Use Rope: What can I do with it, usefully?

[RiotGearEpsilon]

So, if I have an infinite supply of silk rope - and I do - how can I capitalize on Use Rope?

There's a big gap in the DC spread - nothing between 15 and 50 except binding people. What sort of stuff might I be able to do with DC 25 checks? DC 35 checks?

Let's brainstorm a little. Suppose I wanted to create a garrote that could be tightened easily, but could be loosened only with extreme difficulty. What difficulty would that be, to make a knot 'ratchet'?

[CatharzGodfoot]

Let's brainstorm a little. Suppose I wanted to create a garrote that could be tightened easily, but could be loosened only with extreme difficulty. What difficulty would that be, to make a knot 'ratchet'?

16 sounds about right. That way a smart 1st level rope user could take 10 to consistently make one, but it's not easy. The Escape Artist or Use Rope DC to escape could be the actual check result, if you want to make it deadly. The rules for damaging items would still apply, which is unfortunate because attempting to 'sunder' the rope around a person's neck with a battle axe has no chance of damaging the roped.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

Okay, so, what would the DC be to hog-tie someone in the middle of combat?

[CatharzGodfoot]

Okay, so, what would the DC be to hog-tie someone in the middle of combat?

While holding someone down, make a Use Rope check opposed by your opponent's grapple or Escape Artist check as a full round action. If successful, your foe is 'hog tied'.

Depending on your interpretation of the advanced combat rules, it might be an attack action..


Trussing up an otherwise unrestrained person would be more difficult. I'd suggest that at the very least you should have to entangle them with a lasso or net first.

[Cynic]

virgileso and i were just talking about the uselessness of the use rope skill the other day.
~

A proposed solution on my part
-
Fold it into Escape artist.

Have all previous UR checks be EA checks and have them be opposed by EA checks. it's simple enough.

and for the grappling hook business when you are about to climb, just make another climb check.
~

There are a few problems with this solution and also with just removing UR in general but it is just a thought.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

Never mind. I found the Legendary Wrangler feat from the Frank & K and I'm in my happy place.

[Bigode]

Never mind. I found the Legendary Wrangler feat from the Frank & K and I'm in my happy place.

Except that it was Iaimeki who made it.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

Then praise be to him!

[RiotGearEpsilon]

Thoughts:

Knots that tighten when you struggle, making each successive Escape Artist check more difficulty.

Bindings that not only become harder to escape, but more restrictive as you struggle, meaning that someone who starts to escape can go from hobbled to hog-tied to garroted in a few rounds.

[Koumei]

The rules for damaging items would still apply, which is unfortunate because attempting to 'sunder' the rope around a person's neck with a battle axe has no chance of damaging the roped.

Technically not true. They say to use your discretion - I think one example is that you can't sunder rope or paper with a bludgeoning weapon. So sure, it's in the hand-wave/house-rule field, but they do say to use common sense with that part.

[Nihlin]

Technically not true. They say to use your discretion - I think one example is that you can't sunder rope or paper with a bludgeoning weapon. So sure, it's in the hand-wave/house-rule field, but they do say to use common sense with that part.

I can't recall a single piece of source material were someone accidentally kills their buddy while cutting a noose or whatever off of their neck or the bindings off of their wrists. Also, I can't think of any good balance reason why I'd what to turn the already-unfortunate choice of "burn a turn or watch my pal die" into "spend a turn and maybe kill my pal anyway."

I'm open to other interpretations, though.

[RiotGearEpsilon]

Seconding Nihlin here. Cutting someone free should always work, I think.

[CatharzGodfoot]

The rules for damaging items would still apply, which is unfortunate because attempting to 'sunder' the rope around a person's neck with a battle axe has no chance of damaging the roped.

Technically not true. They say to use your discretion - I think one example is that you can't sunder rope or paper with a bludgeoning weapon. So sure, it's in the hand-wave/house-rule field, but they do say to use common sense with that part.

Here's what I was looking at:

You don’t use an opposed attack roll to damage a carried or worn object. Instead, just make an attack roll against the object’s AC. A carried or worn object’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier + the Dexterity modifier of the carrying or wearing character. Attacking a carried or worn object provokes an attack of opportunity just as attacking a held object does. To attempt to snatch away an item worn by a defender rather than damage it, see Disarm. You can’t sunder armor worn by another character.

[Maxus]

You can’t sunder armor worn by another character.

Always hated that rule.

On the other hand, I'm given to believe that the Book of Erotic Fantasy contains a spell which makes someone's clothes and armor fall off. Negated by a Reflex save.

[Bigode]

I disagree about cutting a garrote off someone's neck with an axe - you just should have to reach for a dagger, at least. And no, there's no good balance reason for it, but ...

[RiotGearEpsilon]

It depends how sharp the axe is, really. You should be able to sort of saw it off.

[Prak]

yes but who's going to say "Hey, hold on buddy, I'll cut it off with my axe!" and then have the presence of mind to carefully saw away with this, comparitively, GINORMOUS blade? About the only person that would do that would be a barbarian in full rage, and if they're using an axe, they ain't sawing carefully, and if they're sawing carefully, they ain't using an axe.

[CatharzGodfoot]

About the only person that would do that would be a barbarian in full rage, and if they're using an axe, they ain't sawing carefully, and if they're sawing carefully, they ain't using an axe.

A barbarian in full rage can be pretty accurate, and with none of those qualms that can make people hesitate or slip. There are plenty of films where equally absurd things happen, like nooses being shot off with pistols.

[Prak]

My point is that if the barbarian is so unthinking as to use his axe, he's not going to think to saw carefully, and if he thinks to saw carefully, he'll think to not use the axe. Not in my opinion, anyway... but it could work I suppose.

[Koumei]

There are plenty of films where equally absurd things happen, like nooses being shot off with pistols.

"To tell you the truth, I was aiming for the hangman."

Anyway, I wasn't saying one way or another whether such an action should work or risk grievous bodily harm to your friend. Just pointing out that if you think it should be a very dangerous action, then the DMG says "do what you like. I'm not listing a million different possibilities of smashing shit."

[Nihlin]

Fair enough. Just to be clear, as the GM of the game Riot's using this in, I have no problem at will with chopping off a garrote with an axe. And that stuff totally happens all the time in movies and books, realism be damned.

In "Titanic" Kate Winslet cuts off DiCaprio's handcuffs with an axe while her eyes are shut, by which I mean that it's pretty iconic and transcends the fantasy genre.

I'm interested in mechanical balance, narrative value, and genre tropes. Realism is for another campaign.