Moderator: Moderators
After errata, Bottomless Depths Defense costs 7m, 1 agg HL to use. It lasts for 1 attack and perfectly soaks the damage of one attack.fectin wrote:Water Dragon also makes you invincible for a turn, if I recall Depths of the Water Dragon correctly..
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
Got nerfed pretty hard. Used to be it was 3m 1 ahl for a tick's worth of immunity to damage. The ahl cost also counts as a Flaw of Invulnerability, so the new language which disadvantages Charms with such Flaws kicks in.fectin wrote:Oh? Perfect soaks are better than nothing, and terrestrials don't have a lot of better options, but that's still pretty weak.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
Thing is, if you're smart you'll fix things so you can't be maneuvered out of a perfect defense anyway, or take PDs which cover the holes in your defense (like say, as a Solar you take the compassion flaw which states you must be in the presence of someone or something you care about to use it, then play a narcissist who loves his battle gear) or some shit like that.fectin wrote:Actually, every perfect had a flaw before (and presumably after as well). The AHL counting as the "flaw" was fantastic, because you couldn't be maneuvered out of having a perfect defense.
The Primordials were the premiere reality hackers and they still got pwnt by the respawning Exalt zerg. The fact is that you still need to be a combat badass or know a combat badass in order to survive in Creation. It's also why Dawns suck, because they 1) have being a combat badass written into their schtick, but everyone else is also expected to be a combat badass 2) the rules for them don't actually support them being that much more badassful than the others 3) they pay for their comparatively minor advantage with increased costs for the finer things in life, like reality hax.If you're a solar though, you have infinitely better options. Yeah, you could spend your XP on hitting people super hard, but you can also spend it on rewriting reality arbitrarily to suit your tastes. And, as ever, rewriting reality is the best option.
Part of the reason Primordials were pwned is because they had acual, interesting, meaningful flaws in their PDs. Ebon Dragon is pwnd by Holy, Malfeas is pwnd while in the wilderness, Adorjan is pwnd if she stops, etc. Solars are fucking munchkins with flaws "Can't retreat".Silent Wayfarer wrote:The Primordials were the premiere reality hackers and they still got pwnt by the respawning Exalt zerg. The fact is that you still need to be a combat badass or know a combat badass in order to survive in Creation. It's also why Dawns suck, because they 1) have being a combat badass written into their schtick, but everyone else is also expected to be a combat badass 2) the rules for them don't actually support them being that much more badassful than the others 3) they pay for their comparatively minor advantage with increased costs for the finer things in life, like reality hax.
Josh Kablack wrote:Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.
In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
THis is a big part of why I prefer playing infernals over solars. Infernals have much more interesting weaknesses in the different ability chains.Longes wrote:Part of the reason Primordials were pwned is because they had acual, interesting, meaningful flaws in their PDs. Ebon Dragon is pwnd by Holy, Malfeas is pwnd while in the wilderness, Adorjan is pwnd if she stops, etc. Solars are fucking munchkins with flaws "Can't retreat".Silent Wayfarer wrote:The Primordials were the premiere reality hackers and they still got pwnt by the respawning Exalt zerg. The fact is that you still need to be a combat badass or know a combat badass in order to survive in Creation. It's also why Dawns suck, because they 1) have being a combat badass written into their schtick, but everyone else is also expected to be a combat badass 2) the rules for them don't actually support them being that much more badassful than the others 3) they pay for their comparatively minor advantage with increased costs for the finer things in life, like reality hax.
Spirit charms. Principle of motion is autowin; the ones that increase your willpower/essence are tasty, and there's one that lets you teleport across creation (Hurry Home, maybe?). You can even find most of them in the core book.Lago PARANOIA wrote:As a 2E Eclipse-caste Solar of Ess 4-6, what cross-splat charms should I have my eyes on and what combos should I be putting together that's not from Dragonblooded or Lunar?
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
This is a non-argument in powerlevel discussion. The Primordial War was won by authorial fiat (if nerds on game forums can think of a half-dozen way for the Primordials to beat Exalted respawn, my favorite being a super contagious disease, which only effect is "make the host reject Exaltation" and which perfectly protects itself against all cures thanks to the universal primacy of defense over offense in 2E, then godlike beings surely can invent more).Silent Wayfarer wrote: The Primordials were the premiere reality hackers and they still got pwnt by the respawning Exalt zerg.
It was in 1E. But if I remember all the limitations correctly, Roll of Glorious Divinity nerfed it to shit in 2E. Sure, it still can be useful to store actions in advance and alpha strike people on your first combat tick, but actually invoking it in an ongoing combat is a really foolish idea.fectin wrote:Principle of motion is autowin;
Shaping is useless against Solars, because they have a very cheap charm that gives day-long resistance to itFatR wrote:This is a non-argument in powerlevel discussion. The Primordial War was won by authorial fiat (if nerds on game forums can think of a half-dozen way for the Primordials to beat Exalted respawn, my favorite being a super contagious disease, which only effect is "make the host reject Exaltation" and which perfectly protects itself against all cures thanks to the universal primacy of defense over offense in 2E, then godlike beings surely can invent more).Silent Wayfarer wrote: The Primordials were the premiere reality hackers and they still got pwnt by the respawning Exalt zerg.
The problem with reality hacking, as far as I remember the gyst of optimization discussions back then, was that with a very few exceptions from Sidereal arsenal it really did jackshit against combat turtles, who could just perfect everything away and stab you in the face. Your best bet was to apply stuff like Wyld Cauldron to craft yourself better equipment for murderizing people.
In Roll it gives (Willpower) extra actions. Errata all extra action charms to (Essence) actionsFatR wrote:It was in 1E. But if I remember all the limitations correctly, Roll of Glorious Divinity nerfed it to shit in 2E. Sure, it still can be useful to store actions in advance and alpha strike people on your first combat tick, but actually invoking it in an ongoing combat is a really foolish idea
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
The best(and most underused) reality hack is to just initiate "mass combat"(which the rules let you do at any time even in a 1v1 fight). Anyone without points in war get fucked and if you carry around an npc(I have demon armor) you can get a free +4 to all your attacks and defenses.FatR wrote:This is a non-argument in powerlevel discussion. The Primordial War was won by authorial fiat (if nerds on game forums can think of a half-dozen way for the Primordials to beat Exalted respawn, my favorite being a super contagious disease, which only effect is "make the host reject Exaltation" and which perfectly protects itself against all cures thanks to the universal primacy of defense over offense in 2E, then godlike beings surely can invent more).Silent Wayfarer wrote: The Primordials were the premiere reality hackers and they still got pwnt by the respawning Exalt zerg.
The problem with reality hacking, as far as I remember the gyst of optimization discussions back then, was that with a very few exceptions from Sidereal arsenal it really did jackshit against combat turtles, who could just perfect everything away and stab you in the face. Your best bet was to apply stuff like Wyld Cauldron to craft yourself better equipment for murderizing people.
Green Sun Wasting/Final Viridiscence from the Infernals book is pretty much intended to be an analogue for radiation sickness.Koumei wrote:Does one of the books have a list of poisons/hazards? I'm ideally looking for something that'd be a close fit for radiation sickness.
Old news. Jon Chung argued for 20 pages with Holden about that on rpg.net half a year ago.Heaven's Thunder Hammer wrote:Well in unfortunately not surprising news, the devs are sticking to the BP character generation system. The one that in 2e could produce a 200xp difference (theoretically) and easily 100xp right out of the gate at chapter creation. With the fixes in 2.5 this is not so bad (maybe 50xp); but still strikes me as dumb to put in a newbie trap by design. I'll be house ruling it if I bother to play. It does not give me confidence about the rest of their design methodology.
For reference in 2e, about 4 to 8 xp are supposed to be aware per session.
http://forum.rpg.net/search.php?searchid=811750FatR wrote:Do you have a link? Chung's rant can be pretty entertaining.Longes wrote: Old news. Jon Chung argued for 20 pages with Holden about that on rpg.net half a year ago.
No matchesLonges wrote:http://forum.rpg.net/search.php?searchid=811750FatR wrote:Do you have a link? Chung's rant can be pretty entertaining.Longes wrote: Old news. Jon Chung argued for 20 pages with Holden about that on rpg.net half a year ago.
Read his posts in the "[Exalted] Still no reveal on the new combat rules" thread.
