Tome Red Hand of Doom.

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:34 pm

Kaelik wrote:1) Everyone, finally edited in everyone's class with comments.

2) Quantum...

Why did your post specifically say "HoH Dread Necromancer" if you weren't using the Heroes of Horror Dread Necromancer?

I was previously using the HoH one, but changed it... and forgot to change that bit. My bad.

3) No other undead subtype says "Heals normally" Does that mean that every single other undead is healed by positive energy? What is the point of having a completely superflous statement with no meaning or changes?

Unintelligent undead don't heal by resting, as intelligent undead do. I... guess that might be what it's referring to? Idunno.

You are also a minion class. I hate you. Like, a lot. I want to murder your face.

If you have any classes that don't meet those criteria that you might also want to play as much, I'm going to ask you to please please please please please please please play them.

Okay, I can do that. No big.

God_of_Awesome · Post by **God_of_Awesome** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:59 pm

Okay so you figure I should be throwin shit all day long? Coo'

I should take away my Dual Wieldin' feat then for some throw shit feat. Or maybe get back on board with that fire and purging feat I read about.

So, can I summon critters with the gloves?

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:12 pm

God_of_Awesome wrote:Okay so you figure I should be throwin shit all day long? Coo'

I should take away my Dual Wieldin' feat then for some throw shit feat. Or maybe get back on board with that fire and purging feat I read about.

So, can I summon critters with the gloves?

1) TWFing is a throw shit feat though, you throw twice as much. Your choice on that vs PB Shot, ect.

2) You can only summon non living objects of size, but you can store any rats or rabbits or whatever that you catch (or train) in there for as long as you want, in stasis.

Tiny or smaller only though.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:27 pm

Kaelik:

1) Both of them are Koumei specials, found here and here

2) Frank says in the (non cut off part of) The Book of Gears Magic Item/Weapon section, that minor magic items should be at most Caster Level 5. Mirror Image is a Spell level 2 spell, thus snaggable at Level 3. So a Ring of the thing is a feasible thing to have on a minor. Check the PDF, it's where I got the magic weapon/item rules I used for.

endersdouble · Post by **endersdouble** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:44 pm

Mask_De_H wrote:Kaelik:
2) Frank says in the (non cut off part of) The Book of Gears Magic Item/Weapon section, that minor magic items should be at most Caster Level 5. Mirror Image is a Spell level 2 spell, thus snaggable at Level 3. So a Ring of the thing is a feasible thing to have on a minor. Check the PDF, it's where I got the magic weapon/item rules I used for.

Kaelik,

I used the same reasoning for a ring of invisibility (the level 2 spell.) If you think that's unreasonable, fine by me (my thought was it would cast the spell either at-will or N/day; probably at-will.) I can replace it with something else, though I'm not sure what.

I'm also fine replacing leadership (though I'll miss at-will command

). Can anyone suggest a good substitute feat? I'm obviously not going to get much out of the [Combat] feats, and I don't have enough skill points for many of those feats to be particularly valuable either (though I could ditch Spellcraft for something...)

Fenrisulfr · Post by **Fenrisulfr** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:33 pm

I'd like to play a Snowscaper (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=50012), but the class isn't what I would consider "finished," as some of the abilities don't really do anything game-wise. Given the battlefield-shaping nature of the class, I'd suggest modifying the following abilities:

Ground Freeze: Give it a grease effect as mentioned by Maxus.

Let It Snow: If you don't want to use or don't have It's Cold Outside, I think this should just make terrain difficult. The mechanics of a foot of snow falling every 6 seconds makes my head hurt, so I'm not going to think about that too much.

The Snowscaper should at least be immune to their own abilities and probably to any similar natural effects, so they're not impeded by snow or ice, they can see fine in blizzards, stuff like that.

Also, there are I think two typos, one in Coldfire (should read 1d6 cold damage per character level like all the other abilities) and one in Blizzard of '52 (should be (1/3 character level + Cha mod)d6 of slashing and piercing damage).

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:12 am

Snowcaster, get back to you after dinner.

Regarding magic items. It seems really clear from the example as a wand of cure light wounds that infinite use 3rd level spell (or second level spells) are not game for minor magic items.

You can have a CL 5 wand of spell X, with 50 charges (keep in mind, you totally will get replacements, using things up is fine. But not every day, so this is different than at will.) or a 5/per day (or whatever the DMG guideline for converting charges into uses per day is, if it's greater than 5.)

God_of_Awesome · Post by **God_of_Awesome** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:07 am

How do I summon animals I store?

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:51 am

Kaelik wrote:What is a Belt of Magnificence? Are you seriously trying to pass of as one of your items something that gives six enhancement bonuses and is therefore completely destroying the Book of Gears by itself? The whole point of "eight items" is that you can only have 8 level appropriate bonuses, and everything else needs to be lateral power.

That is a lot of words to not say "No". "Shame on you!" yes, but not "No". A belt of magnificence is a single magical Item out of the Miniatures Handbook, and yes it does effectively provide six +1 bonuses to a number of rolls, causing me to hit and save and skill on 1 more number, damage 1 higher, go 1 faster, and dodge 1 better.

If your really meant "No", how about a Giant Belt of Strength (totally made up on the spot right now)? It has an enhancement bonus to Strength and provides these two other abilities to its wearer:

Mine's Bigger: The wearer of this belt increases their and any held possession's natural size category by 1 (i.e. -1 AC/Attack, +4 Grapple, Increases Reach) as long as they wear this belt.

"Rock" Throwing: The wearer of this belt can throw stuff equal to their size category or less. Things thrown must be of the wearer's size category or smaller and weigh no more than the the wearer's light load (larger objects are too cumbersome, and heavy objects don't fly as far). A medium object deals 1d6, 20/x2 bludgeoning damage, and has a range increment of 20' plus an additional 20' for every size category above fine the wearer is (a medium creature increment is 100', and a large creature's increment is 120').

Something really bad has to happen for me to use the "Rock" Throwing ability, as it can't be used while Raging as it is a (non-magical) ranged attack, but I think it's cool

God_of_Awesome · Post by **God_of_Awesome** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:30 am

Oh, and could I have such a magic item in bag form? I just like having a Bag of Holding that can also hold living things. Like gnomes.

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:40 am

Avoraciopoctules has internet problems, they will prevent him from posting till Friday. His modem is burnt out. He also wanted to ask about taking some of these feats. Specifically the healer one.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:46 am

Ah, alright then. I'll go for the 5/day item thing.

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:57 am

Avoraciopoctules, Be warned about those feats:

You have been warned.

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:07 am

You know he wrote all of them, right?

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:12 am

Yes, yes I do. The first one was underpowered, but I could have lived with it. The rest, I believe, are too weak because of lack of perspective, and not on his part either. The advice was... lacking. I already addressed it in his thread.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:41 am

I can see why there are so few Tome games. Because apparently anyone at all who wants to play a Tome game is an uncompromising Dick.

1) Why do you want a fucking bag? Bags that give dex bonuses are all kinds of crazy. No you can't put a Gnome in the bag. There is a reason I limited the size.

Why on earth do you want a bag of holding instead of a glove of storing but better?

2) Just curious Hicks, if I said "Ow. That hurts. Why are you stabbing me? That stabbing hurts me. Ow." Would you gather from that information that I wanted you to stop stabbing me? Or would you be a giant asshole and think that the fact that I didn't specifically say "Stop" means I want you to keep stabbing.

No you can't have an item that is directly fucking contradictory to the entire fucking point of Book of Gears item changes as one of your four Book of Gears items.

Just like you can't have as one of your items Six Different Items.

You guys should have like one lesser item at most, and everything else should be bog standard magic items with just one bonus.

As for your giant throwing. No. You can have the same item without one of those properties.

God_of_Awesome · Post by **God_of_Awesome** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:31 am

Okay, fucking jeez man. Glove it is.

Hicks · Post by **Hicks** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:00 pm

Kaelik wrote:As for your giant throwing. No. You can have the same item without one of those properties.

Agreed!

Giant Belt of Strength: When worn it provides an enhancement bonus to Strength and increases the wearer's and any of their held possession's natural size category by 1 (i.e. -1 AC/Attack, +4 Grapple, Increases Reach, no mods top STR, DEX, or CON) as long as they wear this belt.

I'll edit it into my character sheet.

The way I see it, we call for crazy shit, you counter with non-crazy shit, we negotiate to less crazy shit, you say crazy shit is crazy, and finally we compromise to only slightly crazy shit. Characters and NPC, players and DMs: Bartering for magic items both in game and out.

RANDOM TANGENT EDIT:

Kaelik wrote:2) Just curious Hicks, if I said "Ow. That hurts. Why are you stabbing me? That stabbing hurts me. Ow." Would you gather from that information that I wanted you to stop stabbing me? Or would you be a giant asshole and think that the fact that I didn't specifically say "Stop" means I want you to keep stabbing.

You could just be really masochistic

Probably not, but when I assumes it makes an ass out of u and me

This way, only I am made to be an ass

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:11 pm

Ninja and Swashbuckler are approved for at least the levels I read (up to level 6 in each class) except that the Ninja Surprise ability is terribad, and is replaced with an arbitrary +2 damage per CL.

Snowscaper has some issues:

"Create Ice Object (Su): At level 2 a Snowscaper may use a standard action to create any object or objects she's seen seen before--out of ice. They may be created in the air or in a square of your choice (within range), 10 lbs per character level, short range, a number of objects equal to your character level. Hardness equal to 10 + ½ Character level + Charisma Modifier, but takes 1d6 damage each round it’s in non-freezing temperature (which the Snowscaper can get around). Treat it as having the HP of a material of a similar hardness, if you care that much about sundering. Also, creating your maximum amount is a full-round action."

The part where you can create 5 49lb objects as a standard action for no goddam reason is all kinds of stupid, and subject to epic amounts of bullshit, where you are better than any wizard ever at everything. Not to mention the BS of automatic no save 125lb encumbrance on people. Where if they fail a save it becomes 250lbs.

You can create one object. And Encumber is save negates.

"Frost’s Bite (Su): At level 3, the Snowscaper’s ice abilities generate a bitter cold. Her cold abilities penetrate Cold immunity, resistance, and hardness."

Does half damage to cold immune.

"Let It Snow (Su): As a standard action, the Snowscaper may it snow in a medium-range radius, in as wide or as small an area as you want (within the radius). It starts off with a foot of snow, and goes up a foot every round until you tell it to stop."

I sure as fuck don't want to be dealing with adding feet of snow arbitrarily, or with you arbitrarily burying shit in 2,000ft mountains of snow. It's a special difficult terrain that is negated by that snow shoes spell, and does 1d6 cold damage to people you don't like.

"Never-melt Ice (Su): At level 6, the Snowscaper’s ice creations are immune to all fire and won’t melt unless the Snowscaper allows it or the Snowscaper dies."

Nope. This ability disappears. Fire still burns.

"Create More Ice (Su): At level 7, the Snowscaper may create 100 lbs of ice per character level within medium range. She may now make three separate objects per character level."

3 objects total. Fuck no, no one gets to make 4899lbs of ice in a standard action. Nor can you encumber people for amount NI.

Hicks wrote:The way I see it, we call for crazy shit, you counter with non-crazy shit, we negotiate to less crazy shit, you say crazy shit is crazy, and finally we compromise to only slightly crazy shit. Characters and NPC, players and DMs: Bartering for magic items both in game and out.

I'm a fan of: Player proposes only slightly crazy Shit. DM says yes. Move on with life.

Mask_De_H · Post by **Mask_De_H** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:41 pm

Alright, made the Surprise! change.

Fenrisulfr · Post by **Fenrisulfr** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:12 pm

Create Ice Object:

Kaelik wrote:The part where you can create 5 49lb objects as a standard action for no goddam reason is all kinds of stupid, and subject to epic amounts of bullshit, where you are better than any wizard ever at everything. Not to mention the BS of automatic no save 125lb encumbrance on people. Where if they fail a save it becomes 250lbs.

You can create one object. And Encumber is save negates.

Create More Ice:

3 objects total. Fuck no, no one gets to make 4899lbs of ice in a standard action. Nor can you encumber people for amount NI.

I'd assumed that the weight limit was the total limit of creatable ice per use, not weight per object. So you can create 1 object of 50 lbs, or 5 of 10 pounds each, that sort of thing. Also, the part where it's a full-round action to do max weight doesn't make any sense. What the hell's the difference between 49 pounds of ice and 50 pounds of ice? I'd either just have them be standard actions all the time, or make the difference meaningful and have a standard action produce half of the maximum amount of ice. Create Tons of Ice would still be a full-round action all the time.

I'm cool with Encumber being save negates.

Frost's Bite:

Does half damage to cold immune.

Sure. I was always curious why it just flat out penetrated immunity.

Let It Snow:

I sure as fuck don't want to be dealing with adding feet of snow arbitrarily, or with you arbitrarily burying shit in 2,000ft mountains of snow. It's a special difficult terrain that is negated by that snow shoes spell, and does 1d6 cold damage to people you don't like.

Sounds good to me.

Never-melt Ice:

Nope. This ability disappears. Fire still burns.

How about it doesn't melt in non-freezing temperatures and fire doesn't do any special damage to it, so it doesn't pierce hardness (if it did before, I seem to remember that somewhere, but I can't find it) and does half damage. Or, if you're that against magical ice being resistant to fire, just the non-melting part.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:29 pm

Fenrisulfr wrote:I'd assumed that the weight limit was the total limit of creatable ice per use, not weight per object. So you can create 1 object of 50 lbs, or 5 of 10 pounds each, that sort of thing. Also, the part where it's a full-round action to do max weight doesn't make any sense. What the hell's the difference between 49 pounds of ice and 50 pounds of ice? I'd either just have them be standard actions all the time, or make the difference meaningful and have a standard action produce half of the maximum amount of ice. Create Tons of Ice would still be a full-round action all the time.

That makes more sense and is fine. Yeah, total weight, tons of objects if you want. Also, always standard for these two, because... well, 49 not different from 50 in most respects.

Fenrisulfr wrote:Sure. I was always curious why it just flat out penetrated immunity.

Because Tome people are crazy, and refuse to accept any limits at all of any kind.

Fenrisulfr wrote:How about it doesn't melt in non-freezing temperatures and fire doesn't do any special damage to it, so it doesn't pierce hardness (if it did before, I seem to remember that somewhere, but I can't find it) and does half damage. Or, if you're that against magical ice being resistant to fire, just the non-melting part.

Sure, not melting in regular temp is fine. But no for the fire. Even magical ice is more susceptible to fire than it is to Acid. If fire automatically pierces hardness, I'll just say it uses half hardness, since you already have a hardness that is higher than most sources of damage.

Fenrisulfr · Post by **Fenrisulfr** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:51 pm

Alright, that all sounds fair. I'll get a character written up hopefully sometime today.

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:52 pm

Are there any people who want to use just "regular" tome classes?
Like the things in the Pdf?
If so I'd like to be in that group.
I dont' mind being in with GoA's Barbarian that'd be cool but some of this is just... I don't want to have to start optimizing to be equal to the party. . . *sigh*

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:55 pm

After seeing it I really want to use the Soulborn class. Is it okay? I didn't see any major power creep, but I might just be one of those crazy tome people.

If not, I'll just be a Monk/Samurai.