +3 (4)
= 1+0+3 = 4

I'm pretty sure you read it wrong there unless my brain completely broke somewhere.
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Post by Nicklance »

My bad. I tend to look at dots funny.
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Post by Username17 »

If you're spending 10 XP to raise Stamina from 2 to 3, why is your Dexterity only 3? Shouldn't it be 4?

Also, consider going pistol style instead of highlander style. Firstly, most swords are strength based. And secondly, if the group uses the expansion options, you may be able to to take the elusive "three shots a round" style from having Combat Marksman and Composure to 5. This will let you in turn dish out enough bashing boxes to actually drop foes in a round - at which point it does not fucking matter what other people do. It's the one and only combat style that is appreciably different or better from the stndard one where you take <a weapon> and <a double attack move>. Of course, that being said: fencing is also perfectly viable with its "spend a willpower to deal extra wound levels" attack.

Also, Celerity is fucking useless. And the second level is insultingly useless. Celerity costs 1 blood a round. And each level subtracts 1 from an attack. No one is going to miss you because of that modifier, because they are still adding 15 or more to the draw and looking for a ten. So the only thing you're hoping for is that it might drop a damage box - and since nothing happens if you drop a 17 to a 16, each point of celerity has a cumulative 20% of blocking one damage box from each incoming attack. If you're seriously outnumbered, you're going down anyway. So really, the only advantage is the ability to escape from non-celerity thug groups. For 1 blood and Celerity 1 you can pop your speed up from 9 to 20 for one round, which should be enough to get you around the corner. The second level brings your celerity speed from 20 to 22 - which is just fucking lame.

True fact: at chargen you are specifically allowed to put one dot into a Boodline discipline. This is the only way to get a Bloodline discipline that is not associated with the one Bloodline you are ever allowed to activate. So if you want to give the middle finger to one of the bigger restrictions in the game, you gotta do it at chargen. And you do it by starting at Auspex 2 with one dot in some other Discipline that is not only not on your clan list, but isn't even on your normal learnable list. Because for some reason this is totally allowed in the Vampire template application. Specifically, by name. And it's not just table top, they rewrote it to be even more explicit in the MET book.

Good Bloodline disciplines to get include Voudoun (Ancient Bloodlines), Insomnium (Bloodlines: The Hidden), Linagem (Ancient Bloodlines), or Nburu (Ancient Bloodlines). You can only have one, and your group may not allow it. On account of being "obviously cheating" despite being explicitly allowed in the rules and reiterated for emphasis.

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Post by Koumei »

FrankTrollman wrote:If you're spending 10 XP to raise Stamina from 2 to 3, why is your Dexterity only 3? Shouldn't it be 4?
That was my mistake - it was Res that got boosted. Now, I could leave Sta at 1 and take Dex 4, but I'm not sure how wise that could be - it's possible I'm fucked the moment I get hit with or without that health level/soak. Your opinion?
Also, consider going pistol style instead of highlander style. Firstly, most swords are strength based. And secondly, if the group uses the expansion options, you may be able to to take the elusive "three shots a round" style from having Combat Marksman and Composure to 5.
Not sure what that's from, but sure. In general, pistols sounds better. So I'll go handgun, then later on look into Merits that allow me to shoot better.

I figure this way I'll have some basic thing I can do in a fight, even if all it does is pop a couple of health levels on an enemy and make it look like I'm contributing, while showing I'm clearly not dangerous enough the other players need to OM NOM NOM.

But mostly I'll help out as a CSI type person. Note to self: sunglasses.
Also, Celerity is fucking useless. And the second level is insultingly useless.
Removed, then, so I can start with Auspex 2, Bloodline 1, then buy Auspex to 3.
True fact: at chargen you are specifically allowed to put one dot into a Boodline discipline.
I remember there being an argument over that on these boards. But if the MET one makes it even more clear you totally can, then awesome. If the group doesn't like it, I'm sure I can put it somewhere else (even going Auspex 3 to start and dropping Obfuscate 1 and dumping all 20 XP into Auspex 4 so I'm only 25XP away from turning into a ghost).
Good Bloodline disciplines to get include Voudoun (Ancient Bloodlines), Insomnium (Bloodlines: The Hidden), Linagem (Ancient Bloodlines), or Nburu (Ancient Bloodlines).
Cool, I'll check them out.
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Post by Username17 »

Vampire Requiem nWoD MET, page 116 wrote:Each character begins with three dots of Disciplines, which can be allocated as the player chooses. At least two dots must be devoted to a character’s clan Disciplines, however, before any thought is given to an out-of-clan or bloodline Discipline. (That is, you may choose to spend two dots on clan Disciplines and a single dot on an out-of-clan or bloodline Discipline, but not two dots on out-of-clan or bloodline Disciplines and only one on a clan Discipline.) Each clan description that appears later in this chapter lists the Disciplines practiced by that lineage, along with some of the more prevalent bloodline variations.
Note: you get the Disciplines in Step Five of character generation, and you can choose to join a Bloodline in Step Seven. It's very cut and dried.

Some of the best bloodlines don't even have a bloodline discipline, they just come with some awesome devotion packages they can buy. You can't get those out-of-line because you need to spend XP on Devotions and you have to be an activated member of the line to spend XP on the first level of any bloodline thingy. And all devotions are the first level of themselves by definition. Sad really.

Also, a bunch of the neat bloodline disciplines from tabletop really blow in translation to LARP rules in nWoD. This is mostly because in basic rules you average one third of a success per die, meaning that a devoted character can expect 4-5 hits on tests. In MET, you have a 90% chance of getting one or more successes, but you only get one extra success per five bonus points on your test. This means that for example Courtoise, that lets you make a social test at the beginning of combat to get a bonus to your pool for the remainder of that combat totally sucks. Because now instead of getting 4-5 bonus dice that are worth 1-2 damage per attack, you are getting a +1-3 bonus to your test pool that is worth 20-60% of a damage per attack. A lot of disciplines revolve around justifying their existence by doing something completely recockulous with an extraordinary success. Because when you're rolling 13 dice with 10 again and 5 hits counts as extraordinary success... that happens a lot. But in MET, extraordinary success happens when you draw and add your bonus and get a 30 or more. And since your entire bonus is less than 20, that requires you to draw a natural 10 and then usually draw a high number after that. So you're looking at like a 4% chance of getting extraordinary success - which means it could seriously just never happen in the entire time you're playing the game.

Edit: Also...

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Last edited by Username17 on Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Koumei »

I'll keep that in mind - I tend to only bother looking at what happens on a regular Success/Failure. That being said, because of the modified system being used (8/+3), I'd only need a 20 total to get an amazing success. But that's still far less than guaranteed. I mean, much later on, after spending an assload of XP, I could get 5 (stat) + 5 (skill) + 5 (discipline) and only need a 5+, but that's best-case scenario. No way am I buying an ability just so that I can do something awesome 60% of the time if I pour all my resources into it.

Yeah, I've seen that one. I raise you:
http://www.pvponline.com/comics/pvp20090925.gif
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Post by Username17 »

I don't know what house rules your group will be using, of course. But in basic Mind's Eye Theater, Exceptional Success is basically impossible. Otherwise Sunnikuse would be fucking awesome. You spend an action and a Willpower to steal their luck, and if you get an extraordinary success (which in Tabletop you will, because it's not resisted and you can seriously get a +4 bonus if you tell them that they are doomed before you do it), their next action is an automatic dramatic failure and your next action is an automatic extraordinary success. No matter what those actions are. So then they get an action, but the least possible effect they could suffer from it is losing their turn. Then you get a turn and you can stake them with a thrown pencil from across the room. That's fucking quality.

If all you can get is a regular success, it only guarantees you one hit on your next test and it only guarantees regular failure for your opponent. So in the middle of combat they take some double attack action and lose their first and it's all totally fucking pointless. And definitely a waste of actions and willpower.

The MET rules in MET nWoD, page 167 say that you get outstanding success with a draw result of 30. I mean, there's a reason that the disciplines with LARP rules written for them don't even bother listing their Extraordinary Success lines. It's just not going to happen.

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Post by Koumei »

I went for Linagem, it seems more useful for my shtick.
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Post by endersdouble »

FrankTrollman wrote: Also, Celerity is fucking useless. And the second level is insultingly useless.
-Username17
...so they looked at the oWoD MET rules, which genuinely didn't suck, and said "Hey, let's cripple all the good options?"
Last edited by endersdouble on Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Username17 »

endersdouble wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote: Also, Celerity is fucking useless. And the second level is insultingly useless.
-Username17
...so they looked at the oWoD MET rules, which genuinely didn't suck, and said "Hey, let's cripple all the good options?"
Well, what they did is try to make all the stuff in the table top game directly portable to the LARP. So instead of reducing many disciplines from or even 7 levels down to 3, you keep all the levels of every written discipline. Instead of having a pile of physical, mental, and social traits you have an actual value in all nine stats. And so on. Really the only major difference in the engine is that instead of rolling a pile of dice and counting hits, you are essentially rolling one die and adding the total number of dice you would have rolled in table top, with the effects of additional hits being handed out at the rate of 1 every bonus five points you exceed the base TN of 10. This means that people get a lot less hits. And that seriously improves abilities where you need one hit (like Dominate) relative to actions where you need a lot of hits (like combat).

So the reason that Celerity is a fucking joke in nWoD LARP is because it is a fucking joke in nWoD table top as well. Celerity increases your run speed and causes enemies to do less damage to you with attacks. Ad costs 1 blood a round. Seriously, that's all it does. It doesn't give you extra attacks. If you want extra attacks you buy combat styles with your Merits (these are essentially like oWoD Backgrounds) that give you extra attacks. Most combat styles will give you an extra attack, but there are some batshit ones in Armory that do other stuff. Most notably "Combat Marksman" gives you an additional attack for every point your Composure exceeds 2. So if your Blood Potency gets high enough you can wander around getting oWoD numbers of gun attacks. With no celerity or blood expenditure at all.

Going through the nWoD combat styles is a little like going through the skill list in Palladium TMNT. All of them do seriously random shit. The way it works is that each dot of that Merit gives you access to a new combat maneuver. Some of these are totally worthless (such as "forgo attacking in order to reduce the test pool of someone attacking you by 3"), and some of these are bugfuck insane (such as the forementioned "get a fuck tonne of attacks). To give you an idea of how batshit these are, I'll write up "Fencing" and the special maneuvers you get with each level:
  • • +1 to all your attacks.
    •• You have the option to make a "fake" attack. If you hit and would do damage, you don't do any damage, but your next attack allows you to ignore a very small penalty that your opponent might place on your next attack called "defense" that is normally -2 or -3 and which is reduced anyway if you are attacking in a group or multiattacking, and which is already completely negated if your opponent is multiattacking.
    ••• When you get attacked, you can double your defense against that one attack and then take a bonus attack out of turn where neither you nor the target get to use defense any more.
    •••• You can spend a Willpower to supercharge a melee attack where if you hit your target will take a number of extra wound boxes equal to your Dexterity score.
Yes. It's seriously that random. The Fencing multiattack is incredibly good, because it allows you to apply your defense twice against one attack before cashing it all out and it negates your opponent's defense in case they actually don't have a multiattack technique. But the level 2 maneuver is one you will never ever use, because it is completely wank.

As you can imagine, there are styles that are terrible (of all four Chain Weapons maneuvers, only one is worth using under any circumstances), and ones that are awesome (Combat Marksman gives a big initiative bonus, free reloads, bonus damage, and multiattack in that order). Some give the ability you're after at level one, others give it at level 4. And there is no power level parity between different levels of different combat styles. So for example Fencing gives its multiattack at level 3, while Spetsnaz Knife Fighting gives a much worse multiattack at level 4.

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Post by NineInchNall »

This ... really makes me want to play a Ventrue. Hard.
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