IMHO... Base Weapon Damage Should Matter

[NoDot]

I had an idea for TNE. What if being proficient with a weapon allowed you to use particular abilities that require you to use that particular weapon. These abilities would be unconstrained by Color, allowing anyone who studied with the weapon to use the ability. (I thought about splitting these up into categories, but I found myself creating Schools of Martial Arts in the process.)

[Bigode]

Wait, what? I don't have any examples.

You don't? Oops, I expected youto have a better recollection than me (since I thought you actually took part in it) about the Waking Lands discussion on WTH to do with bludgeoning weapons, quarterstaff/siangham/whatever woes, etc. Since those forums are down, quoting's a nontrivial task (it's possible at all because I've the threads saved, but I'll have to find it in a damaged HD) I'll try to accomplish later.

[ckafrica]

I'm largely worried that certain weapon choices will be relegated as mechanically inferior. I don't want to feel that mechanics are hamstring my character design choices on something which is largely cosmetic. That's why I'd rather mechanics that fit into strictly damage type and size. whether I have a mace or warhammer should largely be immaterial IMHO other than cosmetic

[Judging__Eagle]

Mace or Warhammer....

Well, the Warhammer is actually a weapon with a much smaller striking head than people would expect.

The "sledgehammer" on a handle image is right out; unless it's a honeycomb-filled titanium metal head that is fairly hollow. A real warhammer head you should be able to cup both ends of in both hands.

Anything larger is ridiculous and too strenuous to use for long.




The problem of "high weapon range granularity" and "low movement distance granularity" could be solved with.... you guessed it more movement granularity.

How about say.... 4 foot squares? And measure everything on quadriculated paper?

Light weapons have a range of (Grapple) 0-2 feet, medium 1-3 feet, two-handed 3-6 feet. Reach weapons swing from 6-10 feet, depending on the weapon, and even 'really' long reach weapons are possible.

I'm not sure if all weapons should be given the same damage dice, I'd like to, and then give 'special' abilities like wide crit range or the ability to trip reduce damage or require special training.

AoOs: Provoked if someone tries to move through someone else's melee weapon "range band"; or for every 4' that a creature moves through while in an other creatures "range band"

The 4' step, replaces the 5' step.

Movement: Determine how many squares a creature used to move (divide their old speed by 5) and multiply that by 4.

Your Dex modifier affects your movement. Each point of positive modifier adds one more square of movement, and vice versa for negative modifiers.

Not pretty, but it's a thought.

[NoDot]

I had an idea for TNE. What if being proficient with a weapon allowed you to use particular abilities that require you to use that particular weapon. These abilities would be unconstrained by Color, allowing anyone who studied with the weapon to use the ability. (I thought about splitting these up into categories, but I found myself creating Schools of Martial Arts in the process.)

I'm trying to figure out how I forgot it, but I should've mentioned that this is free knowledge. Proficiency with all Martial Weapons grants you access to all the powers which require your to be wielding a particular Martial Weapon.

[ckafrica]

Mace or Warhammer....

Well, the Warhammer is actually a weapon with a much smaller striking head than people would expect.

The "sledgehammer" on a handle image is right out; unless it's a honeycomb-filled titanium metal head that is fairly hollow. A real warhammer head you should be able to cup both ends of in both hands.

Anything larger is ridiculous and too strenuous to use for long.

Yes I'm aware that the d&d warhammer never really existed, the real one is really the pick. But that doesn't mean we don't want to be able to use one. If we are going to be solely simulationist, we'll all be using katanas and we don't want to go there, right?

My only point is whether I picture my character wielding a big heavy hammer shaped one handed weapon or a ball shaped one handed weapon, it really shouldn't be effecting the mechanics in any meaningful way. Keep the weapons somewhat generic and balanced so that no concept is discounted out of hand for it's mechanical inferiority.

I want the option of using any weapon and not sucking.

[Judging__Eagle]

You know, even in a very simulationist game, Katanas wouldn't be the most commonly used weapon.

Mostly b/c you've got plate wearers, and maces fuck those types up by just delivering impact, not by cutting.

Right now the system for making weapons is usually a good one and 'tends' to looks something like this:

Simple
Light: 1d4, Crit on 20, x2 Crit
Medium: 1d6, Crit on 20, x2 Crit
Large: 1d10, Crit on 20, x2 Crit

Martial
Light: 1d6, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit
Medium: 1d8, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit
Large: 2d6, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit

Exotic:
Light: 1d8, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit
Medium: 1d10, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit
Large: 2d8, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit [Okay, no PHB weapon has 2d8, but there are no 'large' swords in there either)

Modifiers (as far as I can tell from looking at the PHB weapons):
The following reduce the damage dice size, usually by 1 per modifier:
-Increasing your threat range (ex. Kukris, Falchions)
-Make weapon 'cheaper' or 'free' (ex. Clubs)
-Increasing crit multiplier (Ex. Picks, Scythes)

The following increase the damage dice size, usually by 1 per modifier:
-Weapon is exotic
-Weapon is more expensive than usual

Other Abilities:

-Has an ability that other weapons of its type don't have (Ex. Flail can disarm; Repeating Crossbows shift when you have to reload); assess on a case by case basis.

[CatharzGodfoot]

You know, even in a very simulationist game, Katanas wouldn't be the most commonly used weapon.

Mostly b/c you've got plate wearers, and maces fuck those types up by just delivering impact, not by cutting.

I think the `katana` thing was a joke, but as you say abstract damage type is a decent way of making the weapon matter. I like the option that I proposed a while back (fancy that), where different [3] damage types are effective against different armor types. This encourages characters to use hammers to go through stone walls rather than great axes, and to use great axes to go through wooden doors rather than rapiers.

If you added in significant 'reach' effects (dagger vs. sword vs. spear), you'd have nine significantly different melee weapons to choose from, [hopefully] while maintaining some balance. You could add in a fourth size category as JE suggests (grapple: daggers, stilettos, brass knuckles). It wouldn't start to approach the number of `options` in 3e, but it would make for a decent range of meaningful choices.

Plus, that would all be orthogonal to weapon-based skills.

[Judging__Eagle]

Overall, the organization of this doesn't leave me too happy, mostly b/c weapon RANGES tend to overlap with weapons SIZES. So One-handed weapons tend to be Medium sized weapons. Sigh. I'll have to fix this later.

Weapon Ranges:

Close: Grapple (or 0') to 2 feet away
Near: 2-3 feet away
Far: 3-5 feet away
Reach: 5-10 feet away

Ranged: 0-Varies (Provokes Attacks of Opportunity when used in melee range of an other character)

Note: Ranged weapons can show up in any of the

Weapon Categorizes:
Simple
Martial
Exotic

Weapon Subcategories:
--Melee;
---Small(1-handed, Finessable), Medium (1-handed, not finessable), Large (2-handed, not finessable)
--Ranged
---1 or 2 handed

Note: all weapons are used on 1/4 inch squares, and 'medium' characters take up the old 5' square (now the 4' square)

Simple Weapons
Weapons that almost anyone can pick up and swing around or use in a lethal fashion. Without hurting themselves of course.

Small: 1d4, Crit on 20, x2 Crit

Close: Knife

Ranged: Dart

Medium:[/i] 1d6, Crit on 20, x2 Crit

Near: Mace, Morningstar, Club

Ranged: Light Crossbow, Javelin, Shortspear

Large: 1d10, Crit on 20, x2 Crit

Far: Greatclub (honestly, it's not that fucking hard to swing a baseball bat in a lethal fashion, and that's exactly what a greatclub is ; a baseball bat, sometimes with metal bands to make it hit and not get dented, or deal silver damage. Whatever.)

Ranged: Heavy Crossbow

Reach:[/b] Greatspear

Martial
Weapons that need some thought before you can swing them in a lethal fashion without hurting yourself.

Small: 1d6, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit

Close: Handaxe, Kukri (-1 Dice size, 18-20 crit range; 1d4), Shortsword,

Ranged: Shortbow

Medium: 1d8, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit

Near: Longsword, Flail (-Crit range, can trip/disarm), Warhammer, Pick (-1 Dice Size, x4 Crit multiplier; 1d6 damage), Waraxe, etc.

Ranged: Hunting Bow

Large: 1d12 or 2d6, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit

Far: Scythe (-1 Size 2d4, x4 Crit), Great Axe, Greatsword, Halbeard

Reach:Most martial Polearms

Exotic:
Small: 1d8, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit

Medium: 1d10, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit

Far:Bastard Sword, Dwarven Waraxe

Large: 2d8, Crit on 19-20 or x3 Crit [Okay, no PHB weapon has 2d8, but there are no 'large' swords in there either)

Reach: Spiked Chain (-2 dice sizes, Plus Two-Handed Range, Can Trip/Disarm; 2d4 damage)
Ranged: Great bow/Yumi

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I know, I know, it's a mess. -_-;;