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virgil
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 5858

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Can Jingle be used to 'delete' memories by using counterfacts with higher veracity than the original? Can data subject to Misplace be recovered, or am I misunderstanding how this program works? Is Taxman essentially mind-reading, and how large can a file be from an organic source?
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Last edited by virgil on Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Grek
Prince


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 2599

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

According to my reading: Yes, yes and no. Jingle doesn't make the victim forget, but does make them disbelieve the lower veracity memory. Misplaced data is recovered using Recover, unsurprisingly. Taxman lets you make an organic target send you any computer format files they have stored in their brain. You need Brain Scan in order to get brain format data into a usable computer format.
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Last edited by Grek on Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lokathor
Duke


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 2013
Location: ID

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In terms of how much data can be within a brain at one time, "more than your commlink itself can hold on its own, but not so much that you can't get an extension module to hold a brain-copy if you need".

Like having raw BluRay files sitting around, you're probably gonna keep it on an external drive.
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Lokathor
Duke


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 2013
Location: ID

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The PDF version of this from before has essentially been lost to the ages of time.

However, I've put it up as a Gitbook. You can view it on the site (and it's mobile friendly), or you can download epub / pdf / mobi versions.

It's not as fancy as the PDF from before, but the site or the epub will look a lot better on your phone, so I consider it a win.
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Lathander
NPC


Joined: 13 May 2016
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

OK, question. does the rating of a fake SIN denote its veracity? and if, to quote the text, "if you keep telling the same lie for long enough it becomes truth" is true then does that mean that the rating of a fake SIN increases with use? and what effect would this have?

I was toying with an idea where if you have multiple identities and fail an ID check (both rolls) there is a chance that the system will make the connection and link them and perhaps put an identity fraud flag on the ID with higher veracity and effectively burning the other one. this might give the SINner negative quality some actual teeth.


Last edited by Lathander on Fri May 20, 2016 10:22 am; edited 3 times in total
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Lokathor
Duke


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 2013
Location: ID

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rating = Veracity is pretty much how I've played it with my group.

I don't think that simply using the SIN at all would improve the veracity by much within a time frame that a game runs though. Fake SINs are rated 1-6 in the book, and that's already all the way up to "Corp SIN" in the veracity chart. It's only a thousand per rating, so most players will probably just have rating 6 versions after a while. The difficult part is the availability of course; you can only start the game with a Fake SIN of rating 4 or less ("repeated news story").
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JesterZero
Journeyman


Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 106
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lokathor wrote:
The PDF version of this from before has essentially been lost to the ages of time.

Nothing is ever truly lost:
That being said, the Git version might be better for whatever reason, but if you're looking for history...there you go.
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FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2016 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Conceptually, making a fake ID stronger is simply about using it over and over again and building up a trail of references that the ID exists and is legitimate. Like building a credit rating in 2016.

For purposes of the game, it's unlikely that the players are going to keep any fake ID long enough or use it widely enough for there to be a need for a mechanic for that happening.

-Frank
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Posivated
NPC


Joined: 16 Oct 2016
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So I just started playing SR4 and am playing a hacker and just found this and I have read through the PDF and through this thread but no one has mentioned anything about the Agent program in the SR4 matrix program section. Unless I missed it, but I know it isn't in the PDF either. Is it that with this alternate ruleset they don't exist?
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Lokathor
Duke


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 2013
Location: ID

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm not super familiar with what an Agent does, but if it's a program sort of thing that can do things on its own then in this version of rules that'd be either IC (which is very limited, but suitable for people to have as basically a "pet" when they're in a fight), a Sprite (which is like the Technomancer version of a Spirit they can summon), or an AI (which is a rare form of NPC that generally uses the Sprite rules).
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Grek
Prince


Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 2599

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Agents are decker drones. You command them just like drones, and they take hacking actions autonomously until crashed or recalled.
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echoVanguard
Knight-Baron


Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 715

PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Grek wrote:
Agents are decker drones. You command them just like drones, and they take hacking actions autonomously until crashed or recalled.

This is possibly the single best explanation of Agents in SR I have ever seen.

echo
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mlangsdorf
Master


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I want to do an example of play, and would appreciate someone checking my work.

"Hotrod" is a newbie Shadowrunner. Relevant stats are Reaction 5, Intuition 4, Logic 5 (7), Willpower/Edge 3. Skills include Cracking 4, EW 6, Electronics 4, Perception 3. He a specialization in Hacking (Exploits). Relevant ware is an Encephlaon 2, Internal Commlink*, Internal SimRig, Cerebral Booster 2.

*Comlink Stats: Response 5, Signal 5, System 5, Firewall 5, Redundant Filters 2. Analysis: Backtrack 4, Who Is 4; Attack: Crash 4, Seizure 4; Comm: ECCM 4, Intercept 3; Exploit: Backdoor 5, Master Control 4; Operations: Armor 2, Terminate Connection 3.

Hotrod's team is chasing Woomis, a bar owner who has the old CD-ROM they're seeking. Woomis flees out the back of the bar and Hotrod's team follows him into a junkyard. Another street sam, an ork mage, and a trio of goons are waiting; Woomis hides while the two teams exchange words. Negotiations break down and both sides start aggressive diplomacy.

Riss, the rival Street Sam, has R6, I4, L3, W 3, Wired Reflexes 2, and EW 1. His internal CommLink has Response 4, Signal 4, System 4, Firewall 4, Redundant Filters 4, and no other programs.

Hotrod rolls 3 hits for initiative versus Riss' (somewhat improbable) 0. For simplicity, I'm only rolling initiative once and fixing the order and I'm skipping over the rolls for other people.

*** Round 1 ***
IP 1
Hotrod: Hotrod moves to cover as a non-action. He crouches as a free action. With a complex action, he toggles VR (he's already running hot). He gets 3 IP.
Riss: Took a full defense action to avoid being shot by the samurai on Hotrod's team. Also moves to cover.
IP 2
Hotrod: Nothing yet.
Riss: Exchanges fire futilely with the street samuari.
IP 3
Hotrod: Nothing yet.
Riss: Forced to take a full defense action.

*** Round 2 ***
IP 1
Hotrod: At less than 30 meters, Hotrod is easily in handshake range of Riss' network. He wants to Seize Network, but that won't work against an internal commlink. He takes a Complex Action to Seize Riss. Hotrod rolls 7+4, opposed by Riss' Firewall of 4 and Signal Defense of 1. Hotrod gets 1 hit, Riss gets 2, and the attempt fails.
Riss: Riss wants to put a bullet in the hacker, but he's pinned down by the samurai. He takes a shot at the samurai and moves to get to a better position.
IP 2
Hotrod: tries the Seize again. This time he gets 6 hits, but he's limited to 5 by the program rating. Riss resists with 2 hits. The RBFB filters kick in, and he soaks with 3+4 (Willpower + Filter) for another 2 hits. Riss' Wired Reflexes don't help him here, and he is incapacitated for the next 5 rounds before he can Willpower + Filters to cancel the last hit and recover.
Riss: collapses in a heap, unable to do anything.
IP 3: The opposing mage doesn't have an internal commlink, and he's nearby. Hotrod attempts to Seize Network, rolling 7+6 versus the the mage's Logic of 5 and EW of 2. Hotrod gets 5 hits, the ork gets 1 hit, and Hotrod adds the ork's commlink to his PAN.

*** Round 3 ***
IP 1:
Ork Mage: The Ork doesn't know what's going to happen to him next, but he knows it won't possibly be good. He casts Trid Entertainment to make an illusion of smoke and break LoS. He gets 2 hits and proceeds to choke on the drain, inflicting a severe stun on himself.
Meanwhile, Hotrod resists the illusion. He rolls his Intuition, boosted by a friendly mage's Counterspell of 6 (base 4, with a specialization in Illusions). He gets 3 hits, and can see through it.
Hotrod: drops the hammer on the ork, with another Seize. He gets 3 hits. The orc doesn't know Cyberwarfare and doesn't have a friendly hacker providing signal defense, and no longer has a commlink to provide a firewall or biofilters. He soaks with his Willpower of 4, for 0 hits, and starts flailing around. He won't be able to even attempt to get out of the seizure for 5 rounds, and even then he needs to get 3 hits on his Willpower soak to recover.
IP 2:
With the competent members of the opposition down, it's trivial for Hotrod's allies to clean up the last three goons. Hotrod takes a complex action to exit VR in preparation for tying up the goons and stealing their pocket change.


Did I get all that right? I think I did, but SR4e in general and EotM in particular are kind of complicated.
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