That's what ECL is for! True Believer is a great feat!

[Roy]

Most relics are inferior to comparable standard magic items. Especially before MIC fixed them.

"Lulz, let's burn a feat and a lot of cash to use a weapon that sucks, and FUCKING KILLS YOU if someone Sundertards it!"

*insert no bear here*

About the best one is Raptor Arrows for the Bane: Anything and indestructible qualities so you can use them to get more special properties. And even then, the fact you need as many arrows as you have attacks per round for it to matter much (and they're 6k each) ends up canceling out most of the cost advantage.

i'm not near my pdfs or the books but raptoran arrows, weren't they a customized item to be returning as well? don't ask me how the writers broke their own rules for that one item.

Yes, they have a special variant of that property. Thing is it makes it 'return to the bowstring' and not to your hand or to your quiver. And it does so at the end of the round. So a literal reading still renders it worthless, because you can only use it for one attack a round, and you can't just get more to shoot more because the arrows won't all go on the string to let you shoot properly. If you can actually get multiple, and shoot multiple they're ok.

[Cynic]

Yes, they have a special variant of that property. Thing is it makes it 'return to the bowstring' and not to your hand or to your quiver. And it does so at the end of the round. So a literal reading still renders it worthless, because you can only use it for one attack a round, and you can't just get more to shoot more because the arrows won't all go on the string to let you shoot properly. If you can actually get multiple, and shoot multiple they're ok.

Now the question to be asked is: if the defender has the feat snatch arrows (methinks non-epic) who should the bear attack? The man who bought the raptoran arrows or the man who spent a feat on a useless feat that works a round and leaves your hands with something in them.

[Roy]

Yes, they have a special variant of that property. Thing is it makes it 'return to the bowstring' and not to your hand or to your quiver. And it does so at the end of the round. So a literal reading still renders it worthless, because you can only use it for one attack a round, and you can't just get more to shoot more because the arrows won't all go on the string to let you shoot properly. If you can actually get multiple, and shoot multiple they're ok.

Now the question to be asked is: if the defender has the feat snatch arrows (methinks non-epic) who should the bear attack? The man who bought the raptoran arrows or the man who spent a feat on a useless feat that works a round and leaves your hands with something in them.

I'm not sure what 'bear' you're referring to. But I'd say they both fucked up.

[Cynic]

Edit: original post fucked up the entire page, just deleted the contents due to hurry. will re-edit with most of the gist later.

[Crissa]

That's why you have one raptoran arrow and the rest return-to-your-hand arrows; that way you can be ready to fire and move...

...Tho honestly, an arrow that returns at the end of your round when you usually want to fire at the end of your round is kinda silly, unless you get to take a move action to up your damage or something (Aimed Shot or some variant?)

Anyhow, I really, really don't know where this conversation is going...

I'm no longer in that specific game, though still gaming with that DM and my character. Apparently they've suffered two tpks since I've left including needing to change the 'dead at -10' rule.

-Crissa

[Roy]

That's why you have one raptoran arrow and the rest return-to-your-hand arrows; that way you can be ready to fire and move...

...Tho honestly, an arrow that returns at the end of your round when you usually want to fire at the end of your round is kinda silly, unless you get to take a move action to up your damage or something (Aimed Shot or some variant?)

Anyhow, I really, really don't know where this conversation is going...

I'm no longer in that specific game, though still gaming with that DM and my character. Apparently they've suffered two tpks since I've left including needing to change the 'dead at -10' rule.

-Crissa

Wait, what? As far as I know, the only way to get returning arrows at all is the Raptor arrows... and really since it's written as 'As Returning, except...' this would probably mean if you move, even five feet they end up on the ground where you were. Which is even worse.

So basically, combo of poor writing and 3.5 nerfing archers of the non Cleric variety. Since Splitting bow spam is about all you can do anyways...