The Gaming Den

To those of you that don't know me, I am glad to be here and look forward to discussing things with you. Well met and all that.

To those that do...

Right so, I feel I have been lurking here long enough and have more than once wanted to drop a thing or two into the conversation but always decided against it. Somehow the timing never seemed right. In the end a couple of things happened to drive me to join up. First and by far the most insidious, was the arrival of the Denizens at Paizo. I guess you could say that Frank's coming there was like (to misappropriate Tolkien) "a falling of small stones that starts an avalanche in the mountains". You see, I care deeply about this game and after playing it for now almost since its inception, was somewhat blind to its many failings. I had been by the Den before to lurk, but I admit I never really paid attention to the points being raised; the posting style was not suitable to me and so I disregarded the message. But when I read the posts by Frank and K and ckafrica and the others on Paizo, I began to see what many here already see within the rules. I think I was stubbornly trying not to see for a while, but eventually it became very clear. And then, I started to get pissed off. I came back here in earnest and read the Tomes and listened a great deal. So I am here because this forum is the place to talk with rules experts about the underpinnings of the game and finding ways to make it better. I don't agree with everything rules-wise here, but this to me is the place to get ideas tested and to refine thinking on the changes that are needed in the rules. There are other places that try to do the same thing, but I think the expertise is concentrated here. So, here I am.

The second reason I decided to join up was the "Call for an Anti-Trolling" rule thread. Don't get me wrong, I am not in support of such a rule. In fact, that thread and the comments therein made it clear that to participate in the Den meant to play by the Den's rules. That is something I hesitated to do in the past because it isn't my style, but I accept as tuition for participation here.

Back to lurking, for now.

I faintly remember you and Frank having it out over at Paizo.

Anyway, that's pretty much the right attitude to have around here. Don't pay attention to the graphic language if you're sensitive to it, and look at the words in the rest of the paragraph. Don't get discouraged if someone says it's an awful idea--ask them if they can see a way to make it better.

It also helps to have some clearly-formed ideas about what you believe to be balance or what kind of game you want to have.

Wait, all those witch hunts about how K and I were ruining the game by talking about flaws and now you want our help? Sure.

Holding grudges doesn't help anyone. Welcome aboard.

-Username17

I remember you. Crusader of Logic here. In any case, I don't have a problem with you if you don't with me.

Frank and Roy's attitudes, and now my fortune cookie*, settle it.

Good to have you hear and willing to listen (and debate) with us.








*"Ignorance never settles a question"

Thanks to all of you for the welcome. I have no personal issues whatsoever with anyone here (or I guess I wouldn't be here) and fully admit I was wrong in my thinking about certain underlying game concepts. I consider myself lucky to have had my eyes opened (even if such revelation came while I was kicking and screaming) and am now engaged in a voracious search for knowledge and understanding in order to make the games I currently run fundamentally better. In fact they are already better because of what I learned from the Tomes and lurking about. I have a great deal to learn and little to teach, but I have always been a quick study, so I hope to be contributing more than I take eventually.

I look forward to seeing you all in-thread.

Good to have you, Lich Loved.

Game On,
fbmf

Heh, this place just seems full of very pissed off people who found that the rules of the game just wasn't actually allowing players to play the games that they want to play.

Welcome here.

Good to have you here, Lich-loved. Having been in your position once, it's not an easy thing to admit nor an easy place to be. But you've made the right choice, so good on ya, and welcome to TGD.

Welcome aboard. Why do I feel like your avatar should be the official board logo?

If its brought you here, than all that bitching and railing on Paizo was worthwhile. We're kind of like evangelicals that way

ckafrica wrote:If its brought you here, than all that bitching and railing on Paizo was worthwhile. We're kind of like evangelicals that way

And now I feel dirty. Thanks ck.

Welcome aboard LL.

Just don't tell us about how you qualified for the Lich-loved feat* and we're all good. Welcome.

*I'm aware that it states sentient undead, I'm not making accusations of real-life necrophilia. But liches and wights are still icky.

Judging__Eagle wrote:Heh, this place just seems full of very pissed off people who found that the rules of the game just wasn't actually allowing players to play the games that they want to play.

Welcome here.

Plus Fucking One. Though there was a lot of other steps between 'realizing beatsticks fail at beatsticking and everything else in D&D 3.5 among other things' and 'coming here after mostly learning what to do about it on my own or from others, and then having shit confirmed/corrected/etc from there'.

My entire stint on Paizo could also be summarized as 'the game doesn't fucking do what you want it to do, here's how you fix that'.

Roy wrote: Plus Fucking One. Though there was a lot of other steps between 'realizing beatsticks fail at beatsticking and everything else in D&D 3.5 among other things' and 'coming here after mostly learning what to do about it on my own or from others, and then having shit confirmed/corrected/etc from there'.

For 30 years+ I played the game and became pretty good at the game and never spent a great deal of time thinking about why the game ran like it did. I just made a lot of assumptions and went on my way. It took time for me because I never thought about the game's design before; I just took a great deal for granted. For the last couple of years I had a growing sense of dissatisfaction that I attributed to burn out, but really it was the problems with the game that were becoming too obvious not to see. And then you lot provided some ideas that I could euphemistically say were planted but were really hmm "forcefully inserted subcutaneously" by yourself, Frank, PR and the rest to finally see what the underlying problems were. Those ideas took root and things have never been the same. It all seems pretty clear now and I wonder how I missed it for so long, but now that it is clear, I want to make it better. And in a way I am angry that I could have been playing a much better game for the last 5+ years, a game that wasn't so predetermined and stale after 8th level or so.

I've run a weekly group for the last 8 years consistently, but over time, I dropped from 8 players to 4; all of these guys are older than me and I think they just had "wizard/cleric" fatigue; the game is pretty predetermined after a certain point and we were just going through the motions. Since I have been making changes at the table (notably boosting fighters, stealing this and that from the Tomes, mostly philosophy) I have had a steady increase of players and am now back to 7 fulltime and consistent players and a waiting list for others that want in.

To me, that says that the ideas and especially the philosophy here, are things that make the game better. And that what this is all about, making it better to keep the game alive.

Precisely. Now to work on converting the others. I should conscript you as a subordinate Crusader.

Welcome Lich-Loved. Glad you noticed the same things I did. The Den is not the horrible place people over there seem to think. I mean, Roy hardly ever flies off the handle!

TOZ wrote:Welcome Lich-Loved. Glad you noticed the same things I did. The Den is not the horrible place people over there seem to think. I mean, Roy hardly ever flies off the handle!