Warhammer D&D

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Aktariel
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Warhammer D&D

Post by Aktariel »

So, I joined a new campaign today, playing in a Warhammer setting with normal DnD rules. A lot of stuff is either Core melee, and sucktastic, or been hit with the banhammer and therefore sucktastic. I've introduced Tome material to the DM, but I haven't heard back yet. Don't know how he feels, though he did mention that he liked the sound of scaling feats.

Really, this thread was started for two reasons: Report my experience, and solicit feedback/suggestions.


The DM's notes follow:
It has been decided that the campaign setting will be in the Warhammer Fantasy world on the side of order, meaning that your alignment should be Neutral or Good on the good-evil scale. This means that knowing at least rudimentary knowledge of the world would be helpful, but not required.

The Races available will be Human (Empire, Brettonia, Tilean), High Elves (+1 LA), Dwarves (+1 LA), Wood Elves (+1 LA). Because of the differing kind of Humans there will be changes in the ability scores, but the overall human will remain the same.

Empire (+2 Str, -2 Cha)
Brettonia (+2 Str, -2 Wis)
Tilean (+2 Dex, -2 Int)

+High Elves (+2 Int, +2 Cha), Gain Weapon Finesse, All spells cast are at +2 caster lvl
+Wood Elves (+2 Dex, +2 Wis), Gain Weapon Finesse, and Improved Weapon Finesse (damage is based in Dex bonus)
+Dwarves (+4 Con, +2 Str, -2 Cha) SR 1 + HD, Profession (stonecutter), Craft (Engineering), Craft (Weapon/Armorsmithing), Knowledge (Engineering) are class skills

Each Race will have a few special prestige class that will be available at lvl 5+, and Multiclassing can be done at lvl 5+. If you are interested please let me know. The special Presige classes

As for the normal Classes there are some adjustments that will be made, Especially for the Spellcasters. Which is why I will start with the martial classes.

Fighters will remain pretty much the same, except at 1st lvl fighters gain a morale pool, starting with the maximum pool being 1, and increasing by 2 every even level and 3 every odd level. Morale can be used to increase Attack bonus, dodge bonus, damage bonus, for 5 rounds. Each point can be spent individually. At 5th level when fighters spend their morale bonus it affects everyone within a 10ft radius around them. This increases by 10ft every 5 levels. At 10th level the Fighter can spend these points to give +1% miss chance to everyone within their radius for the entire combat.

Barbarians will also be remaining pretty much the same, except that the rage can be channeled, and the Barbarian gains a Rage pool similar to the Fighter, except the Barbarian can use these points to subtract attack bonus (of enemy units around you, this increases in range by 5ft every 5 lvls and for every 5 ranks in Intimidate), add damage bonus to self, and temporarily increase his/her strength bonus by +1 for every 2 points for 5 rounds.

Bards still remain singers, however they do not gain their arcane spells. Rather they gain bonus feats every 3rd level.

Dragon Shamans are not available b/c the dragons of the Warhammer universe are not quite as noble as they normally are.

Duskblades will still be available, however, they will be available to elves or those who are promised to the specific colleges, and will undergo spellcasting changes, however the abilities the duskblade gains is still the same.

Hexblades are only available to Chaos

Knights will remain the same, except they are only available to humans.

Monks also will remain the same except that when they gain at lvl 16 the ability to snatch bullets/deflect them with their bare hands (adamantine). They lose Knowledge (arcana) and gain Knowledge (history).

Ninjas will not be available as Cathy will not be accessable.

Paladins (Knight Templars) will not be available until lvl 5, and will keep their spellcasting abilities, use the Prestige Paladin as the use for becoming a paladin, except there will be certain abilities granted to those who become devoted to a specific church, like Sigmar, Mor, ... Also see Clerics for the changes in Turning.

Rangers will lose their Pet as well as their spellcasting abilities. In exchange they gain favored enemies & favored terrains each time they might gain a favored enemy. Also if going Ranged style mastery, the ranger increases his range with his weapon by 30ft at improved combat style, and an additional 60ft at Combat style mastery. For 2 weapon fighting style he increases the crit chance by +1 and crit bonus by 1. Rangers can choose to allowcate the spent skill point in knowledge (nature) to their favored enemies (every 2 points count as an additional +1) and every spent skill in survival to their favored terrain (every 2 points count as an additional +1).

Rogues will remain the same, except they gain full BAB procession (fighters BAB), and gain Knowledge (all skills taken individually, except arcana). Rogues often make the best Witch Hunters if they are zealous enough

Scouts will also remain the same.

Samurais will also not be available as Cathy will not be accessable

Wu Jens will also not be available as Cathy will not be accessable

Swordsages, Warblades, Crusaders, Binders, Shadowcasters, Warlocks, Truenamers, and Favored Souls will not be available

As it pretains to the casters, essentially all of the casters are being combined into one, as the magic system of the Warhammer setting all come from the 8 winds of chaos. If you are planning to play a spellcasting class see me personally for the spells that are castable via the different schools. Dwarves do not practice magic, as using it it forbidden except for the Chaos Dwarves, and slowly turns them into stone statues. I will lay out the basics of each of the classes here though. Magic users all suffer from the chance of something very bad happening. All spells involve rolling percentile die, and rolling a 1 or a 2 can cause very bad things to happen.

Clerics will be devoted to a specific god, and gain their domains from those gods still. Also what spells they gain access to depend also upon the god that they worship. Also they do not gain the ability to turn the undead, rather they turn chaos taint, and gain the ability to sense it. Clerics gain the ability to turn Daemons.

Wizards/Sorcerors do not change except they also only get spells from their specific college that they attend. They do gain differing benefits as well depending on what college they attend.

Druids are essentially the same as Wizards/Sorcerors, litterally, the druids 1 of 2 schools, those dealing with life and those dealing with beasts. Those dealing with Beasts (Ghur) will get their ability to transform into animals as well as summon animals. Those dealing with life (Ghyran) will get spellcasting

The Winds of Magic are:
Hysh - The White Wind - Collegiate of Light - Light
Chamon - The Yellow Wind - The Gold Order - Metal
Ghyran - The Green Wind - The Jade Order - Life
Azyr - The Blue Wind - The Celestial Order - Heavans
Ulgu - The Grey Wind - The Grey Order - Shadow
Shyish - The Purple Wind - The Amethyst Order - Death
Aqshy - The Red Wind - The Bright Order - Fire
Ghur - The Brown Wind - The Amber Order - Beasts

For the specific spells and changes to the body and new abilities gained by the different winds, please tell me. Also for High Elves there is an additional Magic source Qhaysh - The Silver Wind - High Magic and it has its own special benefits and is only accessable by Elven Wizards. And Dwarves have runes, for the benefits and the use of Runes talk to me if you want to use them.

Also keep in mind that especially for humans and dwarves (more dwarves than humans) that technology of equal value to the power of magic is indistinguishable from each other.
So, I can play a crappy fighter or barbarian with guaranteed hits, or a shitty caster with specialization that has no other real benefits, and get fucked up the ass by the percentile failure roll. Suggestions?

Random thoughts: magic items are low. So wish economy tricks, builds centering around items, etc, are out.

Basically, I need high guaranteed damage, and in this case, a Rogue, having full BAB, might not be too bad. The DM was ok with the Tome fighter, but thought that some of the scaling feats are broken, and wasn't happy about the Tome Fighter having all good saves.

We're starting at level 3, so I have some wiggle room, especially with LA, etc.
Last edited by Aktariel on Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Play a caster, maybe the catastrophic failure will be amusing. OR play a ranger, and have fun with your gigantic favored enemy bonuses.
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Post by TOZ »

Except after the first couple get mulched, your favored enemies will suddenly become endangered species I think. Judging by the sound of this game. Of course, FE: Human is always a good bet.
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster »

Human (or Strongheart Halfling if you can) Full BAB Rogue with Tome Feats. Yes. Here are the feats that you take, in order:
1 - Two Weapon Fighting
1 - Weapon Finesse
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS

Dex > Int > Con
Cha/Wis/Str are pretty unneccessary

At level one, you are making 2 attacks at
DEX+3 (better than a fighter can hope for, you should always hit consistently, and these can be thrown weapons)
WEAPON + d6 + STR

Yay! You have ~4 better to hit than a fighter (18 Dex), and double-quadruple the damage. You now take feats like Ghost Step and Stealthy because you are that awesome.
--------------------------------------------------------------

You have one other choice. You go Elven Wizard (assuming Elf magic is better than everyone else's magic), and do the Color Spray Longbow build.
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Post by Orion »

Wow...

Bards with no spells --that's a massive failure of a character right there

Monks get deflect bullets at LEVEL SIXTEEN. How can you even write that sentence without realizing your setting obviates the one legitimately useful ability low-level monks get?
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Post by Ganbare Gincun »

Isn't there an actual Warhammer Fantasy RPG floating around out there? And is it any good?
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Post by Aktariel »

SunTzuWarmaster wrote:Human (or Strongheart Halfling if you can) Full BAB Rogue with Tome Feats. Yes. Here are the feats that you take, in order:
1 - Two Weapon Fighting
1 - Weapon Finesse
NOTHING ELSE MATTERS

Dex > Int > Con
Cha/Wis/Str are pretty unneccessary

At level one, you are making 2 attacks at
DEX+3 (better than a fighter can hope for, you should always hit consistently, and these can be thrown weapons)
WEAPON + d6 + STR
I was thinking full BAB rogue with as many Tome feats as I could grab, yes. We;re starting at 3, so I was thinking Wood Elf, since I get Improved Weapon Finesse (non-Tome ) at first level. Downside: I have to eat 1 LA.

+2 Dex +2 Wis, Dex to Attack and Damage... Wood Elf "1" Rogue 2. With Tome TWF and... shortswords. Then perhaps seeing if I can buyoff the LA, and go Monk 1/Kung Fu Genius for the Int to AC.

So... +6 to hit, then 2d6+5 and 2d6+5, for a max of 34, and an average of 24. Not too shabby for an opening round, assuming flat-footedness, 20 Dex, and Tome TWF. Also, Dex of +5 and leather armor nets me AC of 17. Not terrible.
Last edited by Aktariel on Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by koz »

Ganbare Gincun wrote:Isn't there an actual Warhammer Fantasy RPG floating around out there? And is it any good?
It does exist, and is of dubious quality. That said, the revised edition of it is a lot less stupid, probably because the crunch wasn't largely written by GW staff, who couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag.
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Post by Username17 »

Ganbare Gincun wrote:Isn't there an actual Warhammer Fantasy RPG floating around out there? And is it any good?
As Mr. Sinister said: "Yes" and "mmgmhghgm..."

WHFRP (Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay) is a real system and it really is set for that setting already. It's kind of like playing feudal Paranoia - which seems to be the intent anyway. Things in general are incredibly lethal, so if you don't have a ranged weapon you can choke on a penis made of death. Therefore Hobbits are the master race, making it I suspect the only game ever written where that is true.

There's an incredibly complex system of jumping from career to career through character advancement that does not matter because you will never play a game long enough to graduate from being a Grave Robber to being a Tomb Robber.

Still, the revised edition is more fun than hammering a nail into your dick, which is more than I can say for trying to convert the D&D rules to the starkly tiered and horrendously depressing Warhammer Fantasy universe.

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Post by Koumei »

WHFRP is pretty awful for someone expecting a D&D experience. You die easily. All the time, in fact. And generally, characters start at "Apprentice to the Novice boot-polisher of the knight's squire". Yeah, some games say "You're a knight", others say "you're a squire but may become a knight", this game says "There are knights, and they're better than you will ever be. How about the Shit-shoveler class, that's right up your alley."
FrankTrollman wrote: Still, the revised edition is more fun than hammering a nail into your dick, which is more than I can say for trying to convert the D&D rules to the starkly tiered and horrendously depressing Warhammer Fantasy universe.
And to think that's the happiest that universe ever reaches - to paraphrase/quote-by-memory one of the novels, where a character described a nightmare they had:

"Was it the future? A world clouded in darkness, with war everywhere, no end to the struggle, the death, the suffering... in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war?"
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Post by Prak »

ok, someone's gotta ask it....

Why the fuck would you ever want to play in that world? I mean, I like grim dark stuff and all, and I can understand the wargame, since you're more like a general if you really get down to it, by why the fuck would you want to roleplay in it?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Aktariel »

Because it's the only game I can join? No, wait, you meant in general. Erm... because it's grim and dark and shit? Which means that you can have grim and dark heroes? Which means that you feel even better about kicking ass, because it means you don't suck quite as badly as everybody else? Triumphs are magnified because there are so few?

Or, the flipside, because you're emo and depressing and like orcs better than modern werewolves. (AKA don't want to play nWOD.)
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

Prak_Anima wrote:Why the fuck would you ever want to play in that world? I mean, I like grim dark stuff and all, and I can understand the wargame, since you're more like a general if you really get down to it, by why the fuck would you want to roleplay in it?
Because you like movies like Flesh + Blood or The Last Valley, but can't play an RPG without elves in it.
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Post by Prak »

well, I guess the question more pertains to the "official" WHFRPG, where you're the apprentice to the novice shit-shoveler... I mean, what the fuck?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Username17 »

It goes like this: imagine you want to be a Wizard. Wizard is a prestige class. Well, it's actually a chain of prestige classes. As a starting character you are a "student." Becoming an "apprentice wizard" is a prestige class you can take after you've leveled up as a Student. Becoming a "journeyman wizard" is a prestige class you can take after you level up as an apprentice. If you level up as a journeyman wizard, you can get into Master Wizard. Then you get the "Master Wizard Theme Song." Except you don't, because that would involve having survived in the Warhammer universe when you began life with a notebook and no spells.

Similarly, let's say you wanted to be an Assassin. Before that you need to be a Spy, before that you need to be a camp follower or a servant. Seriously.

The actual starting careers are seriously things like Boatman, Rat Catcher, Grave Robber, Servant, and Minstrel. Some people get to have relatively useful careers like Pick Pocket or Thug. But by and large you're supposed to be happy if your starting career leaves you with enough money to actually afford a weapon. Otherwise you're supposed to complete your first mission hitting enemies with a stick.

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Prak
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Post by Prak »

so why not just use a different system? one where your character is assumed to have survived the world long enough to become what he actually wants to be? Like D&D (without raping the various classes) or maybe Runequest?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster »

Heh.

Gravedigger is OP! I can't believe something like that made it through testing! They get to start with a weapon!
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Post by Koumei »

I think you mean Grave Robber. Here's the difference:

Grave Digger: http://www.davidandgavinhoffman.com/pho ... igger4.jpg

(Or the fantastic attack by Testament in GGXX#R)

Grave Robber: http://www.altfg.com/Stars/r/repo-the-g ... dunich.jpg
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Post by angelfromanotherpin »

Prak_Anima wrote:so why not just use a different system? one where your character is assumed to have survived the world long enough to become what he actually wants to be? Like D&D (without raping the various classes) or maybe Runequest?
The same reason you don't play Paranoia with a competent non-brainwashed non-mutant non-traitorous character. Struggling with serious limits against an arbitrary and uncaring and lethal world is the whole point.

Now, some people are going to show up and crack the book wanting to play Teclis and Tyrion leading an assault against Naggarond, and they are going to be deeply disappointed, because this is not that game. But if the game were named: A Slice of Warhammer Fantasy: Pathos at the Bottom, fewer people would buy it.

It's much more a British thing than it is an American one.
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Post by Prak »

I guess, but in my mind there's a difference between struggling and being Sisyphus.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by cthulhu »

It would be slightly more tolerable if the system was good or irrelevant (like paranoia), but its clunky as all get up and gets in the way of everything.

So unlike paranoia, where playing an incompetent garbage man is really quick and results in you getting hilariously blown up in a 5 minutes, 15 at the outside, being an incompetent garbage man and getting mugged in a grim and dark senseless alley killing by some cultist in WFRPG takes a solid 5 sessions.

Which is annoying.
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Post by Aktariel »

Ok. So, I've been a little remiss in posting updates, but here goes.

First Session 9 days ago, mostly creating characters. Only played for maybe an hour and a half.

We started out in the capital city, and met up in the docks because there were rumors of heretics and cultists down there, and the witchunters might have been offering bounty.

Three players, at level 3:
Me, a human Fighter with RoW scaling feats (PBS, Sniper, TWF, Whirlwind, and Horde Breaker.)
A human cleric of sigmar (basically your vanilla cleric with a "battle" theme or flavor). Mostly just being the heal bitch.
Lastly, a human bright wizard, focused on evocation/fire/direct damage.

So, down in the docks, we checked out a rumor of a shipment of plagued grain, and the cleric detected chaos on the storekeeper and he had chaos in him. Cleric attacked, tried to grapple, failed. I readied an arrow, and when the storekeeper turned around, let loose. 13 or so damage (composite greatbow, d10+5 STR +3 within 60ft.). Wizard tried to set him on fire, did some small damage, but was apparently kind of fireproof (duh). Turned out to be a Level 6 Khorne berserker. Of course, it fell to me to TWF his ass to death with my dual bastard swords, which I did. I dropped from 38 to 15 HP, then kicked his ass and the cleric healed me back to mostly full health. Then, the wizard used Body of the Sun to set the grain on fire after we got to a safe distance.

Whoops. Released a huge fucking plague cloud, sickened and diseased the wizard. In the haze, we saw an armored warrior and a ratman meet in the cloud, shake hands, and part ways. End of session.


Session Two: Wizard in the plague cloud, cloud expanding. Nergling attached to the wizard, who tried to set it on fire. I was ~70ft away, tried to drop a lasso of rope over the wizard. No dice. Nergling bit the wizard, he got even sicker. Managed to burn it for 38 fire, since it was fire susceptible, but didn't die.

I finally said "fuck this" pulled out a bow, made an attack roll easily, fired an arrow with rope attached through the wizards arm, and began to pull her out. (it's a dude roleplaying a female character). Drag her out at 30ft/rnd, cloud expands at 10ft/rnd.

Random other shit: we finally got the wizard out, after she burned the nergling, but she was hallucinating and only conscious 20% of the time, and when she was awake, she was at -8. (DM special plague rules) We also saw the "armored warrior" head towards the ship with more plagued grain and disappear, and the ratman drop into the sewers.

Dragged the wizard to the temple, had two-three days of downtime, healed to full health, wizard recovered fully. We leveled.

Level Four: Expedition to the Sewers. There were rumors of Skaven in the sewers, and when the grain exploded we saw a ratman appear in the cloud, then go down to the sewers. Hired a ranger with favored enemy Skaven, favored terrain sewers, as a guide.

Really long ass fight in the sewers: Mowed through a crapton of meatshields (literally a dozen ratmen with 25HP each.) Wizard and I each killed four, the ranger killed two, the cleric got one, and the one of the rat ogres killed two. My numbers aren't exact, since this was two days ago.

Which brings me to the rat ogres. Huge fucking things with lots of HP. I managed to kill one with TWF - first dual hit was 48 damage, and the second was a lucky critical for 76-odd. It dropped.

Then the second one had some sort of bullshit Overrun/Bullrush/Trample thing, and it had lots of Strength and was raging. Pushed us all into the sewer wall, and then it was time to go to work. It was fire immune, so the wizard was useless except to attack one per round with her 2d6+d6 flaming greatsword.

I TWF'd, hit it every round twice except one, in which I missed with one. I took a lot of damage (51 HP at Lvl 4), got healed back up, dropped to 0, made another TWF attack, and didn't kill it. It grappled the ranger, and was going to bite it's head off.

There was a huge argument with the DM about grappling rules and Improved Grab and biting heads off as swift actions and pinning, the upshot of which was the ranger was grappled and pinned in one round, but not killed. The ranger then punched the Ogre for 7 points of unarmed damage, which killed it. It took more than 260 damage before it died.

We dragged our sorry asses out of the sewer, and called it a night.


Questions Concerns Comments Etc?
Last edited by Aktariel on Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster »

Having a bitch of a time finding something with over 200 hp below CR 16.

You are level 5?

Seriously, congratulations.
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Post by Lago PARANOIA »

Aktariel was obviously fighting a Bullshit Dire Bear reskinned as an ogre.
Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Aktariel »

I am level four. :D HP 51 AC 19 STR 21 DEX 18 CON 16.

And a bit of a powergamer... but seriously, Tome feats are carrying the day. With a four feat investment, I am both a melee and ranged powerhouse, which is good because no one else apparently is. I suspect I'm still screwed at higher levels, but we'll see.

Wasn't all me, but seriously... was mostly me. Got off an arrow for 23 damage as it charged us, and then went to town on it for three rounds with TWF. Morale bonuses help. (In this game, fighters have a "morale pool" that they can spend to increase attack or damage or saves for a number of rounds equal to X, where X is half the number of points you spend.) Level four gives you 8.

I burned them all to increase my damage by eight for every hit... but still. It took a fuckton of grinding. Everyone else contributed, but not much. I think the wizard got off one 2d6 greatsword attack before being smacked to -2, the cleric tried to deal 2d6 light damage and succeeded but only rolled 7 damage, and the ranger hit it twice - once for 26 and the second time after being grappled for 7 unarmed to finish it.

Also, I looked up the numbers again, and it was only in fact 236 HP. My bad.

The first ogre had somewhere between fifty and 130 HP, probably closer to 130. (I hit it once for 48 and again for 76, whereupon it died.)

Any suggestions to increase my combat effectiveness? If the ranger hadn't punched it, I might have killed it before it killed me. Maybe. Maybe not. 0 HP does not make a happy Fighter.
Last edited by Aktariel on Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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