Ubernoobs CO Game Discussion

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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Other stuff for this thread is in IMHO.

I was wondering if the Fiendish Feats are options? Specifically Product of Infernal Dalliance?

I'm talking with Jagged off and on about the characters, and getting cold immunity is something that she wants.

She got the [cold] Subtype as a gift in an other game after the party drove out a spellcaster that used lots of cold-themed monsters out of a cave that was used as a base to raid a nearby frost giant tribe.

Picking up one of the 4 subtypes that the feat gives could/would do that (and give her some energy resistances and either 2 claws or a bite; all of which fit Jagged's theme/character).
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Post by SunTzuWarmaster »

Product of Infernal Dalliance is specifically usable by those who are non-fiends. Take note that it does not have the [Fiend] tag.
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Post by ubernoob »

SunTzuWarmaster wrote:Product of Infernal Dalliance is specifically usable by those who are non-fiends. Take note that it does not have the [Fiend] tag.
Even then, iirc Tieflings can take [Fiend] feats.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Jagged's a Half-Elf, and changing that now would be sort of dumb, mostly b/c this character has been used in multiple campaigns and games, and one of the key things about her is: "Jagged is a half-elf."

I was just wondering, since all Tome stuff needs to be pre-approved. Other Fiendish feats won't be picked up (no room in the build), but I want to run this by you.
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Post by ubernoob »

Judging__Eagle wrote:Jagged's a Half-Elf, and changing that now would be sort of dumb, mostly b/c this character has been used in multiple campaigns and games, and one of the key things about her is: "Jagged is a half-elf."

I was just wondering, since all Tome stuff needs to be pre-approved. Other Fiendish feats won't be picked up (no room in the build), but I want to run this by you.
Frankly, half elf stats suck. If you want to use tiefling stats and RP a half elf that is absolutely fine with me.

That said, yeah. The feat is fine, but it doesn't give a [cold] subtype (not listed). Plus, you're going to have to fight the guy that specializes in fire. Do you really want to have cold subtype then?
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

I know half-elf stats suck. It's not my choice, and the player who will run Jagged has been playing this character in different games/systems/campaigns as a half-elf (when possible) or the nearest approximation (when not possible) that has a melee combat focus.

The feat doens't give the [cold] subtype, however it allows you to pick one of four [fiend] subtypes, all of which give immunity to 2 types of attacks (one type of energy and poisons).

I'd suggest either Yugoloth or Demodand and give her [Immunity: Cold and Poison].

She prefered Yugoloth (fiendish mercenaries?). Which makes sense. In her original setting 1/2 elves are the equivalent of Uruk-Hai, shocktroops, but also good looking enough to be considered brothel chattel.

In that setting "everyone knows" that 1/2 elves have no value, so treating them as soldiers or brothel workers worked in that setting.

Personally, I don't like that fact about the campaign that the character came from (on several levels), but w/e, that's the character's history.

However, I know that [Yugoloth] doesn't give cold immunity.

According to MM2, the [Yugoloth] subtype gives acid and poison, as well as Energy Resistance 20 versus Cold, Electricity and Fire (which is pre 3.5, so 10 or "scales to your levels" makes more sense as well as 100 feet of Telepathy.

and I don't have Fiend Folio, so I can't check Demodands out.

We could just do the following; since you'll probably never use Yugoloths, and since it really doesn't matter in the long run

Parents with style


Tanar’ri

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Ropiningingi Oni!, or "Demons are worse lovers than males."

...people with actual Demon parents are... usually not wanted.

Baatezu

"This contract says that you'll give birth to a great and powerful child, and that I will make sure that the birth won't cause you any undue harm."

"Is there a favorite position that you have? Gutting you by mistake would be unforgivable."


Contracts and Consent, or getting the most out of your Devil baby-daddy or Devil baby-mama

...if you're clever, or just serve devils, they may help give you fiendish offspring. Truth be told, a Kyton baby-mama would be better than other options, mostly b/c they can go adventuring with you and kick ass, and honestly, couples that go around killing shit is awesome.


Yugoloth

My services..... come at a price, what do you bid?

Fiendish Mercenaries, or "How I got to know your mother during the war"

Yugoloths are elite fiendish mercenaries that ply their trade across the multiverse, as such, these fiendish soldiers have been nearly everywhere and met nearly everyone.

Wherever soldiers travel through or war, populations undergo changes. Be it reduction of population, or sporatic influxes of offspring with non-native parentage.

As a result [Yugoloth] descended offspring tend to be treated with a wider range of opinions compared to those of other fiendish heritage.

Those of [Taana'ri] heritage are usually the products of attacks on mortals, and thus either pitied or scorned. Sometimes both at once.

Those of [Baatezau] heritage are usually the product of an agreement or pact made by both parties to produce a child with both fiendish and mortal characterstics. As a result are viewed either as tools, or pawns, and thus treated coldly, or are viewed as the ultimate blending of Immortal and Mortal creatures, and treated with deferance, awe or affection.

Those of [Yugoloth] heritage are seen the way that the children of soldiers, not long gone, are seen. Usually tinged with the same emotions that occured during conception. Ranging from disgust as the product of an unwanted sexual encounter all the way to nurturing love for the child of Yugoloth trooper that spent time with a mortal.

If should be noted that with Fiends, offspring can result in non-standard arrangements, and just because a male mortal mates with a female immortal, doesn't mean that the mortal won't have to raise the resulting child. Usually, a few days to a few years later, the mortal opens their door and sees a child in a basket woven out of a ribcage and swaddled with the suede of some infernal creature on their doorstep. Hilarity tends to ensue.
  • Immunity to Poison and 1 other Energy Type [chosen from Cold, Fire, Acid, Electricity]
  • Energy Resistance equal to Hit Dice versus the three energy types that were not selected in the above immunity
  • 100 feet of Telepathy with any creature that has a language

Demodands

"No! You get back here right now!"

Fiendish Wardens or Comic Relief

... Demodands are jailers, but are also jailed themselves. This has happened nearly forever ago, but Demodand's sware that the ones at the bottom of their 3-level racial tiers are the "reason" why the whole species is in Carceri.

Naturally the fact that these fiends live in a prison plane forever makes nearly everyone think in some way of typing up, chains, whips and other related stuff.
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by ubernoob »

Judging__Eagle wrote:I know half-elf stats suck. It's not my choice, and the player who will run Jagged has been playing this character in different games/systems/campaigns as a half-elf (when possible) or the nearest approximation (when not possible) that has a melee combat focus.

The feat doens't give the [cold] subtype, however it allows you to pick one of four [fiend] subtypes, all of which give immunity to 2 types of attacks (one type of energy and poisons)...

  • Immunity to Poison and 1 other Energy Type [chosen from Cold, Fire, Acid, Electricity]
  • Energy Resistance equal to Hit Dice versus the three energy types that were not selected in the above immunity
  • 100 feet of Telepathy with any creature that has a language
Can't believe I forgot about that. Yeah, that's fine.
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Post by Kaelik »

Wait, so now you can take a feat to get benefits way better then the actual Tome Feat gives?

Can I take Child Necromancer and just have it give me +4 CL to all spells and not have the child drawback at all?
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Actually, that's exactly what the feat gives.

It straight out gives you the specific subtype selected as defined by what the monster manuals say that those subtypes give.

In addition to 1 bite, or 2 claw attacks, Energy Resistance 5 versus Fire or Cold. As well as the ability to take [Fiend] feats.

I asked about this a while ago when trying to find out if one character could have multiple Fiendish subtypes. The result is either awesome or hilarious, probably both.
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Post by Kaelik »

Judging__Eagle wrote:Actually, that's exactly what the feat gives.

It straight out gives you the specific subtype selected as defined by what the monster manuals say that those subtypes give.

In addition to 1 bite, or 2 claw attacks, Energy Resistance 5 versus Fire or Cold. As well as the ability to take [Fiend] feats.

I asked about this a while ago when trying to find out if one character could have multiple Fiendish subtypes. The result is either awesome or hilarious, probably both.
Yes, it straight out gives you the subtype. Not the subtype, plus another immunity just because the actual subtype isn't good enough for you and you want more.

Can I just tack a free immunity onto each of my feats?

Sonic onto one, Fire another, hey look, I have more then six feats so I guess I'm immune to everything.
Last edited by Kaelik on Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ubernoob »

Frankly, if an elemental lord is dealing energy damage that doesn't have the feature of bypassing resistances and immunities (modeling off of searing spell and friends) then something is wrong.
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Post by Kaelik »

Still Half Damage. Can I attach a free immunity to each of my feats or not?
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Post by ubernoob »

Kaelik wrote:Still Half Damage. Can I attach a free immunity to each of my feats or not?
You took a bunch of filler feats for the most part. Feel free to toss in different feats. And who said anything about half damage? These are the Elemental Lords! I'll be messing around with Tome rules and other stuff to get these guys to be a decent challenge for you guys without making HD blow out of proportion. They are each going to have at least 2-3 elemental "break the rules" style special abilities.
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Post by ubernoob »

If you don't have sheets and one RP post up in the BG thread I'm moving on without you on wednsday. I don't care if it isn't complete with all the equipment and you fiddle with it right up until the first combat. That's fine. Just give me an something to work with when trying to figure out the numbers for NPCs and stuff and an RP post to work off of.

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Post by Judging__Eagle »

K, I've talked with the person that will be playing Jagged over the weekend and gone over her character's skills.

I should probably ask a few questions for my own character:

1. Is using Frank's Bard allowed, I'm taking it mostly b/c Merhault is...was a warrior-sage, so the +3 to all knowledge skills that the class grants at level 1 (to knowledge skills with at least 1 rank in) and performance fits in with him.

2. I've got a mix of 3/4 BaB classes; are we using standard BaB progression rules (in which case my archer/meleer/sage is -2 BaB, b/c there are 2 levels take in 3/4 BaB classes), or is using the scaling BaB rules from Arcana Unearthed allowable (in which case the character is only -1 BaB).

3. How are skill points being calculated? Can we assume that a person who pumps their intelligence score when the level ups would getting skill points retroactivally, or not?
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ubernoob »

Judging__Eagle wrote:K, I've talked with the person that will be playing Jagged over the weekend and gone over her character's skills.

I should probably ask a few questions for my own character:

1. Is using Frank's Bard allowed, I'm taking it mostly b/c Merhault is...was a warrior-sage, so the +3 to all knowledge skills that the class grants at level 1 (to knowledge skills with at least 1 rank in) and performance fits in with him.
I pretty much trust Frank's stuff. Just anything that isn't WotC should be reprinted in the sheet somewhere (it helps me).
2. I've got a mix of 3/4 BaB classes; are we using standard BaB progression rules (in which case my archer/meleer/sage is -2 BaB, b/c there are 2 levels take in 3/4 BaB classes), or is using the scaling BaB rules from Arcana Unearthed allowable (in which case the character is only -1 BaB).
Fractional bab is fine for melees.
3. How are skill points being calculated? Can we assume that a person who pumps their intelligence score when the level ups would getting skill points retroactivally, or not?
No retroactive skill points.
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Post by Kaelik »

ubernoob wrote:Fractional bab is fine for melees.
I declare myself a melee, effective immediately.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

I'll copy/paste the class features at the bottom.

Ok, so the idea of the smart fighter who gets smarter (instead of stronger, or faster, or tougher) is going to need some changing.

Also, it's going to take me a bit more time to calculate this characters skills. I'm divying up somwhere between 150-200 skill points among 20-ish skills for my character.
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Post by Bigode »

I'm, unfortunately if I may add, not in this game, but: fractional's the Truth and the Way. And: would you ubernoob trust Frank's word if I digged him saying (I thought the same way before hearing him, just using a heavier word than mine) non-retroactive skill points are idiocy?
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Post by ubernoob »

Bigode wrote:I'm, unfortunately if I may add, not in this game, but: fractional's the Truth and the Way. And: would you ubernoob trust Frank's word if I digged him saying (I thought the same way before hearing him, just using a heavier word than mine) non-retroactive skill points are idiocy?
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Post by ubernoob »

Kaelik wrote:
ubernoob wrote:Fractional bab is fine for melees.
I declare myself a melee, effective immediately.
You didn't think you are melee? C'mon, Kaelik! You and I both know that beguilers are melee!
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Post by Talisman »

ubernoob wrote:
Bigode wrote:I'm, unfortunately if I may add, not in this game, but: fractional's the Truth and the Way. And: would you ubernoob trust Frank's word if I digged him saying (I thought the same way before hearing him, just using a heavier word than mine) non-retroactive skill points are idiocy?
Give me a good argument and I'll change the world.
Umm...I have no investment in this thread, but...Constitution applies retroactively?

If that's not enough for ya, it makes it insanely easier to make high-level PCs.

It also gives non-wizards a reason to have Int.
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Post by Maxus »

The argument against non-retroactive skill points? Well, okay.

With NRSP, you start getting skill points, but your new skill is probably WAAAAAAY behind your others. But at the same time, you get retroactive hitpoints from a con boost, which is very inconsistent. These can be quite the boost, especially at high levels, because you're looking at an extra 15-16 HP. Hell, double or triple that with a Con-boosting item.

With RSP, it puts Intelligence on something of the same desirability as Constitution, and makes me face a choice about where to put that extra point in Con or in Int when I'm playing a rogue or a jester or someone where I actually use the skills.
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Post by ubernoob »

Talisman wrote:
ubernoob wrote:
Bigode wrote:I'm, unfortunately if I may add, not in this game, but: fractional's the Truth and the Way. And: would you ubernoob trust Frank's word if I digged him saying (I thought the same way before hearing him, just using a heavier word than mine) non-retroactive skill points are idiocy?
Give me a good argument and I'll change the world.
Umm...I have no investment in this thread, but...Constitution applies retroactively?

If that's not enough for ya, it makes it insanely easier to make high-level PCs.

It also gives non-wizards a reason to have Int.
Hmmm, I was going with the: It only helps wizards because nobody else has their RNG status int based.
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Well, I tend to crank Int on most of my characters since it's the only base stat that gives benefits when increased that merely putting on an item can't give. More skill points.

Also, I'd say that "knowing what weapon to use to deal full damage" could be grouped in with "your RNG status is related to your Int."

Mostly b/c fighters don't rely on Rage dice or Taunt dice to make DR not a big deal for them; fighters rely on "Yeah, evil outsider, looks like a mess, looks crazy; lets use steel" instead of "BARBARIAN SMASH!1eleven!!"

Also, this specific character is looking at having somewhere along the lines of a minium of a +12 modifier on any Knowledge skill that they put a rank into (+8 modifer, +3 from the free Bard Skill Focus (every Knowledge skill you have 1 rank in) = +11).
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