Ranger Re-Done?

[ZER0]

So, I'm looking to write up a Ranger class along similar lines to the Paladin found here. What I mean is, instead of having spellcasting, I'd like a class that uses extraordinary, supernatural, and possibly spell-like abilities to augment martial prowess. Here's part of what I'm looking for.

BAB: Full. It's still a martial class.

Hit Die and Armour: d8 and light. No shields. We're not looking for a tank, we want a stealthy offensive specialist.

Skill Points and class skills: 6 a level, with all monster-identification skills. Otherwise the same as normal.

Saves: Not sure what to do with these. I was thinking good Reflex and Will, with an ability at some point to give resistance/immunity to poisons and natural disease.

Abilities: I was thinking mostly extraordinary abilities, since those are generally Constitution-based. Possibly Dexterity-based instead. Also, two-weapon fighting as a bonus feat and archery-related abilities. Finally, a replacement for Favoured Enemy, below.

Hunter's Knowledge: If a Ranger can spend a swift action to attempt to identify a creature currently in combat with him. Make an monster identification check as normal. If successful, the Ranger gains a +2 insight bonus to hit and damage against the creature, as well as a bonus 1d6 damage per (2 levels? 3?). If a Ranger is facing a creature of a kind that he has previously identified, the DC of this roll is reduced by 10.

I dunno. Could work, might not. Need help determining proper balance for that.

Let me know if you've got some ideas. Thanks in advance.

[Elennsar]

If you use Average saves, then I would give Rangers Average Will but keep Good Fort and Reflex.

Rangers as more Will than Fort doesn't feel right.

Why keep the two weapon fighting as a "ranger combat style"?

I mean, if you want "can pick any combat style he likes", doing that would be much better.

Uncanny dodge is probably fitting.

Otherwise, no thoughts coming from the top of my head, but this could be quite interesting.

[Maxus]

We've all done this, I'm sure, but the Ranger's tough to nail a hard concept to, because his official job (patrolling the edges of civilization to keep normal people safe from the Unknown Terrors Beyond) could be done by a Fighter with the right skills and feats.

Except mechanically, people want him to be a kind of scout/skirmisher who, should he run into trouble, could plausibly take down a couple of attackers before his reinforcements arrive.

I am fond of the idea of the Ranger having access to animal backup of some kind, in no small part because of Guenhwyvar from the Drizzt books. That cat's pretty awesome.

Now, I could see a ranger getting stealthy stuff to help him set up an ambush on the enemies, especially when paired with his animal companion. Say, he and the companion sneak into position, the rest of the party engages, and then Ranger and Pet wait a few seconds, then join the fight. Whatever.

Also, there is a problem with Rangers usually being most effective on their home turf--the area where they know every tree by its first name, and ask the rocks about the health of their mothers. I'd fully expect someone trying to invade a ranger's favored territory to pay hell. But what does he do when he's in unfamiliar ground?

[Cynic]

I still like the idea of mixing up the ranger with the specific abilities of the Horizon Walker.

Just fold in the bonuses of the Walker into the ranger at each level. Of course, this gives him a planar feel and I don't know how to reconcile that factor.

Also for having the ranger be on unknown land, I think it shouldn't matter.

As a spell-like, how about giving him that Druid spell (lay of hte land) or whatever it is. Spend a couple of rounds and you know the lay of hte land to X-miles/level.

[TarkisFlux]

I still like the idea of mixing up the ranger with the specific abilities of the Horizon Walker.

Just fold in the bonuses of the Walker into the ranger at each level. Of course, this gives him a planar feel and I don't know how to reconcile that factor.

Thanks for that Cynic, that's not a bad idea at all. The planar feel is probably fine if you restrict the planar abilities to the same level range a horizon walker could get them on its own (11+ish). By that time casters have already been travelling to other planes if they wanted anyway, and most of the abilities could be re-flavored but relevant anyway.

[ZER0]

Hm. Okay. I think I have a plan. I'll write up a rough draft when I get back from my weekend. Thanks guys.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

Dimension Door every d4 rounds kicks ass, but isn't worth anything in combat.

Yea, I love the Horizon Walker flavor, it really is too bad that the class doesn't get anything good.

I like the idea of giving:
<identify monster>
<combat bonuses to identified monster>
<terrain-specific bonuses>
<Commune? - druid spell to know everything going on with the land, or all of the subspell of "talk with rocks" or whatever>
<minor movement/combat bonus/invisibility/teleportation? when you know the land>
<Animal Companion (also terrain-specific?) ?>

At higher levels give some sort of planar abilities.


So, like a fighter that knows the land and identifies monsters for combat bonuses instead of getting crazy bonus feats. Feats chosen are assumed to be combat/awareness oriented. You figure something like Blitz/TWF/PBS by level 6 is the run of the mill combat style if you want to go with that (I wouldn't, I may instead go with a few of the skill feats if I decided bonus feats were required).

I would play the "I've heard of this monster before, kicking it in the groin is the best strategy. It's groin is in the back of it's head." character.

[Cynic]

Unrestricted by terrain should definitely be one. It lets a ranger be a scout very nicely.

I'd suggest camouflage (hide bonus) instead of invisibility for flavor reasons.

WHy teleportation?

If he does have an animal companion, it should be at druid level or better personally. None of this pansy druid-3 business.

[shau]

I have been thinking about remaking the ranger as a warrior type who revolves around han=ving enhanced senses like blindsense. The end result should be someone who is an excellent scout, sniper, and tracker, who could also beat tough melee foes at close range if the conditions were right, such as at a dark location or area of heavy foliage.

[zeruslord]

I would give rangers a companion and/or followers, since the biggest literary examples people bring up are all leaders or have an animal companion.

So, like a fighter that knows the land and identifies monsters for combat bonuses instead of getting crazy bonus feats.

The ranger should replace the fighter's unique class abilities with his own and keep the feats, maybe dropping to one every three levels.

[IGTN]

If he does have an animal companion, it should be at druid level or better personally. None of this pansy druid-3 business.

The stopgap fix I'm using for my group is just to give the Ranger a full animal companion. It's worked so far (the fact that the ranger + wolf combination hasn't notably outshone the rogue proves how underpowered the core ranger is). Of course, we're starting at the low end and have a tiny group (only two others generally show up to the group), so that doesn't mean much.

It's also not a very good fix; a full rewrite would be nice.

I like the senses warrior and terrain master concepts. However, the way my group's ranger plays is more like a WoW hunter: the wolf melees and provides a flanking buddy for the rogue (the rogue hasn't gotten her hands on a Ring of Blinking or Invisibility yet, so she's relying on flanking and initiative), and the ranger shoots arrows. Designing the ranger to be a good WoW-style hunter might be worth considering.

Of course, defining a Ranger is really the hard part of a re-design, since the class isn't well-defined. You could probably write at least four Ranger fixes that all feel like rangers, all can complete level-appropriate challenges, and yet don't step too hard on eachothers' toes any harder than, say, the Thief-Acrobat and Assassin step on the Rogue's.

[Bigode]

Only after someone explains how the rogue and thief-acrobat aren't too similar ...

[Orion]

ZERO, have you seen my Tome Ranger?

[Bigode]

ZERO, have you seen my Tome Ranger?

Aren't there, like, two?

[zeruslord]

For Boolean's spirit ranger 11+ advancement, you could use something where he changes over to a wildshape model or has second tier spirits that give him more powerful abilities.

[Orion]

Well the Ranger Lord really never worked out...

I might go back to it if there were interest but apparently few people liked the flavor text anyway.

[ZER0]

The first draft of my Ranger is here. The idea is a ranged-combatant that specialises in knowing what things are and making them die. It's not a social character, but Rangers are champions of nature, so it does get a follower.[/url]

[zeruslord]

I liked the general idea of the ranger lord and the three-part model of the Ranger. The thing is that everyone will give you at least one of those three definitions for a ranger, and many of them will want at least two in the same campaign world.