The Gaming Den Forum Index The Gaming Den
Welcome to the Gaming Den.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Google
 Search WWW   Search tgdmb.com 
Shadowrun 4e newbie questions
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 40, 41, 42
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> In My Humble Opinion...
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Trill
Journeyman


Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
Synthacardium adds its rating because dodge is a dicepool where you are using the skill when you gymnastic dodge.

?
The description of Synthacardium says:
CRB p.339 wrote:
The synthacar-
dium adds its rating as a dice pool modifier on all Athletics
Tests.

Which are skills in the Athletics Group (Climbing, Flight, Gymnastics, Running, Swimming), not Dodge. And if Gymnastic dodge only adds the skill then Synthacardium makes no difference since it doesn't modify the actual skill rating, only giving a DPM

Or does using Gymnastics make it a Athletics Test?


Last edited by Trill on Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whipstitch
Prince


Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 2960

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It applies because an athletics test is just a test that uses a skill in the athletics skill group umbrella. People try to make tortured arguments that Gym Dodge is a "defense test" instead and synth bonuses shouldn't qualify but that doesn't pass the smell test because "defense test" isn't a defined term in the rules and because it would be the only area where I'm aware of ppl getting fucked out of their bonuses by double secret test subcategories. I wouldn't be surprised if synth dodge stacking was unintended because writers weren't talking and some old ware was grandfathered in but by the raw it should be in.
_________________
bears fall, everyone dies
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iduno
NPC


Joined: 10 Feb 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've always heard gymnastic dodge is great, but it looks like it takes an action, where regular dodge is free. If you're facing someone worth spending an action on, you can get reaction+dodge+dodge, which is probably lower than but still comparable to agility+gymnastics+boosters. Having the flexibility to dodge without using an action seems like a better deal.

What am I missing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Trill
Journeyman


Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Iduno wrote:
reaction+dodge+dodge

That's Full Defense against Melee. And yeah, if you have a good Dodge you might get a better dice pool.
But Full Defense against Ranged is just Reaction+Dodge. And you have the same dice pool with REA 5 Dodge 5 and REA 5 Gymnastics 2 Synthacardium 3
Which costs you far less.

And Dodge is only used for Defense, while Gymnastics also makes you great at general gymnastics(tightrope walking, jumping, keeping balance). So with the same rating you get more if you invest in Gymnastics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Korwin
Duke


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 1899
Location: Linz / Austria

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Iduno wrote:
I've always heard gymnastic dodge is great, but it looks like it takes an action, where regular dodge is free. If you're facing someone worth spending an action on, you can get reaction+dodge+dodge, which is probably lower than but still comparable to agility+gymnastics+boosters. Having the flexibility to dodge without using an action seems like a better deal.

What am I missing.

If I remember correctly:

Meele Full defense:
Rea + Dodge + Dodge
or
Rea + Gym + Melee Skill

Ranged Full defense:
Rea + Dodge
or
Rea + Gym

And you can push Gym more with cyberware.

_________________
Red_Rob wrote:

I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Trill
Journeyman


Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Not exactly:
Melee Full Defense:
REA+Dodge+Dodge or
REA+Dodge+Gym or
REA+Dodge+(Weapon Skill) or
REA+(Weapon Skill)+(Weapon Skill)

Ranged Full Defense:
REA+Dodge or
REA+Gym

Dodge is useful if you are often in Melee ranged fights, since you always add it to your defense pool and have three means to add to it in full defense. But if you are sufficiently capable of using your melee weapon you may use that in Full defense.

And of course in Ranged fights it is in direct competition with Gymnastics which is easier to get, easier to push and more useful outside of fights
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Trill
Journeyman


Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Am I reading it correctly that the more ware you have, the easier a Cyberware scanner can find you?
Is there a way to shut them down/avoid them like you can do with MAD?
And how common should they be?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whipstitch
Prince


Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 2960

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, Dodge's biggest selling point is that it's one stop shopping for second line combatants who want to save money or essence while still having a passive defense pool in case some random ganger tries shanking them. Basically, people don't take Dodge because it's better than a combo of Gymnastics, Unarmed and Synthacardium, they take Dodge because they're riggers or mages and want to stay under specific point caps.
_________________
bears fall, everyone dies


Last edited by Whipstitch on Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iduno
NPC


Joined: 10 Feb 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Trill wrote:
Am I reading it correctly that the more ware you have, the easier a Cyberware scanner can find you?
Is there a way to shut them down/avoid them like you can do with MAD?
And how common should they be?


Yes, more cyberware causes the scanner to be more likely to find you.

I guess you would install one everywhere that you want an alarm to go off for every 4th person so you can check why they have cyberware and what type it is, and are okay with some false positives because it's only one layer in the security and people expect to wait anyway (airports or Denver checkpoints where security is looking for combat cyberware), or places where you for some reason want only non-cybered people to enter (I cannot think of an example). If you consider the effect on the world: long lines at the security check-point because cyberware is supposed to be common in the world, there are not a lot of places where it would be reasonable to implement. Can you imagine the corps wanting people to waste the first hour of work waiting in line for security to determine if they installed new cybereyes?

Also, if you're a GM or JH that hates non-mages, you'd put them everywhere. Because you are terrible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iduno
NPC


Joined: 10 Feb 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I noticed in Augmentation that Cybermancy is described as blood magic, but requires metamagics for Invoking (greatform spirits) and Corruption (toxic spirits).

Is it a blood magic variant of Corruption, some weird mistake, or am I missing something?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stahlseele
King


Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 5008
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The simplest explanation would be that the Fluff and the Crunch just do not match up again.
_________________
Welcome, to IronHell.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 27146

PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Iduno wrote:
I noticed in Augmentation that Cybermancy is described as blood magic, but requires metamagics for Invoking (greatform spirits) and Corruption (toxic spirits).

Is it a blood magic variant of Corruption, some weird mistake, or am I missing something?


This is an example of "Frank is always right." The editor put in those metamagic choices because he thought they sounded cool. I said "Hey, that is not in fact how Corruption works" and was overruled because he thought that it sounded cool. There is literally zero Shadowrun magic theory as to why or how Corruption is involved.

Of course, I was against Corruption from the beginning, because it doesn't have consistent mechanics. But what are you gonna do?

-Frank
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iduno
NPC


Joined: 10 Feb 2017
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What am I gonna do? Probably just pretend "corruption" in that section is a very bad misspelling of "sacrifice," because at least that makes sense and takes no effort on my part.

Invoking doesn't work the way it needs to for cybermancy either, but it involves spirits, so whatever. Some sort of essence trap would be better, but I don't think that's a thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stahlseele
King


Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 5008
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Binding?
Technically you kill somebody by overloading them with cyberware.
And before their Essence can leave the burned out husk you made it,
you trap it and bind it into its own old rotting corpse.
_________________
Welcome, to IronHell.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by Stahlseele on Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whipstitch
Prince


Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 2960

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I could get behind cybermancy requiring Doctor Blight but yeah, it's pretty weird how often they manage to trip over details and make things unnecessarily complicated. I'd be cool with making cyberzombies by performing blood sacrifices in a toxic domain but instead they did dumb things.

Plus, it always kinda bugged me that taint and corruption exist as separate metamagics when I feel like it's something you should just be able to do with banishing or geomancy or whatever if you happen to be a toxic mage. Thematically Toxic magic is basically supposed to be falling to the dark side but with Captain Planet villains instead of Sith lords. So it's weird to me that an Initiated magician who goes toxic arguably needs to go to Evil Wizard School for a while before they can do the bad versions of shit they already know.
_________________
bears fall, everyone dies


Last edited by Whipstitch on Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Coldstone
NPC


Joined: 10 Nov 2017
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Salutations all. Fan of Shadowrun (in concept), and someone who has been scouring on how to fix 4e matrix forever. >.<

In an amusing (if slightly embarrassing) twist, in my efforts to try and clean up the matrix and organize it, I went looking up various puzzles I kept finding to look for answers. I had actually run across EoTM once before... but including the bits on brainhacking, at first I thought it was a bad idea and moved onward. later, I found other references going back to suggest it, as well as Frank's original role with SR to begin with, and when I found it again, I realized I had skipped over something quite handy - Frank!

So, I have reviewed EoTM much more thoroughly, along with reading many things Frank has said about SR stuff in general. It's helped me to work on some cleanup for future games I might deal with in the future, but there are a few things with EoTM I'm having struggles with.

Keep in mind I have been reading/skimming this stuff for like 3 days straight now looking for nuggets of information, including the last compiled pdf of it (4.3 I believe). It is possible I missed answers to some of these, and in other cases, it may be it's not actually mentioned, but assumed since EoTm is adapted partly off the concept of how magic works. My apologies if I bring up things that have in fact been answered before.

1) Hack-on-the-Fly and Threading: There is a couple ways to read this feature, so the main question is: are all hack/threadings considered 'emulated, one time use' moments, or is that in reference to programs made from scratch? does the -2 penalty for use apply in both instances, or only to the one built entirely from scratch?

1.b) If threading/hacking on an existing program is not one use, how is it sustained? Counts against number of sustainable actions versus system like some program actions? I'm guessing it's most the one time version since otherwise a person could basically 'augment' a bunch of programs and hold them like that, which seems a bit too cheesy.

2) Program Rating: Programs are capped at the system(?) rating, at least when it comes to hack on the fly and threading. Does it hard cap the general program too, or can you put a high quality program on a machine with a low system? Does this mean the 'Resonance' rating on complex forms gets pushed down to match logic (system) for technomancers if so? (note: I just reread the bit where it mentions limitations under Response, when it doesn't mention it under system. Having seen that, I recall a post pointing this out, but as that would take digging to find -again- I'll just ask what it is here while I check notes later. ^^; )
EDIT: So, I found a reply by Lokathor to this question stating that system is the overall cap of the program rating, but response caps how high you can augment a program in general. If that is the case...well, confirmation is always handy, but otherwise that counts as an answer to this part.

2.b) Technomancer response is equal to intuition and system to logic. whichever version controls the rating level, since CF are defaulted to a rating matching their resonance (regardless of whether it lowers the cap to match the stat or not), if the number is otherwise the same or higher than that stat, you can't actually thread it anyways, right? The main point of threading is basically to pull together a program you don't have learned yet, right?

Mini edit: Also, if there is possible example sources of things of the system in use that is linkable or such, that would be handy as well. Seeing the system 'in action' would help a bit in following it all. >.<


Last edited by Coldstone on Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:05 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Trill
Journeyman


Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 105

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm pretty sure this is more fitting for the EotM thread than the general SR4 thread
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Coldstone
NPC


Joined: 10 Nov 2017
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hmm, I suppose so. I did it here cause this seemed more active at the time, and technically it was SR4 too, but yeah, given what it's about that does make more sense. I'm gonna blame mass reading for not thinking that through. Thank ye. ^^;

After finally easing up a bit on reading, I think things are settling more in head, so I may re-ask them in a different light over there late.


Last edited by Coldstone on Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zaranthan
Knight


Joined: 29 May 2012
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

We actually like necro'd threads around here. Keeps the old conversation handy when discussing new ideas.
_________________
Koumei wrote:
...is the dead guy posthumously at fault for his own death and, due to the felony murder law, his own murderer?

hyzmarca wrote:
A palace made out of poop is much more impressive than one made out of gold. Stinkier, but more impressive. One is an ostentatious display of wealth. The other is a miraculous engineering feat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stahlseele
King


Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 5008
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

And it looks a bit more tidy to have a dozend gargantuan threads instead of hundreds of less than one page Question:Anser threads.
Even if it is exceedingly rare around these parts that a threat will stay at that.
_________________
Welcome, to IronHell.
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gaming Den Forum Index -> In My Humble Opinion... All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 40, 41, 42
Page 42 of 42

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group