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Tome Red Hand of Doom.
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12108

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Midnight_v wrote:
Are there any people who want to use just "regular" tome classes?
Like the things in the Pdf?
If so I'd like to be in that group.
I dont' mind being in with GoA's Barbarian that'd be cool but some of this is just... I don't want to have to start optimizing to be equal to the party. . . *sigh*


As far as I can tell... Everyone else is under the highly mistaken impression that everything ever made by the community is of equal optimization to actual Tome material.

I have no idea why. Honestly Tome Fighter and Barbarian are the two most powerful Tome classes. But most community material would feel bad if a Tome Barbarian could even keep up.
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God_of_Awesome
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I was switching to Jester anyway. I could give a rat's ass about silly things like 'optimization' and 'being useful.' I just wanna look cool while I contribute nothing significant to the party.
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Akula
Knight-Baron


Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 959
Location: Oakland CA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If you focus like a laser, a monk or a knight can be an archery powerhouse. But yeah, community classes are almost always way better than "core" tome.

EDIT: Reposting.
Quote:
After seeing it I really want to use the Soulborn class. Is it okay? I didn't see any major power creep, but I might just be one of those crazy tome people.

If not, I'll just be a Monk/Samurai.


DOUBLE EDIT: Stupid broken quote tags sneaking into my post.


Last edited by Akula on Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12108

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Soulborn is definately power creep, but it's not that big power creep, it's only a little better than a gestalt Monk//Barbarian.

But yeah, it's okay, and since now I'm looking at like 8+ people, I'll start dividing you guys up into teams.
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Avoraciopoctules
Overlord


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 8491
Location: Oakland, CA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Back sporadically until 5:30 (It's 2:50 for me as I type this). I'm a public library Information Desk volunteer, and I can browse teh intarwebs when I'm not helping patrons. My Curator isn't finished yet, but I am tweaking the text file and may have the updated version up before I leave in around 2.5 hours.

Regarding power creep: I'd prefer to be in the lower-power group, if such a distinction is made. If the Curator is too powerful, I'll switch to an Assassin or True Fiend using "core" tome content and my dilettante feats if they are acceptable. True Fiend might be better, since the Assassin might end up being very trapping-focused.

I copied the 4 dilettante feats I'm interested in into the sblock below:

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EDIT: didn't finish the Curator in time. Ideally, I'll have it and a lower-power backup PC ready next time I get Internet access.


Last edited by Avoraciopoctules on Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12108

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay:

Player wise we have:

Kore the Tome Barb
Tammi the Conduit
Aethros the Curator
Victor the Hicks Dread Necro
Thunder Ryu the Swashbuckler/Ninja
Jibberish the Drow Jester
An as yet unnamed Snowcaster
An as yet unnamed Soulburn
An as yet unnamed and unclassesd Midnight.

So the "lower power" "mostly actual Tome stuff" group is looking like:

Kore the Barb
Tammi the Conduit
Aethros the Curator
Jibberish the Jester
and maybe what Midnight wants to play.

The "High Power" or "Community" group will be:
Thunder Ryu the Ninja
Victor the Dread Necro
The Snowcaster
and the Soulburn.

Any questions? Complaints?
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God_of_Awesome
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Joined: 22 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So Izz't isn't a good name? Would if we went with her stage name? Isis alot better?
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12108

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

God_of_Awesome wrote:
So Izz't isn't a good name? Would if we went with her stage name? Isis alot better?


Look at the full name:

You have four vowels, eleven consonants and 2 apostrophes. You are a Polish Drow. I don't care about you name. But I'm not about to type it.
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God_of_Awesome
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I was gonna complain but now I'm too busy giggling at 'Polish Drow.'
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Hicks
Duke


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1143
Location: Blytheville, AR

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik wrote:
I'm a fan of: Player proposes only slightly crazy Shit. DM says yes. Move on with life.


In the group I game with I am the primary DM, and I just hand out crazier shit before they can ask; I really don't care when power ceilings are exceeded, but I do have two scoops of whupass reserved when power minimums aren't reached.

As to the groups: Coo' with me.
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Quantumboost
Knight-Baron


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 968

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik wrote:
Player wise we have:

[...]
Victor the Hicks Dread Necro


Zuh? I thought that I'm creating a new character i.e. not Victor due to:

Kaelik wrote:
You are also a minion class. I hate you. Like, a lot. I want to murder your face.

If you have any classes that don't meet those criteria that you might also want to play as much, I'm going to ask you to please please please please please please please play them.


At this stage I'm thinking a Monk/Fighter working toward Maxus' Dragoon or just a similar concept. Probably not going to bother with the PrC, actually.

Edit: Okay, here's what I have so far:

Flint Azzith
"The bigger they are, the more killing they need."

Lawful Evil Human Fighter 2/Monk 3 (Experimental Stock: +1 natural armor, -2 initiative)

Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Baatezu, Extraplanar, Human)
HD: 2d10+3d8+10 (39 hp)
Attack: Halberd +11 melee (1d10+6)
Full Attack: Halberd +11 melee (1d10+6) and slam +4 melee (1d8+2 bludgeoning)
AC: 22 (+3 Wis, +8 armor (+5 vs touch/incorporeal touch), +1 natural), touch 18, flat-footed 19
Special: weapons training, combat focus, armored in life +5, fighting styles, rain of flowers, abundant leap, evasion, immunity to fire and poison, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and electricity 8, see in darkness, telepathy
Abilities: Str 16 (18), Dex 8, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 10
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +12, Will +9
Skills: Climb +8, Jump +19 (+31 with insight bonus to speed), Knowledge (the planes) +9, Move Silently +6, Ride +4, Sense Motive +11, Survival +8 (+10 on other planes), Tumble +3
Feats: Product of Infernal Dalliance (Baatezu), Blood War Squaddie, Lightning Reflexes, Giant Slayer(B)
Languages: Common, Infernal
Alignment: Lawful Evil

Proficiencies: Pretty much whatever, given a couple days
Equipment: Magic Halberd, Belt of Strength, Magic Bronze Dragonscale Shirt, Dragoon Boots (Jump bonus + Feather Fall)

Fighting Styles: Angry Gargoyle Movement - 30' insight to speed, +4 to AC
Hungry Dragon Touch - piercing damage and 2 points Con damage, applies to weapon

Deep in the Nine Hells, there are places where mad Baatezu researchers experiment upon the fiend-tainted offspring of the mortal races, seeking to form enhanced fodder for the endless Blood War. Flint was one of the more successful subjects, what with still being alive and sapient afterwards, and was trained to fight and die against the Tanar'ri siege beasts known as Goristro. Like many others, his platoon were wiped out in one of the many futile battles in the Gray Waste, but through sheer luck he managed to not only survive, but find a portal to the Prime Material. He'd managed to escape from the Blood War, at least for a time, and now could make his own way in the world.

The Baatezu experimentation left his flesh partially hardened into a carapace, tougher but slower to react, and his extreme assault training allowed him to excel at fighting things bigger than he was - so mercenary work and fighting huge monsters was pretty much the obvious thing to do. So far, his adventures have been performed solo, but sometimes you can't get things done on your own...

Flint's approach to life is much like his approach to fighting things: jump at it headlong, hold on for dear life, and stab repeatedly.


Last edited by Quantumboost on Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:50 am; edited 3 times in total
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12108

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quantumboost wrote:
Kaelik wrote:
Player wise we have:

[...]
Victor the Hicks Dread Necro


Zuh? I thought that I'm creating a new character i.e. not Victor due to:

Kaelik wrote:
You are also a minion class. I hate you. Like, a lot. I want to murder your face.

If you have any classes that don't meet those criteria that you might also want to play as much, I'm going to ask you to please please please please please please please play them.


At this stage I'm thinking a Monk/Fighter working toward Maxus' [url=http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Dragoon_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)]Dragoon[/url] or just a similar concept.


Right... I have no idea why I forgot that you agreed to that. But yes... That's certainly fine by me. Dragoon is okayed if you want.
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Quantumboost
Knight-Baron


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 968

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sweet. Time for some Weeaboo Jumpan Akchun.
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God_of_Awesome
Knight-Baron


Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 686

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Damn it, I forgot where the Jester class was being described.
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Mask_De_H
Duke


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1812

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, I don't know my high power stuff well but I'll stick with Koumei's class and the Community side. If need be however, I'll switch to a Fire Mage or Conduit for team Balance.
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12108

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So, in case anyone is wondering how XP will work: this is the plan:

1) I have calculated when a party of four ECL 5 characters would level in Red Hand of Doom if they XP farmed every single thing in the game to be XP farmed.

2) You will all level at those points.

3) I will of course be Tomefying most of your opponents.

4) The group with five people and the "OP" group of four will mostly be facing the same encounters.

So yeah. Let's get those character sheet finished.
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Koumei
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12824
Location: South Ausfailia

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Note: I'm unlikely to even read the threads, but I'd like it if people mentioned in-play concerns with any of the things I created. Because I don't think in terms of "It has to be better than Tome Fighter", I think in terms of "It has to be awesome. List some ability names then try to make them do cool shit that fits the names".

So there seriously is no balance consideration in my approach, just the vague gut feelings. This would be really handy for helping to ease them in line with regular Tomes.
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FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 27241

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

God_of_Awesome wrote:
Damn it, I forgot where the Jester class was being described.


Dungeonomicon.

-Frank
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God_of_Awesome
Knight-Baron


Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 686

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sweet, thanks.
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God_of_Awesome
Knight-Baron


Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 686

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Now Isis is more or less complete except for her items.

I changed the Cloak of Shurikens to Cloak of Daggers (That are really darts but daggers sounds cooler) since Shuriken really are weak sauce. I looked it up.

Then a regular Dagger (Okay, punching Dagger, which had a better crit) enchanted to always crit on sneak attacks. Literally enchanted to seek out the spine and I'd understand if you said 'HELL NO' to that one.

Then I added a fifth slot with 'Regular rapier and scimitar.' I gave them one slot because I'm not even sure they deserve that.
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endersdouble
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ok, Tammi's specced out. Removed the shield he wasn't proficient in (doh!) and added Lightning Reflexes (ew, but I'm underleveled for the only fiend feats worth taking. Are there any other good caster feats? I have trouble finding ones.)

The only weakness atm is that I have essentially no at-will stuff; I have 18/day SLAs, but after that, I'm pretty useless in combat. Plus, three of those SLAs are death knell. I mean, I can carry a crossbow and take potshots, but that's not exactly a lot of damage.
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12108

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

endersdouble wrote:
Ok, Tammi's specced out. Removed the shield he wasn't proficient in (doh!) and added Lightning Reflexes (ew, but I'm underleveled for the only fiend feats worth taking. Are there any other good caster feats? I have trouble finding ones.)

The only weakness atm is that I have essentially no at-will stuff; I have 18/day SLAs, but after that, I'm pretty useless in combat. Plus, three of those SLAs are death knell. I mean, I can carry a crossbow and take potshots, but that's not exactly a lot of damage.


Yeah, I always felt that Conduit was a bit short in the early levels. Level 1: Once a day level 1 SLA. Worse than any other character.

But I usually go straight for expert, so it doesn't come up.

All those Conduit like classes Warlock/Sinister's stuff/ect. That all have basic at wills. Warlock pays for it with slower progression, but meh.

I just like at will too much.
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Midnight_v
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Joined: 15 May 2008
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Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kaelik...

What do you think about me playing the samurai with the suggested changes mentioned in the "Chopping Block" thread?
I'd like to play samurai 5 with those 2 changes for further testing.

If not what I intent to play is Samurai 4 Monk1, However... I'm also strongly considering playing a Marshall as the party may need some support guy. Depends what the crew thinks though.
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12108

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I will be ever so generous and give you the following: (Keep in mind, Tome Samurai 5 is still the second strongest character in your party).

1) Ancestral Weapon is unbreakables. Sweet.

2) You get a Combat Style. But it lasts two rounds per activation, and automatically effects your Ancestral Weapon/Weapons. Pick two of the lowest level Monk abilities. At level 10, you get two of the higher ones.

3) Ancestral Weapons can be like, two picks connected by a chain, or other bullshit to let you TWF or whatever else you want. Do not count as magical items for Book of Gears limits. And automatically use Book of Gears scaling, including rounding up.

4) Commune follows the Wildshape progression:

1/day level 5
2/day level 6
3/day level 7
level 8 = New ability
4/day level 10
Level 11 = New ability
Level 12 = New ability

ect, even though it won't come up.

But you don't get any new abilities because there is seriously no divination spell in the game as good as Commune.

Learn2Divine.
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Midnight_v
Knight-Baron


Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 628
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Learn2Divine.

Fair enough.
I've just gotten hated on by dm's for divining. They've historically just not told me relavant things.
Still though. I appreciate your consideration. I was thinking people weren't condidering what I was saying at all.
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