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How I Failed at Life and Ravenloft

 
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Hicks
Duke


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1140
Location: Blytheville, AR

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:30 am    Post subject: How I Failed at Life and Ravenloft Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So I have this good friend, Chrissy; at the time I'd known her for 5 years. Every month she'd tell me of an awesome campaign she was in and tell me of stories of her super cool Wu-jen Wizard and the most awesomest gamemaster EvAR, Jeff. For 5 years, I said "Nah, I don't do that kind of gaming.", but in 2005 I went to college and had my first 2 day 3.0 dungeons and dragons campaign, and that was awesome. Naturally, the first thing I did was call Chrissy and say "I'm in."

The problems start in character creation. Since this was 2005, the whole AD&D cycle was over and there were like over 9,000 options. So I did what anyone would do wioth 2 weeks untill game time with an entire system to learn: curl into a ball and cry for 7 days straight. Mercifully, Chrissy took pity on me and asked the question all people ask when they want to help but don't know what the hell they are doing: "Hey, does this sound cool?"

7 days later we settled on a Tiefling Monk. So I show up an hour early to the game with Chrissy and we sat down with Jeff to hash out what the character should be. I roll the stats and Jeff asks 3 times if I want to keep them or reroll, but you see he just said they were average so I thought the stats were OK. Then he said "Hicks, I really don't want to convert a 1e class to 2e." So I was like "Kay!" and we picked psionicist because I thought it was cool. He was called Alekzandr Madrigore, and boy did he suck

TWO MONTHS LATER
It was the end of the campaign, we were to fight the evil Werewolf Dark Lord in his mountain fortress, and I had failed at everything I had touched. I failed at character introductions: when asked what my job was I told them that I made watches because I could cut gems. And then I was wrestled, diliverance style, by the party cleric when tested for fighting capability. Since I was a psionicist, I disintegrated a rock as a show of my power. That was the last successful use of my power, like ever, because mercifully my power would shut off for the rest of the day because the mind of an undead or flesh golem or witch or anything would induce face clawing maddness. Every time I decided to use my "psychic power" it failed and my power would be cut off for 24 hours. So I started using my Flint-Lock musket and when that failed I resolved to using a sword i was not proficient with. Not that it was magic or I had any bonus to hit; I'd roll a d20, then subtract numbers, all before I got to use my pitiful THac0. Nothing I tried ever worked. In the last session, our party sourrounded in a podunk town by an encroaching cloud of evil monsters, I used dream travel to take the party to the fortress of the BBEG. I didn't get the success number right, and by the time I had figured it out the party had started infiltraiting the lair, so I shut the hell up and didn't correct my mistake. Immidieatly after, we faught a flesh golem and BAM, no more psionic mojo.

Then we fight the boss, and the DM asks me

    "do you have a +3 magic weapon?"
    "No."
    "Whats its magic bonus?"
    "It's not magic."

Everybody gasped! They couldn't believe I went 2 months with no treasure, no xp, no nothing. So we fought the boss anyway and there I was, blasting it every other round with my non-magical flintlock for no damage even if I hit, when the guy who played the two weapon fighting Pit Fighter Dwarf leaned over and talked with Chrissy, and then they both leaned over and talked to Jeff. The next round, the dwarf starts "praying" and Chrissy casts true strike. Next round:

    "Hicks, roll a save vs. Death"
    "(sigh..) I failed."
    "You die.""
    "LOL WAT?"

Turns out I just failed a save from a Chromatic Orb: Black, casted by Chrissy! In cold blood she betrayed and murdered a character that did nothing but aid her, and the Dark Powers, summoned by the prayers of the mist warden pit fighter dwarf, took muther-fucking notice! Immidieatly she was invested with all the powers of a Dark Lord and in a single round brutally murdered the big Werewolf Boss. But before his wolfishness bit the dust, he dealt a mortal blow to Chrissy. With her dying breath, she recanted and gave up her powers, died, and her soul escaped ravenloft, for ending tremendous evil! In the aftermath, the party cleric couldn't Rez me, so instead of dying and staying dead he made me his revenant thrall to wander the demiplane of terror 4EVAR! This campaign experience was so bad, I wrote a poem:
    Here lies the mind,
    Who could not find,
    A single, small success.
    Killed by his friend
    In Demon's Den;
    Damn Dwarf who caused this mess.



Now I can't stress enough just how good a DM Jeff was or how Chrissy is still and extreamly good friend of mine. The mistakes I made (from ability score generation and placement, class and race combinations, power selection, and in play tactical choices) were corrected. I became a Power Gamer for the sole purpose of preventing this "experience" from happening to anyone I game with.
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"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd

shadzar wrote:
those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.

Lokathor wrote:
Commander: Ah! Adventurers! Perfect.
Tibellus: You can tell by the lobster on my head.


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Last edited by Hicks on Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:38 am; edited 2 times in total
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shadzar
Prince


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 4915

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1- Psionics never worked.
MTHAC0, and MDAC, and all that crap. They just never really fit or could find a place. The closest thing to a working psionics class was sorcerer in 3rd.

2- Ravenloft was not an easy setting. It is riddled with all the bad things literally. Curses, diseases, etc. It was in no way an entry level game, and not for the faint of heart player. Some viewed it like Castlevania, but that was weak compared to what RL would hold for D&D players.

So it wasn't that you sucked...just psionics do because they NEVER worked.
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Hicks
Duke


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1140
Location: Blytheville, AR

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I (mistakenly) trusted the system, and I payed the price. Nobody took me aside and said, "Hicks, your character makes baby Jesus cry. Let me help you not suck a barrel of cocks, 'kay?" and I would have said, "'Kay!" and I would have not wasted 2 months of life looking foreward to failure. This is what happens to players who don't know the rules of the game. Literally every action I took failed, miserably. I never succeeded an ability check, proficiency check, psionic power check, attack roll, or saving throw for the entire campaign. My ability scores were too low, my powers were mismatched, my tactics were inane, and I contributed nothing; mind you, not for lack of trying.

THIS IS THE RESULT OF THE PLAYERS NOT KNOWING THE RULES. It was neither a good nor fun experience. BE WARNED.

edit: there is no "g" in "character"
_________________
"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd

shadzar wrote:
those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.

Lokathor wrote:
Commander: Ah! Adventurers! Perfect.
Tibellus: You can tell by the lobster on my head.


Stuff I've Made
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shadzar
Prince


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 4915

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No this is the result of a DM they didn't understand that psionics never worked.

"we picked psionicist"

That is why it was removed from the PHB, and completely reworked in the splatbooks.

You needed to know only one rule, that many people will not except. Psinoics is banned from the game. That is the rule the DM should have made.

I could place it on you if you want though.

You screwed up form going outside of the PHB to begin with and playing some trash class.

But many people want to try to play psionics because they look cool. They just NEVER work in D&D until 4th when every class is the same thing.

Previous editions had the class fit the flavor, but in 4th the flavor is just added to the system which will allow psionics to work.

In all editions prior to 4th psionics did not work because it was like slapping a band-aid on a severed torso. You are adding a whole new system that not all other classes had the parts for.

Every other class then needed to have mental defenses that were not needed prior to psionics. Just look at the trash in the Complete psionics handbook,a nd compare it to others.

The DM should have told you, not let you use it if this was your first intro to D&D.

As well Ravenloft should not be an intro into D&D. That is why White Wolf made VtM and such for a system MADE for that sort of settings.

Undead were not a minor thing in D&D and were set above the rest in terms of anything. It was only for the skilled player, and then not much fun for many because you got stuck in the undead.

Afflicted characters and whatnot didn't compensate because then everyone just had the same weakness of being undead.

Ravenloft is a cute system, but any competent DM would not let a new player play psionics, and only rarely let ANY player use them after the DM has heavily house-ruled them.

Whether you knew the rules or not, you would have failed as a psionicist, because they did not work.

You cannot blame the system for making you a powergamer or whatever because you were allowed to play the most worthless class in the game, that was never fully developed or implemented for the game.

You would have been better off working with the DM to make your own class.

Pionics don't belong in D&D since there is already wizards that can have a mentalist specialty and use those rules. As well the psionics pre-4th never worked.

Maybe in novels, because they have author fiat on their side.

Anyone can cherry-pick the worse thing in a game and say the game was bad because of that one thing. The sad part is you were allowed to play that crap. Had you had a working class, you might have actually been able to have fun in the hell that is Ravenloft.
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Hicks
Duke


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1140
Location: Blytheville, AR

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Shadzar, we are not arguing, we are agreeing. I did not, Jeff did not, He/She/It did not know that psionics was as broken as a car in 9001 pieces. Had we understood the rules at the time, there would have been no story to tell, and no tragic aesop either: ignore the rules at your peril.
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"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd

shadzar wrote:
those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.

Lokathor wrote:
Commander: Ah! Adventurers! Perfect.
Tibellus: You can tell by the lobster on my head.


Stuff I've Made
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shadzar
Prince


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 4915

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I notice your agreement in the other thread. The problem is not that you didn't know the rules, or another player didn't know them, but the DM didn't.

I have never said the DM shouldn't know the rules. They should and as mentioned in threads else, should have mastered them to be able to handle them.

Where in the fuck did you even get the psionic class from? It is only in complete psionics, dark sun, and dragon, maybe planescape.

I surely don't recall it being in ravenloft, even though the flavor of screwing with someones mind is a key point to the mists themselves as well the pleasure of many of the rulers of the individual regions within the mists.

I am just pissed a DM did that to you for you to think you failed, no matter what I feel or think about you.

I hate fucktard DMs!

I begged one player not to play a psionicist. They refused to listen. They got fucked over at every turn and could not figure out why. Everyone at the table after about 40 times of the psionics stuff not working turn to him and said psionics aren't made for D&D. The splatbook did nothing but put out an idea. Then he wanted to play a bard Rolling Eyes

He had a bit more luck with that. But not much because we didn't like bards. They were a waste of our time. He was able to play it though and not get screwed over AS much. But found out he didn't like it either.

That is why DMs have to warn players about things that don't work about the game in general, or things that don't work for the group. That is all that need be told about them. The why doesn't matter. Group doesn't like bards, then you pick something else, or they invent a modified form of kender-toss but using bards. A class you read on the interwebs about and think is cool, a DM has the responsibility, nay DUTY, to tell you it doesn't work.

A DM lying about something in-game is one thing because not everything learned by players will be true, but lying to a new player just chaps my willy!

Those are the ones that further the "DM v player" concept where it shouldn't exist, and just bad DMs.

Bash

Don't fuck with players before the game...wait until they are in the dungeon and out of rations to fuck with the characters! Never fuck with the players!
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CatharzGodfoot
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

And that is why it's sometimes better to start playing 1 or 2e as a fighter. although, really, that was a game that took artifact swords or total system mastery. Thank goodness we now have things like the fire mage, which can make a complete newbie feel both K-rad and super-cool.
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Mount Flamethrower on rear
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Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You got any other stories of being screwed by the system, Hicks?
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Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Hicks
Duke


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
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Location: Blytheville, AR

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Nope, that's it. After that I bought "THE WORLD"S LARGEST DUNGEON" and started DMing. Nothing teaches system mastery faster than teaching it to everyone else; though I did game with 2 other compotent DMs, I quickly eclipsed their rules knowledge because of my, ahem, motivation.

Learning experiences are learning: I once said to a player who had been ripped appart by an equal CRed Hydra that "The game says that an equal CR encounter expends 1/5th of your party's resources, and since this is a party of 5, and they are undamaged, 20% of the party's resources were expended..."

Man Tears I still haven't lived that down.

But the story of that campaign is for another time.
_________________
"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd

shadzar wrote:
those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.

Lokathor wrote:
Commander: Ah! Adventurers! Perfect.
Tibellus: You can tell by the lobster on my head.


Stuff I've Made
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by Hicks on Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Roy
Prince


Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 2770

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hicks wrote:
Nope, that's it. After that I bought "THE WORLD"S LARGEST DUNGEON" and started DMing. Nothing teaches system mastery faster than teaching it to everyone else; though I did game with 2 other compotent DMs, I quickly eclipsed their rules knowledge because of my, ahem, motivation.

Learning experiences are learning: I once said to a player who had been ripped appart by an equal CRed Hydra that "The game says that an equal CR encounter expends 1/5th of your party's resources, and since this is a party of 5, and they are undamaged, 20% of the party's resources were expended..."

Man Tears I still haven't lived that down.

But the story of that campaign is for another time.


It's another time. Hop to it.
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Draco_Argentum wrote:
Mister_Sinister wrote:
Clearly, your cock is part of the big barrel the server's busy sucking on.


Can someone tell it to stop using its teeth please?


Juton wrote:
Damn, I thought [Pathfailure] accidentally created a feat worth taking, my mistake.


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mean_liar
Duke


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I fully endorse the idea that 1 PC is 20-25% of the party's resources. Smile
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Zebeyana
NPC


Joined: 29 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

CatharzGodfoot wrote:
And that is why it's sometimes better to start playing 1 or 2e as a fighter. although, really, that was a game that took artifact swords or total system mastery. Thank goodness we now have things like the fire mage, which can make a complete newbie feel both K-rad and super-cool.


Which gives me an opportunity to ask a question that has been bugging me. Is the Fire Mage immune to their own fire? My fiance says that no, because of the piercing flames they take half damage, but I think they should be. Any ideas?

(yes, I only joined this forum to ask THIS question!)
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Hicks
Duke


Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1140
Location: Blytheville, AR

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This will totally blow her mind:

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edit: CURSE YOU AND YOUR NINJARY! STILL LOVE YOU!!!!!
_________________
"Besides, my strong, cult like faith in the colon of the cards allows me to pull whatever I need out of my posterior!"
-Kid Radd

shadzar wrote:
those training harder get more, and training less, don't get the more.

Lokathor wrote:
Commander: Ah! Adventurers! Perfect.
Tibellus: You can tell by the lobster on my head.


Stuff I've Made
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)


Last edited by Hicks on Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Quantumboost
Knight-Baron


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Zebeyana wrote:
Which gives me an opportunity to ask a question that has been bugging me. Is the Fire Mage immune to their own fire? My fiance says that no, because of the piercing flames they take half damage, but I think they should be. Any ideas?


Fire Mages are immune to fire. Piercing Flames specifically causes fire immunity etc. (the ability seen on fire elementals, baatezu, and Fire Mages) to negate no more than half the Fire Mage's fire damage. None of the Fire Mage's abilities make him specifically unaffected by Piercing Flames, so...

No, a Fire Mage as written is no more immune to their own fire than anyone else with fire immunity is. They still take half damage from Fire Mage fire attacks.

Whether they should be immune to it or not is a completely separate - and more importantly subjective - question. I'd say no, since that makes Fire Mage-Fire Mage duels even dumber to watch than a healer-healer duel.
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Zebeyana
NPC


Joined: 29 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quantumboost wrote:
No, a Fire Mage as written is no more immune to their own fire than anyone else with fire immunity is. They still take half damage from Fire Mage fire attacks.

Whether they should be immune to it or not is a completely separate - and more importantly subjective - question. I'd say no, since that makes Fire Mage-Fire Mage duels even dumber to watch than a healer-healer duel.


Well, darn, there goes that potential tactic.

My reasoning was this, if a Fire Mage can ignite his/her body (Hand of Fire) and cause damage by touching someone, and that uses the Piercing flames also, but does no damage to the Fire Mage, could they be immune to THEIR own fire, but not another Fire Mage's? But I do see your point. I guess I lost this one.
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