melee (and rangers) in 4e

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:18 pm

I had tried to not start another PLZ HELP build thread and so PM'd Lago a question on melee rangers, but he thought it would be best to open it up to a wider discussion, so...

Let's talk about melee rangers. Playing a bugbear Brutal Scoundrel in another game has given me a taste of wondrous stabbity damage - a great Heroic Encounter power will cause 2W+STR+DEX+2d6+STR, or roughly 30 points if I hit on a sneak attack. For lvl 5 or so, that seems pretty good. But that's just me screwing around with a bugbear rogue - what can the more-familiar experts show?

I had generally been operating under the assumption that a Longtooth, +STR +WIS melee ranger was tops for damage output and that was the end of that. However... I'm completely in the dark. I'm only now starting to play with 4e and Lago's suggestion to open up the discussion to a thread seemed a good idea.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:36 pm

Really early in the game Brutal Scoundrel rogues do the most damage, but they start to get outclassed after awhile--this is a certainty by paragon tier.

But anyway, say we have said 8th level BS rogue with a +2 Subtle Dagger compared against a bugbear melee ranger who uses one regular +2 and a +2 Subtle Bastard swords. Both have Iron Armbands of power and both blow an encounter (BS rogue uses the aforementioned move, ranger uses minor-action attack + Twin Strike)

BS rogue: 1.05 (rogue weapon talent) * [ 2d6 (weapon) + 10 (str) + 2 (enh) + 5 (dex) + 2d6 (SA) + 1 (w.focus) + 2 subtle + 2 (item)] = 37.7

Or if the rogue used low-slash + one of their other At-Wills, they would do an extra 2 enh + 2 item + 1 WF + 2 subtle damage, for a total of 44.7.

Melee Ranger: [3d12 (weapon) + 5 (STR) + 1d6 (HQ) + 6 (enh) + 3 (WF) + 4 (subtle) + 6 (item)] = 47

The ranger will continue to pull away from the rogue as time goes on and more damage bonuses accumulate. By level 7 the ranger will have 3 off-action encounter attack powers (Off-Hand Strike, Ruffling Sting, Disruptive Strike). Multiplication rocks, dude.

I made a thread detailing what I think is the best melee character.

If you want to talk about building rangers in general I suggest starting a new thread altogether, but keep in mind these things:

After around level 11 or so, minor-action encounter attack powers outdamage the other kinds of powers. You may want to pick up another power now and again such as Armor Splinter, but that's the general idea.

If you want to go STR/WIS then you NEED to start with a 13 in constitution unless you're doing some weird Hybrid Classing thing. Chainmail armor and all. Unfortunately, doing things this way is very strict for your stats and you will not be able to afford a weapon mastery in Heavy Blades--which are uniformly the best weapon unless you're doing something crazy. STR/WIS rangers, if you're using Morninglord Light Cheese, can get a huge spike in damage. I don't know if I can recommend it or not because while it's the most damaging variant it relies on a class feature and a couple of items that will probably be errata'd soon.

STR/INT rangers can take advantage of the Battle Engineer PP, though there's not really as much point as there used to be since the real benefit of that PP is to slap keywords onto your powers. Which makes it beastly for Wizards, not so much for people who don't get much benefit out of a type. If you are going to go Battle Engineer you want the Subtle enhancement.

STR/DEX rangers I believe are uniformly the best choice for people who want minimal cheese. You want to go Stormwarden; not so much for the autodamage (though it is good) as much as you want it for the level 12 utility power Throw Caution to the Wind. It's an always-on +2 to attack. Unless you're abusing the hell out of a stance power then you want that. The great thing about STR/DEX rangers is that since they can afford Light Blade Mastery in epic they can go Weapon Proficiency: Rapier + Nimble Blade. +1 to attack is definitely worth losing 1-4 damage.

Scimitar Dance was good at the beginning of the game but now it's a trap option. Bastard Sword users now have a +3 to +4 to attack over people using that style, making it worthless, Seriously, a well-built ranger can have up to +7 to hit over rangers made using just PHB material.

The loss of Bloodclaw/Reckless does hurt, especially in heroic tier, but not as much as you think it would. You now want to use Frostcheese + Siberys Shards. lordduskblade's calculations, while technically correct, is a bit of cheese I don't think any DM would allow. He abuses the wording on those weapons to allow the damage boosting powers on both so the damage reflects both Reckless AND Bloodclaw weapons.

One feat chain that people uniformly overlook is the Prime Punisher / Prime Quarry / Called Shot chain. If you have the Character Builder, GET THOSE NOW. You get +2/+5 damage as long as you fight by yourself.

Some other things to keep in mind:

If you want your WIS. bonus to damage NOW instead of at level 16, the Son of Mercy is right up your ally. Unfortunately, you need to multiclass into a defender class as a ranger for a prerequisite AND its ability activates on a mark. So this means that you're going to have to go with Student of Battle and also snag a marking utility power from to use Lawbreaker's Doom.

If you do want to go Wisdom, however, and you're in it for the long haul you are going to be a STR/CON or a STR/WIS race (which means goliath, warforged, orc, minotaur, or longtooth shifter) and start off with these stats: 18 STR, 15 CON, 16 WIS, 11 DEX, 10 INT, 8 CHA. If you're planning on starting at or in Epic you can also be a Genasi and have Shocking Flame / Extra Manifestation / Double Manifestation for a +8 bonus to damage.

As a melee ranger you're not going to be getting much use out of Salves of Power until you have a multiclass power you enjoy. Trading healing surges for a burst of damage (ex. Jaws of the Wolf gives you about 20 extra damage over your At-Will) is not a good idea.

Epic Destinies, you have some choice:

Eternal Defender: Gives you a very slight damage boost over Demigod, until level 30 when you don't care any more. The real benefit to this ED is being able to dual-wield glaives at level 24, which when combined with Heavy Blade Opportunity, Polearm Gamble, and Two-Weapon Flurry will let you get four attacks against an enemy that comes close to you.

Deadly Trickster: Only an option for STR/DEX rangers. The entry-level ability sucks but the 24th and 26th level bennies are just awesome. Epic Trick is just seriously that good.

Punisher of the Gods: Even after errata it's still good. Not as good as the other options but I won't stop you from going into this.

Eternal Seeker: Rangers have the best encounter attack powers for their 'role' (except for Hurricane of Blades at level 27, which you want) and have the best dailies, too, so there's not a lot of point in going here. The real benefit is the power which gives you an extra standard action when you blow an AP. If you have Violet Solitaires in your pocket by then--and you SHOULD--it's a ginormous spike in damage. Two extra standard actions in an encounter? Yes, please!

Demigod: Boring but still generally the best. The level 24 ability sucks but the level 21 and 26 powers are great. Isn't it just so fucking sad that +2 to two stats is one of the best abilities ever published? I hate 4E so much right now.

shau · Post by **shau** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:17 am

I have never been that much of a fan of the melee ranger. Partially because I like archer ranger, but mostly because the ranger's defenses really blow.

A STR/WIS melee ranger is pretty much a dead man walking. Your hp is under 30 and your surges are at like six or seven so the whole team has to stop when you run out, which is like the second goddamn battle if you don't have a paladin or Divine Power cleric on team. Especially if you take those bloodclaw or reckless weapons like everyone told you to before they were nerfed.

STR/DEX rangers are kinda decent. You take the bugbear race for the mods, encounter power and that 4e sweet oversized weapon thing. You start the game with AC 18 (assuming defensive weapon) which is like moderate good. Unfortunately, you still have seven surges (7 hp a piece) and 29 hp. And you still don't get your second stat.

Lago probably has the right idea with going with STR/CON/WIS and ignoring your whole light armor mobility flavor and going with heavy armor. Still, 16 AC is pretty ass for a frontliner even if it is only first level. Especially a frontliner who is clearly doing the most damage and most in the spotlight. 8 surges for 8 hp will also be hard pressed to cover four encounters of people trying to smear you. Taking longtooth shifter for their heal self power will probably be necessary just to survive.

A new option comes from Primal Power. Apparently, the feat hide specialization grants your con to AC. If you go straight out STR/CON you will have 35 hp and 10 surges for 8. You get to celebrate pulling 4 ac out of one feat, making it pretty much the best feat ever. But your non AC defenses are in the floor.

I'm going to argue for the Longtooth shifter again. That encounter power can bring you up from one to half hp. STR and WIS are good for you as well. Enjoy being a furry.

Also, try to work with your defender. He can only really defend you against one threat. Try to at least position yourself at place where he will get an opportunity attack off when the enemy inevitable disengages from him and gangbangs you.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:38 am

shau wrote:I have never been that much of a fan of the melee ranger. Partially because I like archer ranger, but mostly because the ranger's defenses really blow.

All of the melee strikers except for the Rageblood/Tempest Barbarian blow for defenses. The Avenger used to be good but because they got nerfed down to cloth armor they're nothing special.

Like everything in 4E if you want to get a melee ranger then you need at least three other people on the frontline. Don't even think about being a melee ranger unless you're at level 11+ or you have those people backing you up.

If you're going STR/WIS then you NEED to spend your first two feats on chainmail and scalemail proficiency. That way you can get a 19 AC by level 2. You probably also need a 15 (or greater) in constitution, which you want anyway for the long haul for Weapon Mastery: Axe.

Stupid fucking 4th Edition and it's complete failure for role protection.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:06 am

Err, wouldn't forcing strikers to be squishy be SUCCESSFUL role protection?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:09 am

Orion wrote: Err, wouldn't forcing strikers to be squishy be SUCCESSFUL role protection?

Melee and ranged don't interact too well; this determines whether or not your party will be successful even more than the role system.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:15 pm

Hm. Some guidance, please - what's the advantage of Shifter over, say, Orc?

The way I'm conceptualizing it the question is which stat array is most optimal, given Hide Specialization replacing Armor Proficiencies (chainmail) and (scale):

Code: Select all

     orc1  orc2  orc3  shifter
STR   18    18    18    18
CON   15    16    18    13
DEX   14    13    11    14
INT   10    10    10    10
WIS   14    14    13    16
CHA    8     8     8     8

Most of the powers are keyed off of STR or DEX, right? Or is this a misconception? WIS is being pumped solely for Pit Fighter?

If you're going STR/CON, then why not Hammer Rhythm? Why Axes?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:41 pm

There's little reason to play as an orc after the first few levels. Healing surge powers are a fool's game after a certain point since you only want to be healed by characters who gain a bonus to healing powers. The regeneration and damage bonus will always be useful, however. If you want to be STR/CON go Goliath or Warforged instead.

I don't actually recommend going STR/CON for rangers in the long run; the only advantage comes at low levels when you have a long workday and that's just for the healing surges. It starts to hurt you after you get enough durability and you also have the problem of overlapping defenses (meaning you will only have a decent AC and fortitude). If your game is going to start and end at low level it's fine.

I do expect Hide Armor Specialization to receive a huge nerf pretty soon, as it makes Battlerager Fighters and Rageblood Barbarians (especially) by far and away the toughest characters. But who knows anymore. Just don't rely on it too much. Frankly, as a Ranger you could just blow the two feats that you were going to spend for barbarian multiclassing and hide armor expertise on chainmail and scalemail proficiency and then put your secondary score in dexterity or wisdom--that way you'd have better defenses and skills/initiative.

Wisdom is actually the secondary stat for rangers. No STR-ranger power uses dexterity as a secondary.

Because Bludgeon Mastery requires a 19 in CON rather than a 17 unless you're going STR/CON there's no way you're going to be able to afford it in epic. So if you see your game going that far forget about Hammers.

Again, optimal stats for Pit-Fighter Rangers: a STR/CON or STR/WIS race with an 18 in strength, a 16 in wisdom, a 15 in constitution, 11 in dexterity, and the rest whatever.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:50 pm

That said, if you want spike damage go Pit Fighter. If you want steady, reliable damage go Stormwarden. The 12th level stance is great. The autodamage is also good, but with damage inflation in 4E it's not as good as it used to be. The 11th level encounter power for that class sucks (but you can use Reserve Manuever to use something else) but everything else about that PP is gold.

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:10 am

Literally every single 4e game I've played has had a melee ranger in it. It seems a pretty popular build for my group.

Wisdom is definitely better for a melee ranger than dex, and it has nothing to do with Pit Fighter. All of your riders are wisdom based (dexterity is only for archer rangers), and there is some crazy shit there like Disruptive Strike. In addition, Shifter's also have what I feel is a better power. Getting +2 damage every attack once you're bloodied can be nasty.

And while Berserker's Fury is a really damn good multiclass feat, I don't see pumping con and getting Hide Armor Expertise to be worth it. You'll be spending a feat to be grabbing a few more HP and a surge or two, but also lowering your other defenses, and possibly tanking your useful ranger powers. I think you're better off just sticking to a good dexterity score. Overall, I think boosting abilities like Disruptive Strike is more important than a high AC. You just need to be careful with positioning, knowing that you're squishy.

On the other hand, if you're like one of two meleers, I'd suggest just going for another class rather than trying to turn the ranger into a tank. Tempest fighters and barbarians exist for a reason, after all.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:43 am

Well, after writing up the 1st level two-blade ranger, I found that he was seemed substantially less dangerous than the 1st level 20-STR Tempest Fighter.

I mean, 1d20+10 to hit, 1d6+7 damage with Weapon Expertise (light blades) and 20 STR and all the Tempest abilities, versus 1d20+7 to hit (18 STR and a sword) and 1d8+4 damage per strike.

Am I missing something? It only gets good later?

DragonChild · Post by **DragonChild** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:08 pm

You're forgetting the ranger's Quarry, which adds another d6. Not a lot, but, yeah.

But yes. Tempest fighters have a definite advantage at lower levels, but rangers quickly pick up the advantage at higher levels. By level 11, the ranger should be dealing more damage hands-down due to getting more attacks. I don't really know what the break point is. If I had to guess, I'd say likely level 6 or so, although it's highly magical item dependent.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:38 pm

Dual Strike got an errata so Tempest Fighters are no longer worth playing for single-target damage. If you want to play a fighter and want to do single-target damage then go Battlerager.

shau · Post by **shau** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:28 pm

The reason to take Shifter over orcs is there ability to heal without using surges. Surge management can be a huge problem for you if you have to go through 4 encounters a day. It takes like 4 surges to bring you to full from almost dead and its is pretty easy for you to become almost dead. If you have a cleric doing the healing, t is not that much of a problem because they have some good modifiers added to each of your surges so that it only take one or two to get you back to full. If you have a warlord doing the healing there is a good chance they can only do surge plus 1d6, so that means you need three or four to get back to full.

By contrast, a longtooth shifter can just pop their encounter power, even out of battle, and heal up to just above their bloody value. That means it is just one or two healing surges until they are back to full.

Again, it only really matters if you have DM who is anal about the encounters a day rule (I did) and is willing to dock treasure/XP when you have to stop for healing surges (this sucks) or attack you while you sleep to make up for it. (this is worse.)

mean_liar wrote:Well, after writing up the 1st level two-blade ranger, I found that he was seemed substantially less dangerous than the 1st level 20-STR Tempest Fighter.

I mean, 1d20+10 to hit, 1d6+7 damage with Weapon Expertise (light blades) and 20 STR and all the Tempest abilities, versus 1d20+7 to hit (18 STR and a sword) and 1d8+4 damage per strike.

Am I missing something? It only gets good later?

I am not completely sure, but it looks like your doing it wrong. You don't get your modifier added to your damage with your at wills at least. So 2 times (1d6+2)or 2*(1d8) plus 1d6. Also, I think your ranger is missing his prime shot bonus. As Lago pointed out, the you have to tempest fighter has to attack two enemies because you are somehow coordinated enough to stab two enemies at once but you can't stab the same one twice.

EDIT: Why go Battlerager for single target damage? Wouldn't the weapon talents be better than the plus 2 damage?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:35 pm

shau wrote: EDIT: Why go Battlerager for single target damage? Wouldn't the weapon talents be better than the plus 2 damage?

You're using Brash Strike, too, for the +CON damage and then the first thing you do when you get to paragon tier is pick up that stupid-ass feat that negates the attack bonus for CA. So by paragon you do like +8 damage. Then again, it's not like a weapon talent fighter couldn't just go STR/CON, too...

But anyway, at low levels the damage bonus adds slightly more to damage than the attack bonus except for certain powers like Lasting Threat. The turnaround point comes at around level six or so when you've accumulated enough damage bonuses so that the attack bonus is worth more.

shau · Post by **shau** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:22 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote: Then again, it's not like a weapon talent fighter couldn't just go STR/CON, too...

I always ago STR/CON, although I never seem to play anything that is not a cleric anymore. At low levels, you need a good at will to get by, especially if the DM wants to play the avoid the defender game, and for fighters brash strike is the only game in town. Even if you have low con you end up taking it, but then you have to feel silly every time you use it. The only other decent at wills you have are Tide of Iron with Polearm Momentum and extra slide power or Knockdown assault with extra slide power. Those kinda control the enemy, but they both knock them out of your Combat Superiority range so its usually better to go BS.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:48 pm

shau wrote:
mean_liar wrote:Well, after writing up the 1st level two-blade ranger, I found that he was seemed substantially less dangerous than the 1st level 20-STR Tempest Fighter.

I mean, 1d20+10 to hit, 1d6+7 damage with Weapon Expertise (light blades) and 20 STR and all the Tempest abilities, versus 1d20+7 to hit (18 STR and a sword) and 1d8+4 damage per strike.

Am I missing something? It only gets good later?
I am not completely sure, but it looks like your doing it wrong. You don't get your modifier added to your damage with your at wills at least.

Nah, the Tempest was post-errata so he actually doesn't have the two-blade attack - that's:

Tempest: 1 attack @ +10 to hit, d6+7 damage (from 20 STR, +2 damage from the class feature, using a single-target attack)

Ranger: 2 attacks @ +7, d8+d6/d8 damage

Against an AC 18 opponent, the Tempest averages 6.825 DPR, the Ranger averages 6.25. Not very awe-inspiring.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:04 pm

That's because, mean-liar:

1) You didn't hook the Ranger up with a Bastard Sword/Triple-Headed Flail/Waraxe, which all Rangers get as their first or second-level feat.

2) You have absolutely no damage bonuses for the ranger, when they
will/should be getting an enhancement bonus to damage really shortly.

3) If you're giving the Tempest fighter a 20 in strength then that means that the Ranger should be a half-orc STR/DEX ranger, which means a 20 in strength and a 16 in dexterity.

3) You disregarded HQ.

So by level 2, here's a more accurate roll:

TF: WP: Double-Axe, and WF: Double-Axe uses Brash Strike. Has a +1 double-axe, uses Brash Strike exclusively with off-hand end. Has a 16 CON from being a Warforged.
Ranger: WP: Bastard Sword and Weapon Focus. Has two +1 bastard swords.

Against an AC 16 opponent (average AC for a monster of any level is 14 + level, so 16)

TF: (5 STR + 1 BLB + 1 ENH + 2 WP + 1 TT + 2 Brash Strike) = +12 @ 1d10 + 5 (STR) + 1 (WF) + 1 (ENH) + 2 (TT) + 3 (BS) = 1d10+12

Or 80% x 17.5 = 14 for 2nd-level Tempest Fighter

MR: (5 STR + 1 BLB + 1 ENH + 3 WP) = +10 @ 1d6 + 2 x 1d10 + 1 + 1

Or (.9375) x 3.5 + (.75) x 7.5 + (.75) x 7.5 = 3.281 + 5.625 = 14.531 for 2nd-level Melee Ranger.

Of course, the gap is going to be getting larger and larger as time goes on. By level 4, when both of these bad boys are going to be owning Frost weapons with Siberys Shards attached to them, the ranger is going to pull further ahead. And by level 8, when the ranger has two +2 weapons, Iron Armbands of Power, and Lethal Hunter/TWF (which the tempest fighter can't use for their Brash Strike trick) the Tempest fighter falls further and further behind.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:27 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:That's because, mean-liar:

1) You didn't hook the Ranger up with a Bastard Sword/Triple-Headed Flail/Waraxe, which all Rangers get as their first or second-level feat.

It'll have to be 2nd level, as without chainmail proficiency as a STR/CON/WIS priority he's got an AC of 13.

3) If you're giving the Tempest fighter a 20 in strength then that means that the Ranger should be a half-orc STR/DEX ranger, which means a 20 in strength and a 16 in dexterity.

That's because a Fighter can pump STR/CON to get the 20 STR - I don't think the Ranger has that latitude, correct?

3) You disregarded HQ.

Nah, that's in the d8+d6.

That does bring up the limitation of number of Heroic feats:

two weapon fighting
weapon expertise
weapon proficiency
armor proficiency (chainmail)
...and...
weapon focus?
armor proficiency (scale)?

...and you're done?

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:34 pm

If you're doing just low levels then the STR/DEX ranger is the best.

The STR/WIS ranger is weaker for the first few levels precisely because they have to burn a feat or to just to catch up with the STR/DEX ranger. The payoff comes when, as you've correctly noted, the power of feats levels off late in heroic tier so the STR/DEX ranger's feat advantage tapers off.

But since you were comparing a 1st-level tempest fighter to a first-level ranger you need to look at the STR/DEX variant (which will have an equal AC to the STR/CON chainmail tempest fighter). Because at any point past the first few levels any kind of ranger will completely leave the tempest fighter in the dust.

mean_liar · Post by **mean_liar** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:49 pm

The game is bound for low-levels, but I hate building anything that doesn't optimize for the long-term, despite the fact that its UNoptimized for it's actual use. I have no idea where this started in me but it's stuck and that's about that.

Thanks for the advice - it's a big help. Once I get off the ground I think the only question is what powers to take, and that's mostly a function of combing through all the Fighter powers (since Pit Fighter seems the way to go) to choose how many times you're going to take a multiclass feat.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:00 pm

Thanks for the advice - it's a big help. Once I get off the ground I think the only question is what powers to take, and that's mostly a function of combing through all the Fighter powers (since Pit Fighter seems the way to go) to choose how many times you're going to take a multiclass feat.

There's no need as a ranger to snag any powers from the Fighter's list, with the exception of Trip-Up (L7, MP) at level 29. Rain of Blows got nerfed into uselessness for anyone to snag and any of your minor-action encounter powers will do more damage.

By level 7 as a ranger, you can complete the Martial Power trifecta of encounter powers: Off-Hand Strike (L1, MP), Disruptive Strike (L3, PHB), and Ruffling Sting (L7, MP). This will massively boost your ability to take out enemies, especially if you have the Battle Awareness feat (which requires a STR 13/WIS 13, alas).

I really hope you like saying 'I Twin Strike it!' because you will be doing that a hell-of-a-lot

Personally, I think STR/DEX is the strongest variant right now only because Stormwarden is so beastly with the damage inflation right now. If you want something that starts and finishes off strong at low level, here is what your advancement should look like:

Bugbear or Half-Orc Ranger (Bugbear if your DM will let you)
If your DM will let you, for your background pick Born under a Bad Sign (Scales of War Adventure Path Background). It'll let you use strength instead of constitution for your hit points. If not, go for a background that lets you pick up Stealth and Thievery for ranger skills.
Stats: STR: 18 DEX: 18 WIS: 13 CON: 11 INT: 10 CHA: 8
Feats:
1: WP: Bastard Sword, Toughness (from your Ranger Talent)
2: WF: Heavy Blades
4: WE: Heavy Blades
6: Battle Awareness
8: TWF
10: Two-Weapon Defense
11: Prime Punisher --> Retrain Two-Weapon Defense to Called Shot
12: Prime Quarry (Retrain TWF to Lasting Frost)
13: Retrain Prime Quarry to Wintertouched
14: WE: Light Blades, Retrain WP: Bastard Sword to WP: Rapier
15: Retrain WF: Heavy Blades to WF: Light Blades
16: Nimble Blade, retrain WE: Heavy Blades to Prime Quarry

Magic Items: +3 Vanilla Hide Armor, +3 Vanilla neck slot item, +3 Frost Rapier, +3 Subtle Rapier, Iron Armbands of Power (paragon Tier), Gloves of Ice (paragon), Siberys Shard of Lasting Cold (paragon), Boots of Eagerness

Attack Bonus:

8 (BLB) + 3 (WP) + 2 (CA from Wintertouched) + 1 (Nimble Blade) + 6 (STR) + 3 (enh) + 2 (Throw Caution to the Wind) + 2 (Weapon Expertise) + 1 (Prime Punisher) + 1 (Prime Quarry)= +29 versus average AC of this level of 30.

Damage Bonus on Twin Strike
Main-Hand: 1d8 (base) + 3 (enh) + 3 (subtle) + 5 (called shot) + 5 (lasting frost) + 3 (siberys shard) + 2 (gloves of ice) + 2 (weapon focus) + 4 (Iron Armbands of Power) = 1d8 + 27 = 31.5
Off-Hand:
Main-Hand: 1d8 (base) + 3 (enh) + 3 (subtle) + 5 (called shot) + 5 (lasting frost) + 3 (siberys shard) + 2 (gloves of ice) + 2 (weapon focus) + 4 (Iron Armbands of Power) = 1d8 + 27 = 31.5
Off-Action Power: Main-Hand: 1d8 (base) + 6 (STR) + 3 (enh) + 3 (subtle) + 5 (called shot) + 5 (lasting frost) + 3 (siberys shard) + 2 (gloves of ice) + 2 (weapon focus) + 4 (Iron Armbands of Power) = 1d8 + 27 = 37.5

Critical Hit Damage for Twin Strike: 8 + 27 + 3d6 = 45.5
Critical Hit Damage for Off-Action Power: 8 + 33 + 3d6 = 51.5

Average damage for Twin Strike + Off Action Power = (.90)(31.5) [main-hand regular hit] + (.90)(31.5) [off-hand regular hit] + (.05)(45.5) [main-hand critical hit] + (.05)(45.5) [off-hand critical hit] + (.90)(37.5) [Off-Action Power Regular Hit] + (.05)(51.5) [Off-Action Power Critical Hit] + (1.00)(7) [Hunter's Quarry] + (12) [Dexterity from SW class features] = 28.35 + 28.35 + 2.275 + 2.275 + 33.75 + 2.575 + 7 + 12 = 116.575 DPR

Considering that this character does this without dipping into their grab bag of daily powers or AP and can sustain this ass-whipping for four rounds in a row--because they have Battle Awareness and three off-action encounter powers; you can have five if you blow a feat on Reserve Maneuver. Note that the attack you get from Battle Awareness will lose two points of attack and five points of damage because you can't apply your Prime Punisher/Called Shot bonuses.

For the damage, there are a couple of quirks in the rules which allow you apply your Subtle and Frost bonuses to both attacks despite having only one of each sword. The first one is that if you wield a weapon that has a Property line the properties apply to any attack, even the one that doesn't hold the power. The second one is that the Frost rapier applies its effect to a power, not a particular attack in the power. Thus when you use your off-hand rapier for your Twin Strike power the power gains the Cold keyword--which is when your Gloves of Ice/Siberys Shard/Lasting Frost bonuses kick in.

If your DM doesn't agree to that interpretation despite it being in the damn FAQ, then just grab a second Frost weapon. It'll cause your damage to drop by about 9 points. Which sucks, but what are you gonna do?

The character's tactics change by level 11; instead of flanking with another party member they single out enemies and lay waste to them. At level 14, they fight like this for the rest of their life unless they want to wheedle an extra attack out of Battle Awareness.

Prime Punisher: Lets you apply your Prime Shot bonuses in melee as long as there are no allies adjacent to your target.
Called Shot: Gives you a +5 damage bonus when you apply your prime Shot Bonus.
Prime Quarry: Gives you a +1 bonus to attack rolls when the target of your attack is also your quarry.

And that is what your character should look like forever. Stormwardens have a higher DPR and a higher AC, but STR/WIS rangers have a higher 'nova' damage due to Extra Damage Action and the fact that they get to apply their STR/WIS for however many attacks they get--which can be up to seven attacks in a round. Stormwardens only apply it twice. But they have a higher DPR due to Nimble Blade and Throw Caution to the Wind.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:40 am

head, the cloth covering his forehead down to his eyebrows.

So. Here's what to expect for your levels.

Level 1: You pick up Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword, which is what you're going to be using for a long time. Unless you're a Bugbear, you're going to feel a little short in the pants compared to the Brutal Scoundrel Rogue. Don't worry, it won't last forever. You use Off-Hand Strike (MP 1) and then say 'I Twin Strike it!!!' five or six times in a row until you win the battle. Your daily power is either Sudden Strike or Jaws of the Wolf. I prefer Jaws of the Wolf. Then you move onto the next level.

Level 2: Upgrade your armor to a +1 Vanilla Hide. Save some of the money left over, though. You also pick up Unbalancing Parry or Fox Shift this level and gain a much-needed +1 to your damage.

Level 3: Buy a +1 Frost Bastard Sword. You pick up Disruptive Strike (PHB 3) this level over Ruffling Sting (MP 3) so it won't get in the way of your Hunter's Quarry and so you can use it after a charge.

Level 4: Put both of your stat gains into STR and DEX. Buy a second +1 Frost Bastard Sword and a Siberys Shard of Lasting cold. You also get the Weapon Expertise: Heavy Blades Feat here.

Level 5: Even though Frenzied Skirmish does less damage than Jaws of the Wolf, it has a killer rider effect and throws in a move to boot. You pick this up. If your DM doesn't buy into the whole properties thing because they're a rule-ignoring dickface, you pick up another Siberys Shard here, too. Save up all of your money, you'll need it pretty soon.

Level 6: You grab the much-coveted Iron Armbands of Power here. You grab Battle-Awareness here for a sorely-needed extra attack. You start to get to the point where you can take out regular enemies by yourself in two rounds. You pick up Guided Shot (Perception Utility 6, PHB3 Character Builder-exclusive preview) because Ranger utility powers suck monkey ass.

Level 7: Claws of the Griffon (PHB, 7) will do slightly more damage than Twin Strike + Ruffling Sting (MP 3) (15.5 extra damage for 2x strength and an extra 1d10 over a just a 1d10+5 (strength) + 2 (enh) + 1 (WF) + 1 (SS)) but the relative advantage won't last long. You're going to retrain it as soon as you get any more damage bonuses. Pick up a L6 +2 vanilla neck slot item and some L6 +2 vanilla armor with the money you've saved up.

Level 8: You get TWF as a feat here, which makes Claws of the Griffin exactly equal to Ruffling Sting from here on out. You also upgrade your Frost Bastard Sword and add +1 to STR and DEX. This is the level in which you swap out Claws of the Griffon for Ruffling Sting, BTW, unless you're so tired of saying 'I TWIN STRIKE the Orc!' that you're willing to trade a point of damage to get out of saying it for one round.

Level 9: You pick up Attacks on the Run, a killer power with which you will keep for a hella long time. Seriously, when you get it AotR does about 50 points of damage on its own if you hit with both attacks. It throws in a move to boot. You pick up another +2 Frost Bastard Sword.

Level 10: You pick up Gloves of Ice at this level for a sweet +2 damage boost. Two-Weapon Defense will give you a shortlived +1 bonus to AC. For your utility, you pick up Crowd Cover (Stealth Utility 10, PHB 3 preview) because, again, Ranger powers.

Level 11: You take your first level in Stormwarden. You pick up Prime Punisher and retrain Two-Weapon Defense to Called Shot. Your tactics completely change at this level, which calls out for you singling out enemies while the party works on something else. Normally this would be a bad idea because D&D worships Critical Existence failure, but your damage is getting high enough so that you can take out enemies by yourself. Stormwarden's level 11 feature, Blade Storm, automatically does an extra 5 points of damage every round. So you become a minion-killer without even trying. Of course, that's a shitty role to have but some people wank to it. The level 11 AP feature is much nicer, letting you teleport three squares when you spend an action point. Since you have so many off-action encounter attack powers this is actually very helpful for you. You also get a Stormwarden Utility, Clearing the Ground, which you will probably never use but maybe once every three encounters. Let's hear it for encounter powers worse than At-Wills! You slip your dick into a +3 vanilla hide armor.

Level 12: You grab your ass a Siberys Shard of Lasting Cold this level. You also get your Encounter Stance power, Throw Caution to the Wind, which you will be using all of the time. Because padded sumo is in effect a +2 to attack for a -2 to defenses is a great trade. You also retrain Two-Weapon Fighting to Wintertouched and grab Lasting Frost as your feats for this level, giving you another ginormous attack and damage boost. Killer level.

Level 13: Decision point time. If your DM follows the rules you grab a +3 Subtle Bastard sword and use the property for all of your attacks. If your DM doesn't follow the rules then you grab a +3 Frost Bastard Sword. You also retrain Off-Hand Strike to Off-Hand Diversion for CA you probably aren't going to use. Yawnsauce.

Level 14: Grab a +3 Frost Bastard Sword regardless of what you picked last level. Spend the rest of the money on Boots of Eagerness. Once again, put both of your stats gains into STR and DEX. Isn't choice fun?

Actually, you do have a pretty big choice now. You can choose to take a temporary power hit to gain more power later on. This involves retraining the Weapon Proficiency/Focus/Expertise line of feats. There's no way you can fix them all short of three levels of frenzied retraining and you'll have useless feats sitting by while you patch it.

If you're in for the long haul you might elect to keep your Heavy Blade feats. You're perfectly set up to go Eternal Defender in epic, whereupon in level 24 you can dual-wield Fullblades (for raw, filthy damage) or Glaives (for Heavy Blade Opportunity + Polearm Gamble + Two-Weapon Flurry Shenanigans). But if you're going to go with another Epic Destiny--Deadly Trickster is a very, very good choice--or the campaign will end before then, then check this shit out.

At level 14, pick up Weapon Proficiency: Rapier. Retrain Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword into Weapon Expertise: Light Blades. If you don't want to pick up Nimble Blade (an extra +1 to all attacks) then pick up Reserve Maneuver instead.

Level 15: Grab a +3 Vanilla Neck Slot item of whatever. If your DM is being a douche then grab a second paragon-tier Siberys Shard first, which will impact the kind of neck slot item you grab. Also, this is the level in which you grab the big mother-fucker of ranger dailies, Blade Cascade. You were able to one-shot regular enemies previously, now you can one-shot elite monsters. You replace Jaws of the Wolf with this. It will not be missed. Oh, you also get a +1 bonus to your attack from your Weapon Expertise feat.

If you're going the Nimble Blade route, retrain Weapon Focus: Heavy Blades to Nimble Blade.

Level 16: Get your ass some Iron Armbands of Power, Paragon Tier style. Then shake it, baby. You also get Twin-Blade storm, which makes you the prince of minion-killing (the wizard and invoker do it better than you still, but you do it better than the druid, making the druid the princess). Pick up Prime Quarry.

If you're going the Nimble Blade route, retrain Weapon Expertise: Heavy Blades to Weapon Focus: Light Blades.