Shadowrun 4e newbie questions

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:53 am

Should work. Well, once, untill it goes boom at least.
And because it's so high tech, it will be incredibly hard to do.
AND focus pricing goes from reach. And i suspect that severel hundred meters of reach would make that hellishly expensive as well.

Shrieking Banshee · Post by **Shrieking Banshee** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:02 pm

OK More Matrix Questions because the Matrix is the worst:

Subscriptions: Its easy to imagine Tron when thinking matrix however you can be subscribed to many nodes at once. And the idea is that your persona manifests in each node. Thats how you can be engaged in cybercombat in multiple nodes at once like multiple windows. How does this work. How does it look in tron? Are you in one node with a window to another?

Starting Node VS Persona: So is my persona inside its "Home node" otherwise where does its "Node" exist. Is it inside the Persona? If it is, can I jump inside the persona to hack it? Does a persona exist in its own node? What happens when the persona leaves? Does that make the place unhackable?

Aryxbez · Post by **Aryxbez** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:58 am

Longes wrote: They don't count as magical, but they do have AP 1/2, which drops down the hardened armor by 1/2 as well, which makes it much easier to hurt the spirit.

I thought they hit spirits because its Electric damage, and not physical? Though the Armor Piercing also makes it viable that they'll be hurt by it.

Shrieking Banshee wrote:Right. God I hate it when design combines to create stupidity.

While I agree with you on the possessed baseball bat, I don't see why its bad that Street Sam have way to contribute in "Ghost Buster" encounters. It's that kind of mentality that hates on Street Sams, while all the magic characters getting everything and being awesome.

Rasumichin · Post by **Rasumichin** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:44 am

A halfway optimized street sam, wielding an Ares Alpha with APDS, is perfectly capable of shredding moderate-force spirits in SR4. You're better off using wide bursts, though, as dodge pools for spirits may be quite high.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:31 am

Shrieking Banshee wrote:OK More Matrix Questions because the Matrix is the worst:

It's been a long time but I'll try my best

Subscriptions: Its easy to imagine Tron when thinking matrix however you can be subscribed to many nodes at once. And the idea is that your persona manifests in each node. Thats how you can be engaged in cybercombat in multiple nodes at once like multiple windows. How does this work. How does it look in tron? Are you in one node with a window to another?

I guess it's up to each hacker to set it up the way he wants. It could be multiple windows (with the possibilty to switch between each one), it could be a strange blend of everything into one or anything else...

Starting Node VS Persona: So is my persona inside its "Home node" otherwise where does its "Node" exist. Is it inside the Persona? If it is, can I jump inside the persona to hack it? Does a persona exist in its own node? What happens when the persona leaves? Does that make the place unhackable?

The node represents the user's device. His persona is the avatar of the user himself. So the node exists in the Matrix, as a representation of the device. The user (persona) starts inside his node and can then travel away, but the node will stay there. While it's there, anyone with an account can get in, wihch includes hackers who hacked themselves an account.

Shrieking Banshee · Post by **Shrieking Banshee** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:52 pm

OK Neat.

Next questions regarding Drones and Autosofts

What the hell is the Drones Pilot? Is it a program? Is it an integral part of the machine? Can it be cybercombated and killed like an Agent?
The reason why this is important is I need to know how it all interacts:

If its a program, does it interact against response limits? As well as system limits.

The game says that the PILOT acts like the Drones System. But also gives drones a separate system in the form of a device rating. In This Old Drone, its full of older drones that have lower device ratings but apparently still have higher pilots than their device ratings

Is autosoft a program? Does that mean its also runs against the system limit?

How does this all interact with each other?

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:51 pm

Poorly.*rimshot*

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:51 pm

Shrieking Banshee wrote:Subscriptions: Its easy to imagine Tron when thinking matrix however you can be subscribed to many nodes at once. And the idea is that your persona manifests in each node. Thats how you can be engaged in cybercombat in multiple nodes at once like multiple windows. How does this work. How does it look in tron? Are you in one node with a window to another?

Rules of the 4th edition state there are node where the user is active and other where he is not (thus only using programs rating alone, without the skill rating).

Rules of the 20th Anniversary edition state the user is "aware of what is happening in all nodes" in which the icon is present. Actions taken only apply in a single node, but as far as I understand, you chose which one at will (so you can take two Simple Actions and one Free Action in three different nodes during the same pass with no penalty). So it's not really like there is a main node with additional subscription appearing as extra screen, and more like a wall-of-screens you're watching all at once.
The only situation in which rules acknowledge something as a "main node" is cybercombat, during which a character must declare which node he "focus" on at the beginning of each pass (which will be the onbly one where he can defend).

Shrieking Banshee wrote:Starting Node VS Persona: So is my persona inside its "Home node" otherwise where does its "Node" exist. Is it inside the Persona? If it is, can I jump inside the persona to hack it? Does a persona exist in its own node? What happens when the persona leaves? Does that make the place unhackable?

I think it sometimes helps to remember is that a Matrix user is not moving anywhere. It is just display. The Persona is just a display to show other users (or yourselves if using a 3rd person point of view) where your interface is currently connected and what you are doing. A node is an interface to show users where a device is connected and which functions of the device are available to them.

Persona can only be targeted by cybercombat, while nodes can be targeted by hacking and cybercombat.

So it is possible to hunt down the comlink of a hacker instead of engaging his Persona in cybercombat (or do both at the same time, using multiple subscriptions). However, the way I understand it, displaying a node and providing a Matrix connection to the user are two different functions. So performing the Complex Action "Crash Node" on a comlink is not going to kick its Persona out of the Matrix. "Crash Program" must also be done in the same node the program is running. But Reboot ought to work.

Shrieking Banshee wrote:What the hell is the Drones Pilot? Is it a program? Is it an integral part of the machine? Can it be cybercombated and killed like an Agent?
The reason why this is important is I need to know how it all interacts:

If its a program, does it interact against response limits? As well as system limits.

The game says that the PILOT acts like the Drones System. But also gives drones a separate system in the form of a device rating. In This Old Drone, its full of older drones that have lower device ratings but apparently still have higher pilots than their device ratings

Is autosoft a program? Does that mean its also runs against the system limit?

Equipement list are misleading. The rules ought to differentiate "software" and "programs". Operating System, System Firewall and drones' Pilot are software but not programs.

In vanilla 4th edition, Pilot is an Operating System whose rating is used as a replacement for skills and attributes, but who doesn't provide System and Firewall rating - the Device rating is thus used for tests involving those. So the number of Programs, including Autosofts, should be limited accordingly to the Device rating.

In the 20th Anniversary edition, drones' Pilot is described as a "System program" which suggest the Pilot rating ought to be used as a System Matrix Attribute.
The rules allows a Device to have a Device rating and still have one or more Matrix attributes. They only state the GM should "assume" the Matrix attributes are equal to the Device rating "unless it has been customized or changed in some way." You can boost a drone Signal, Response or Firewall separately. Regarding System, it sure somewhat odd if you stick to the rules wording to consider that the Pilot the drone came out of the factory with would count as a "change" but I consider it makes more sense that way.

Shrieking Banshee · Post by **Shrieking Banshee** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:29 am

OK that makes sense. Lastly is does software count against the maximum programs that can be run before response degradation?

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:34 pm

Common Use Matrix Programs, Hacking Matrix Programs and Agents are software who follow "Programs rules", limiting rating by System and whose number counts for Response degradation.

System, Firewall and Pilot are software who do not get their rating limited by System and do not degrade Response (despite the fact they appear in the equipment list under the Matrix Programs header).

Autosofts, Data Software and Skillsofts are software whose rating is limited by System (or skillwires' rating) but they do not degrade Response (even though Autosoft also appear under the Matrix Programs header).

I infer this from Unwired making the Ergonomic (to prevent Response degradation) option available only to Common and Hacking programs while Optimization (to bypass System limit) is available to Common, Hacking, Autosoft and Simsense programs.

System and Firewall obviously don't count toward Response degradation (Response 1 Device could just not work otherwise, not to mention how System and Response would spiraling each other down even on a better Device). But I'm not totally certain about Firewall not being limited by System.

Shrieking Banshee · Post by **Shrieking Banshee** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:01 am

Alright lastly, how would you recommend making a Technomancer/ Infiltrator (On a human base)?

From what I infer, its better to focus on getting sprites to do stuff for you.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:12 am

Shrieking Banshee wrote:Alright lastly, how would you recommend making a Technomancer/ Infiltrator (On a human base)?

From what I infer, its better to focus on getting sprites to do stuff for you.

You don't. Technomancers can do one thing, and one thing only - Hacking/Rigging. They are too BP-hungry and too reliant on Resonance to do anything else. Hacking focus is done by picking Technoshaman stream (Charisma), Rigging focus is done by picking Infomancer stream (Intuition). Technoshaman can sort of be a back up Face if allowed to use Emotitoy software. The only sprite-based viable hacking tactic involves registering a lot of them and doing aid-another, but allowing this breaks the game in half for hackers with agents.

For details on builds check UmaroIV's archetypes. They are still posted somewhere on dumpshock and official forum.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:18 am

Correction. There is a viable stealth build. It involves being a rigger with Infiltration 4 and stealthing around with Command + Infiltration in a motorcycle with Walker Adaptation and a cyberarm. The whole thing would be roughly troll sized.

Ferret · Post by **Ferret** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:56 pm

Longes wrote:Correction. There is a viable stealth build. It involves being a rigger with Infiltration 4 and stealthing around with Command + Infiltration in a motorcycle with Walker Adaptation and a cyberarm. The whole thing would be roughly troll sized.

Sooooo....a Cyclone pilot, then?

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:06 pm

Longes wrote:Correction. There is a viable stealth build. It involves being a rigger with Infiltration 4 and stealthing around with Command + Infiltration in a motorcycle with Walker Adaptation and a cyberarm. The whole thing would be roughly troll sized.

Wat.

Zaranthan · Post by **Zaranthan** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:42 pm

Stahlseele wrote:
Longes wrote:Correction. There is a viable stealth build. It involves being a rigger with Infiltration 4 and stealthing around with Command + Infiltration in a motorcycle with Walker Adaptation and a cyberarm. The whole thing would be roughly troll sized.
Wat.

Whaddaya mean, "wat"? The hacker/rigger who shows up for the run in an armored mechanical wheelchair is a classic powergaming move.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:45 pm

Not in my group O.o
There is no need EVER for either Decker OR Rigger to ever be physically present.
There's Hover-Drones and Holoprojectors after all.
AR only exacerbates that.

vagrant · Post by **vagrant** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:26 pm

Longes wrote:Correction. There is a viable stealth build. It involves being a rigger with Infiltration 4 and stealthing around with Command + Infiltration in a motorcycle with Walker Adaptation and a cyberarm. The whole thing would be roughly troll sized.

coughs unobstrusively

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:05 pm

Stahlseele wrote:Not in my group O.o
There is no need EVER for either Decker OR Rigger to ever be physically present.
There's Hover-Drones and Holoprojectors after all.
AR only exacerbates that.

Your enemies and facilities never use jamming or anti-wireless wallpaper?

vagrant wrote:coughs unobstrusively

What are you coughing at me for? Who do you think taught rad everything he knows?

Pixels · Post by **Pixels** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:22 pm

Zaranthan wrote:Whaddaya mean, "wat"? The hacker/rigger who shows up for the run in an armored mechanical wheelchair is a classic powergaming move.

It's also a classic of the genre. Snow Crash features a crippled guy in a "wheelchair" that is a heavily modified airport fire engine. He uses drones and robotically enhanced dogs when he needs a more delicate touch.

Zaranthan · Post by **Zaranthan** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:33 pm

Wait, the drones are for sneaking and the exosuit is for going loud? Looks like I'm adding that to my library list.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:47 pm

Zaranthan wrote:Wait, the drones are for sneaking and the exosuit is for going loud? Looks like I'm adding that to my library list.

No no no no. You have a motorbike with legs, arm and a rigger cocoon bolted to it. The motorbikes are about the size of a troll. Shadowrun is in the high tech future with silent electric motors, so the whole thing is pretty quiet. You can sneak in it wherever a troll infiltrator would fit.

Stahlseele · Post by **Stahlseele** » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:03 pm

do NOT think about what he just wrote.
JUST accept and do it. The rules and fluff perfectly support it.
The GM on the other hand might object to it for some reason.

vagrant · Post by **vagrant** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:22 am

As a GM, I can say that I certainly have no problem with someone playing a thematic and genre appropriate rigger in a walkersuit.

phlapjackage · Post by **phlapjackage** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:59 am

Don't forget chameleon coating on the bike for the extra-special infiltration benefit...