Summoner Tome Feats

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Prak
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Summoner Tome Feats

Post by Prak »

I wrote these up for Kaelik in my PbP game, he wants to play a summoner but despairs at the prospect of having to choose between tome feats with nothing for summoners, or normal "sucky feats". He says he can take Easy Metamagic, Arcane Thesis, Broker of the Infernal, Repeat Spell and Metamagic School Focus and summon two (or four, not sure) cohorts. So I took these feats and rolled them into a couple tome style feats. I just can't figure out a few last effects, other than letting him choose some metamagic feats, so any suggestions?

Easy Metamagic (metamagic)
Benefit: Whenever you apply a metamagic feat, other than heighten spell, to a spell, it’s spell level is increased by one less level.
1: Choose a school of magic. Whenever you apply metamagic to a spell of that school it takes a spell slot one level lower than normal.
3: Choose one spell as your thesis spell. When casting that spell you do so at +2 caster level, and when applying metamagic to that spell it uses up a spell slot one level lower than normal. You may write a new thesis (and thus gain these benefits to a new spell) whenever you gain access to a new level of spell.
6: ???
9: ???

Enhanced Summoning
Benefit: whenever you cast a spell of the (summoning) subschool, the resulting creature possesses the elite array (placed with the highest to lowest natural ability scores, ie, a summoned succubus has a 15 charisma before racial bonuses). Also, add all conjuration spells to your class spell list. For wizards, add all conjuration spells to your spell book, for casters with known spells, add all conjuration spells to your spells known. For a class with some other arrangement that boils down to "you have this specific set of spells from your class list available to you" add all conjuration spells to that list.
1: When you cast a conjuration spell, you may choose to cast it as a Repeat spell. A repeated spell is automatically cast again at the beginning of your next turn in the following round. The second casting originates in the same location. A repeated spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell's actual level.
3: When you possess the true name of a creature, you may summon it using the Summon Monster spell. To do this, you must cast Summon Monster using a spell slot of appropriate level for the creature's CR (see below). For all effects, this spell is a summoning spell, and functions as if the creature were a summoned monster, but if killed the creature is dead as normal and cannot be summoned again until it is returned from the dead.
Summon LevelCreature CR
11/2 or less
21-2
32-3
43-4
54-5
65-6
76-7
87-9
99-13

6: When you cast a conjuration spell, you may choose to cast it as a Twinned spell. A twinned spell takes effect twice, summoning double the normal number of creatures. Any variable characteristics or decisions you would make about the spell are applied to both spells (unless you are summoning a specific creature, then you get two specific creatures.) A twinned spell uses up a spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell's actual level.
9: When you cast a spell from the summoning subschool, you can choose to grant the summoned creature the benefit of any spell of 6th level or lower you can cast that has a range of touch. You cast the spell you wish to grant the creature (using a spell slot) at the same time you cast your summoning spell. The creature gains the benefit of the spell when it appears. If the summoning spell is Twinned or Repeated, the Imbuing spell is as well. An imbued summoning spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.

Summon (Whatever) Variant
Just make Summon (Whatever) a single spell for its type (ie, Summon Monster, Summon Nature's Ally, etc. are individual spells), that can be prepared/cast from a slot of any level. So, Summon Monster is a first level spell that summons a creature from the Summon Monster I list, but you can also cast it from a second level spell slot to get a creature from the Summon Monster II list. Fuck that "nine variations of the same fucking spell" noise.
Last edited by Prak on Sun Aug 13, 2023 4:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
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Bigode
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Post by Bigode »

If you're gonna go with remade scaling feats, write them out - and no "select feat" crap. But what I'd say's that it likely makes more sense to scale at level 6 instead of 5 (as Manxome did).
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Prak
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Post by Prak »

the select feat crap is a place holder, more or less, because I couldn't figure out what else the feats should do.

I just c/ped the levels, I think, but yeah, level 6 makes more sense.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster »

Balance issues?

If I am reading Easy Metamagic correctly, at level 5 it is:
- any metamagic cost is reduced by 1 (free Sclupt, Extend, Silent Still, and a few others)
- any metamagic cost for <school of your choice> is reduced by 1
- any metamagic cost for <spell of your choice> is reduced by 1

So, for example, an illusionist with Quicken Spell as a 5th level bonus feat that has selected Easy Metamagic can throw out a Quickened Silent Image as a level 2 spell. Alternatively, a 5th level Evoker can throw down Maximized Fireballs at no cost, and Empowered <all other evoker spells> at no cost (other than feat investment).

Um, it seems a bit much. If you had made a feat that said "All your evocations spells count as Empowered", I could see you making a case for Evocation being underpowered yada yada yada, but Easy Metamagic was a good feat in 3.5 (it lost some lust in Tome). This appears... over the top.

"When you possess the true name of a creature, you may summon the Summon Monster spell"
Rephrase to make sense.

"When you cast a spell from the summoning subschool, you can choose to grant the summoned creature the benefit of any spell of 6th level or lower you can cast that has a range of touch."
Did you mean "Any single spell of 6th level". This could easily mean "burn up all of your level <6 buff spells right now!"
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Post by Bigode »

Prak, that's the thread closest to in-topic here - sorry if it's a problem. Found that thread on a Google accident, since the embedded search sucks.
Kaelik, at BG, wrote:At level 4, a challenge that should drain 20% of our resources is going to be 4 Tome Fighters, all level 1. So if one of those Tome fighters can kill my cohort, while one engages each of you, and then my level 2 spell finishes him off. Now I have exactly 3 remaining casts of spells that actually matter. Also, I suck. This is what is known as significantly more then 20% of my resources.
That's actually CR 5, and your average party level's lower than 1, because you're a "party" of 1, not 4. If we were talking about 3 level 1 fighters, it'd be CR 4 - let's call that "your APL + 4"; then it's something you should go 50/50 against and basically the only thing you're supposed to fight for the day. So you alone dying against 4 level 1 fighters actually shows things to be working right.
Last edited by Bigode on Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
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Post by Ice9 »

Applying the elite array is a bit fiddly, and most of it has little effect. "Summoned creatures gain +4 to two stats of your choice" has a very similar effect that can be more quickly figured into stats.

And yeah, Easy Metamagic seems a bit excessive. Even if we assume that it never makes costs negative, it means that you're getting tons of free metamagic on most of your spells. Doesn't tossing out Split Empowered Enervating Fell-Weakening Enervations at no extra cost seem somewhat overkill?
Last edited by Ice9 on Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Casters don't need that kind of a boost. Sudden metamagic feats should probably be enough.
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Post by Bigode »

It's possible, and the particular feats might scale too well, but on objecting to scaling feats themselves, please consider Manxome's argument.
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
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Post by CatharzGodfoot »

Bigode wrote:It's possible, and the particular feats might scale too well, but on objecting to scaling feats themselves, please consider Manxome's argument.
I'm not objecting to scaling feats. I'm objecting to Easy Metamagic and Enhanced Summoning, both of which give free metamagic to an absurd degree.
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster »

Yea, I follow the branch of "metamagic already scales." It is not like Weapon focus where a +1 to hit roll becomes more and more irrelevant. A +1 Metamagic cost can always be applied to your highest-level spell with the sacrifice of power.

Also, I tend to be against the "My character wants to be able to do X Y and Z, so here is a scaling feat that gives all of them." Also, feats that are hard to use suck (recalculate all of a monsters stats!).

How about:
Rapid Summoning
0 - Your summon spells that have a duration of 1 round take a standard action. Any conjuration (summoning) spell that takes longer than that takes 50% of the original time.
1 - If you prepare spells, you may spontaneously cast a conjuration (summoning) spell in any prepared slot. If you can already spontaneously cast summoning spells, you may cast a conjuration (summoning) spell during any part of a move action.
3 - You may cast a conjuration(summoning) spell as a Quickened spell at a +2 spell level cost.
6 - When trading downward summoning spells, you may get 1d4+1 creatures off of the appropriate spell of one level lower and 2d4+2 creatures of a spell two levels lower (instead of the normal 1d3 and 1d4+1)
9 - You may summon any creature of which you know its true name as a spell of level equal to 1/2 of it's CR. If the CR of the creature is above 18, this is counted as a level 9 spell and takes 10 combat rounds.
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Kaelik
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Re: Summoner Tome Feats

Post by Kaelik »

Since Rad is harrassing me and saying these were feats invented for me, I am pointing out that no feat should ever add 400 spells known. Do not write a feat that adds all spells of a specific school as spells known or to the class list. Or even to a spellbook because that's really bad dumpster diving, even if isn't too powerful.

edit: to be clear, it is too powerful adding to spells known or class list.
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