Warhammer D&D

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SunTzuWarmaster
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster »

2d6 Light damage from the Cleric? Come on. Light of Mercuria, much? 4d6 as a ranged touch for a level 2 spell. At the very least, your cleric should be doing double his damage here. If you are only going to do piffly damge, you might as well be throwing down a Sound Burst and forcing a Save vs Stun from both ogres. Way to suck. Get him to take Healing Touch (can heal all of you up to half hp for free), buy a Wand of Lesser Vigor, and never prepare another healing spell.

Tell your wizard to stop sucking at blasting. At the VERY LEAST, he should have prepared a Scorching Ray for 4d6 fire damage as a touch attack. Evocation specialist, right? wtf was his evocation spell today? Flaming Sphere does the same damage a a greatsword (save for 1/2), do a potential multiple creatures. Your 1st level Burning Hands does 4d4 (avg ten) damage (ref half), and Shocking Grasp does 4d6 (no save, touch attack). Burning Hands is at range, and Shocking Grasp has the same range as his greatsword in addition to doing double the damage and requiring a touch attack instead of a melee attack. THIS CHARACTER IS REQUIRED BY THE RULES TO HAVE ONE LEVEL 1 EVOCATION PREPARED. ARGH. Even Magic Missile has the same average damage as a greatsword, doesn't require a to-hit roll, and can be done at range.

Here is a terrible list of blasting spells for your "evocation" wizard that are all better than a greatsword:
level 1 - burning hands, shocking grasp, magic missile, Light of Lunia, Ray of Flame, Sonic Blast. Shocking Grasp for d6/level at a melee range or Ray of Flame (2d6 damage, save or take 1d6/round, ranged touch). are the big wins.
Level 2 - Scorching Ray (4d6, it's like 2 greatswords!), Flaming Sphere (2d6/round, it's like a greatsword every round... for free! Use 2!), Combust (4d8, save or catch fire for 1d6/round), Electric Loop (2d6 save versus stun), Fireburst (4d8, save for half), Light of Mercuria (4d6, 8d6 versus undead or evil outsiders), Snowball Swarm (2d6 damage in a 10' radius), Scorch (4d8 to everyone in a 30' line).

Big wins are Scorch (4d8 to everyone in a 30' line), Flaming Sphere (2d6 as a 5' radius ball every round you can sack a move action), Combust (if target is below 100 lbs :( ), and Scorching Ray (the old 4d6 standby).

Next level you should start seeing Fireball (5d6 in a 30' ball), and Empowered Shocking Grasp (5d6*1.5 = 52 average). If he wants to get clever with it, he can cast Empowered Shocking Grasp every morning, don a rubber glove, then rip it off and turbo-kill a CR 5 monster.

Looking at the other players numbers, I can't figure out why they aren't doing DOUBLE the damage that they are doing (assuming that they don't cast a fucking Save or Die spell like Glitterdust, Shadowspray, or Calm Emotions).

You are level 4 with PBS, Sniper, TWF, Whirlwind, and Horde Breaker....
Next level you need to abuse the crap out of your followers. You need more frontliners in a bad way.

At the current level, you need to be abusing the Problem Solver ability. Also, abuse the crap out of Blitz. Adding BAB to damage can be done with ranged weapons (do it), and has no penalty when used against monsters that are grappling (do it more!). The most readily applicable Problem Solver abuses that I see here are:
Subtle Cut - you could have tacked on 20' of movement damage onto that first arrow (which may have significantly impacted the charge considering he can only charge 20 feet now)
Combat School - +2 to hit/damage never hurts.
Elusive target - +2 AC doesn't hurt (but not as good as Combat School)

I take it that you are using Blitz+PBS for all they are worth (add BAB to damage twice within first range increment)?

With your archery, you should probably be taking Subtle Cut in the first round of combat, slowing one creature and significantly damaging another.

Also, if you really want to start doing damage, you have a solid ace up your sleeve: darts. With your "add BAB twice to damage in the first range increment" and your TWF, you can be belting out 2d4+(2*Str)+8 +16 from your morale pool (+ another 4 from Combat School or 1/2 that much movement damage from Subtle Cut). You could seriously bust out a 37 average damage with 20 movement damage, if you are close enough. This should kill any CR4 monster in 1 round, but no CR 4 monster has 236 hp.

I have a feeling that this monster had the invulnerable subtype until it was about to kill someone, however.
Aktariel
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Post by Aktariel »

Wizard... has a funky spell list. He's "specialized" so I don't know if he can cast anything that isn't straight up fire damage. I'll point those out, though...
I did forget to mention, however, that he did use both Flaming Sphere and Body of the Sun. I don't know about Scorching Ray, if it's allowed or not, and the Rat Ogre was fire immune anyway, which is why he resorted to beating it with his sword.

Same story with the cleric. Strange probably not complete spell list, but I'll throw out some suggestions. Both of these guys are experienced players, but they may or may not take suggestions well., and the DM may or may not allow it.

I don't have Problem Solver. I'm not playing a Tome Fighter, I'm playing a ragular Fighter with a Morale pool and Tome feats. I also don't have Leadership yet, but I'll pick that up as one of my 6th level feats. Blitz... of course I'm using it for ranged attacks. ;) Also, Combat School, Mage Slayer, Ghost Hunter, Great Fortitude, and Iron Will Tome Feats are straight up banned. But everything else is fine.

The DM is seriously retarded. He freely admits that he's a jackass and he takes great pleasure in it. So yeah, it might have been.
Last edited by Aktariel on Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SunTzuWarmaster
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster »

Combat School is banned, but Blitz-PBS is okay?

So.. +2 to attack and damage for one weapon is broken, but +3 to attack +BAB+BAB to damage for all ranged weapons is fine.

Ah, sorry, I didn't know that it was a fire-immune rat ogre... Really? With 200+ hp. Really?

I daresay that this monster was made to counter your party's abilities. The Evoker can't touch it (nearly all low-level evocation is fire), you can't stop it, and the Cleric... doesn't appear to have any meaningful effect anyways.

Nevermind, it looks like your wizard may know what he is doing (well not really, what with the evocation, but you get the idea).
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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Your DM isn't a jackass. He's an asshole.

Because he shits on people's ideas. A jackass is a donkey or fool.

I... tend to be a dick, or a bastard, but I'll never shit on someone "just because".
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Aktariel
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Post by Aktariel »

Judging__Eagle wrote:Your DM is an asshole
Yes. Again, something he freely admits.


Yes, it was a fire immune rat ogre. I think I mentioned that earlier, but my post wasn't very well organized. The other one was supposedly cold immune, but we never got a chance to find out because I killed it.

As to things being broken, or not... he likes to talk a lot and is sure that he knows what he's doing, but I don't necessarily agree with his viewpoints on a number of things, about what is broken or fair, etc.

Tangentially related: I've been introducing Tome to my group (started running a campaign of my own) and one guy took it home and played a Fire Mage, and apparently people got pissed off because it was OMGWTFBBQ broken because "d8 hit die and Fireball at will and all good saves? Really? Really?" Plus it's only fifteen levels, so obviously incomplete.
Last edited by Aktariel on Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SunTzuWarmaster
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster »

I have found that some groups like Tome as a fix, and other groups have an opinion of something like that for every printed class. Also, there are usually some completely unfound attacks against things, like:

"Fireball at level one from a sphere?! That's more powerful than every 1st level spell"

"Giving 6 level sorceror casting as a class ability?! Crazy!"

and my favorite:
"Giving burrow, swim and +50% base land speed as class abilities is broken, especially burrow"
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

SunTzuWarmaster wrote:I have found that some groups like Tome as a fix, and other groups have an opinion of something like that for every printed class. Also, there are usually some completely unfound attacks against things, like:

"Fireball at level one from a sphere?! That's more powerful than every 1st level spell"

"Giving 6 level sorceror casting as a class ability?! Crazy!"

and my favorite:
"Giving burrow, swim and +50% base land speed as class abilities is broken, especially burrow"
ugh, I'm dealing with a friend who's major complaint is the first one you listed... he thinks that all casting classes should get spheres at 1st level and every fifth level...
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
SunTzuWarmaster
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster »

Did you tell him that having 2 different spheres at level 5 will net you a whopping 6 different spells? Or, approximately the same number of different spells as a sorcerer 2 levels below you. Also, that you can actually cast less spells in a day than a wizard or sorcerer or equal level.
Aktariel
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Post by Aktariel »

No game this past week. I'll post an update on Sunday or Monday of next week about the game this Saturday. (That's a difficult tense... I will do something in response to something that hasn't yet happened though I know it will.)

Suggestions are always welcome in the meantime.
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