GSL- It's Here.

[Leress]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome

Here it is the GSL

[JonSetanta]

Cool.
There's also a note by "Sovelior Sage", creator of the nice-looking HTML version of the 3e SRD, stating that they are planning to release the 4e SRD version when complete.

And I don't know about you guys, but I keep an SRD window open whenever I design RP concepts.
It's a valuable resource.

[Absentminded_Wizard]

Actually, he can't. The GSL specifically forbids reprinting the SRD in its entirety. And it's not useful to gamers anyway, since it's just a llst o things you're allowed to refer to and templates you're allowed to use.

[Amra]

Hmph. I was going to quote the relevant paragraph from the GSL about what you could and couldn't do before realising that the Usage Guidelines themselves are not covered under the GSL and may not be reproduced!

Anyway, the gist is that you can't reproduce any text, statistics block or any definition of any of the terms in the WoTC rulebooks, so there'll be no legal handy HTML/other electronic references for 4e, ever, unless WoTC make them.

What's the deal, by the way, with the promised electronic versions of the books that come along with the paper versions? Has that happened yet?

[Username17]

What's the deal, by the way, with the promised electronic versions of the books that come along with the paper versions? Has that happened yet?

They were pre-released by WotC as pdfs on bittorrent in order to drum up hype for 4th edition. They are still circulating around.

The torrents are currently still quite strong of course. And while WotC officially denounces it as piracy, the fact remains that they were an immediate pre-release of the official PDF right before anyone but WotC marketing had the copies, so it's pretty obvious who leaked them in the first place and why.

-Username17

[Amra]

I can't say I'm in the least bit surprised. However, I was asking because at GenCon UK last year[1] I heard WoTC announce during the Q&A that the books would be accessible online if you had a hard copy. I have a hard copy of the books but can't find the code nor where to use it online even if I could find it.

I'm most interested from a professional perspective; information security is my thing and I was *very* curious about how they were going to protect the content.

I guess that question has been answered though: they're not.


[1] During which I had the gleefully-seized opportunity to dress Bruce Cordell up in *real* full plate and make him do stuff in five-foot squares, which was just hilarious.

[Voss]

They also decided to can the the official (and buyable) pdf versions, last I heard. Basically they couldn't figure out a way to make people buy the books if they offered pdfs, so in keeping with 4e philosophy, the complicated options got thrown out.

[Leress]

I've been reading over the GSL and it looks to be a lot more restrictive than the old OGL. It seems like they want 3rd party people to make new IPs instead of making "Player's Guide to..."s or "Like DnD but with more flowers" ala Pathfinder. You can have elves but you can't called them that, so you scratch off the VIN give it a paint job and add hydraulics to them.

You can't redefine terms but you can make up new ones. So you are not adding to DnD but just using the template that is provided.

I will still have to read this over some more, but right now the GSL is just...just *sigh* not really good.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

[Jerry]

I will still have to read this over some more, but right now the GSL is just...just *sigh* not really good.

From what I've heard so far, I assume that it is far more restrictive.

P.S. Why the change in avatar, Leress? I thought that your Lynx avatar was pretty cool.

[Leress]

I will still have to read this over some more, but right now the GSL is just...just *sigh* not really good.

From what I've heard so far, I assume that it is far more restrictive.

It is, you can't even refer to page numbers in their books because they may change the page in re-printings of it. You also can reproduce stat blocks so for adventures all you can really say is Kobold wyrmpriest and it's level. So you are pretty much going to make up new monster with more abilities that you make up. It pretty is like making up your own magic the gathering cards. A little like this...

P.S. Why the change in avatar, Leress? I thought that your Lynx avatar was pretty cool.

Change is good sometimes.

[Absentminded_Wizard]

Yep, it's been pretty clear that all WotC wants third-party publishers for is adventures and campaign settings. Except that your campaign settings are going to end up either extremely generic (because you can't change the flavor text for elves or dwarves) or really out there (because you make up your own crazy races in order to get around the "no modifications" restriction).

Furthermore, there's lots of protection for WotC against licensee's ripping them off, but no protection for the licensee who gets ripped off by WotC. So anything you make up better be pretty darn original to reduce the likelihood of WotC bringing out something similar and claiming it as part of its D&D IP.

(Insert obligatory "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer here.)

But there is a Paizo boards thread on this topic where a couple of lawyers do chime in.

[Fwib]

I saw these, and thought of this thread.
http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=902 ... tcount=568

[Jerry]

Yep, it's been pretty clear that all WotC wants third-party publishers for is adventures and campaign settings. Except that your campaign settings are going to end up either extremely generic (because you can't change the flavor text for elves or dwarves) or really out there (because you make up your own crazy races in order to get around the "no modifications" restriction).

May as well make my own RPG, then.

[Leress]

Yep, it's been pretty clear that all WotC wants third-party publishers for is adventures and campaign settings. Except that your campaign settings are going to end up either extremely generic (because you can't change the flavor text for elves or dwarves) or really out there (because you make up your own crazy races in order to get around the "no modifications" restriction).

Here is another thing I noticed...It doesn't prevent the making of the "Book of Erotic Fantasy" - type books, just only that third party publisher can't make it.

Actually you could make a setting that is both unique and non generic in with this license.*

I can think of one.


*this is not a defense of the BSL(bullshit license)

Here is translation of the BSL by Amy Kou'al (a lawyer and member of ENWorld) at ENWorld

Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Game System License

This is the GSL.

1. You have to send us a letter saying you accepted this license. After you send us your acceptance letter, if we don't get back to you within 14 days, you're good to go. Tell us if any information changes or you might have to send us another one. You can't sell anything before October 1, though.

2. We can update the license whenever we want. It's up to you to make sure you're in compliance.

3. You can only use this license to make hardback or softback books, or electronic books. You can also make anything else to support those books unless we say you can't in Section 5.5.

4. You can use our stuff for free, but you have to follow our rules.

4.1. You can refer to everything we list in the SRD, but you can't redefine any terms in said SRD. You can add more stuff relating to those terms, though. We can update the SRD whenever we want. It's up to you to make sure you're in compliance.

4.2. You have to use our logo on your books. You can use it for other stuff too.

5. Requirements and limitations.

5.1. You can't use our trademarked stuff except in referring to the game and the core books.

5.2. Cut and paste this text block in your book's front somewhere. It has to be readable.

5.3. Cut and paste this text block in your ads. It's okay if some people can't read it unless they wear glasses.

5.4. You can't sell any books until October 1. If you do, you don't get to play. You can tell people you have books coming though.

5.5. You can't sell any web sites, computer-y things, miniatures or character creators that use our stuff. You also can't talk about character creation or leveling, claim to be part of the core books, point to our art, or reprint our core rules text. You also can't use our stuff in something that doesn't play by these rules.

5.6. You can't sell the contents of the SRD or definitions of what's in it.

5.7. You can't use our art.

6. OGL stuff.

6.1. You can convert your stuff to GSL, but you can't sell your old OGL stuff, except for your back stock. You can't convert back ever.

6.2. You can't weasel out of 6.1 either.

6.3. If you try, you don't get to play anymore.

7. Your stuff has to be relatively tame. That means no gore, no sex, and no social injustice, unless we're talking elves hating dwarves. Don't harass anyone or explain how to do something illegal.

8. Don't do anything illegal, either.

9. We get free copies of your stuff if we ask!

10. Ownership stuff.

10.1. We still own all the stuff we own. You can't use any of the stuff we own unless we let you. FYI: This includes the core rules and the SRD.

10.2. If you use someone else's stuff, we're not responsible.

10.3. You have to help us protect all the stuff we own, but we'll pay you. You can't legally argue that we don't own what we own. Don't break what we own either.

10.4. If you break the rules, you have to pay us.

11. Breaking things off.

11.1 We'll send you a note if we're breaking up. If we change our minds about everything we'll tell everyone.

11.2. Everything that seems like it can be permanencied, is.

11.3. If we say you can't play anymore, you have to get rid of everything yourself. You can't pretend like we didn't break up with you, either. If you ask us, we might let you keep some of the stuff you made, though.

11.4. If you break the rules, we might have to go to court. You have to pay us for that too.

12.a. You have to tell people that you own all your own stuff, unless it's somebody else's.

12.b. You can't agree to all this stuff for someone else who's not you.

12.c. You can't agree to this if it means you'd have to break some other agreement.

12.d. You can't violate anyone else's copyright.

12.e. You can't violate anyone's privacy or say anything bad about them.

12.f. You have to do what the government says if they're helping us.

13. We don't guarantee anything.

14. If someone else blames us for your stuff, you have to say it's your fault.

15. You can play, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're friends unless we talk first.

16. You can't tell someone else that they're allowed to use this license.

17. If you break the rules and we ignore you, that doesn't necessarily mean we're going to ignore you next time.

18. You can make your stuff and we can make our stuff, but you can't blame us if our stuff competes with your stuff. We can also ask other people to use their stuff that you might already be using, and you can't complain.

19. If we have to go to court, we're gonna do it in our backyard. No jury, though.

20. If the judge says part of this license is illegal, you still have to play by the rest of it.

21. That's it. We'll call you if anything changes.

[Absentminded_Wizard]

Yep, it's been pretty clear that all WotC wants third-party publishers for is adventures and campaign settings. Except that your campaign settings are going to end up either extremely generic (because you can't change the flavor text for elves or dwarves) or really out there (because you make up your own crazy races in order to get around the "no modifications" restriction).

Here is another thing I noticed...It doesn't prevent the making of the "Book of Erotic Fantasy" - type books, just only that third party publisher can't make it.

True. Since WotC owns the D&D IP, they can do whatever they want with it because they don't have to license it from somebody.

Actually you could make a setting that is both unique and non generic in with this license.*

I can think of one.

My claim was that settings have to be either *really* unique or completely generic to comply with the license.

*this is not a defense of the BSL(bullshit license)

Here is translation of the BSL by Amy Kou'al (a lawyer and member of ENWorld) at ENWorld

Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Game System License

This is the GSL.

1. You have to send us a letter saying you accepted this license. After you send us your acceptance letter, if we don't get back to you within 14 days, you're good to go. Tell us if any information changes or you might have to send us another one. You can't sell anything before October 1, though.

2. We can update the license whenever we want. It's up to you to make sure you're in compliance.

3. You can only use this license to make hardback or softback books, or electronic books. You can also make anything else to support those books unless we say you can't in Section 5.5.

4. You can use our stuff for free, but you have to follow our rules.

4.1. You can refer to everything we list in the SRD, but you can't redefine any terms in said SRD. You can add more stuff relating to those terms, though. We can update the SRD whenever we want. It's up to you to make sure you're in compliance.

4.2. You have to use our logo on your books. You can use it for other stuff too.

5. Requirements and limitations.

5.1. You can't use our trademarked stuff except in referring to the game and the core books.

5.2. Cut and paste this text block in your book's front somewhere. It has to be readable.

5.3. Cut and paste this text block in your ads. It's okay if some people can't read it unless they wear glasses.

5.4. You can't sell any books until October 1. If you do, you don't get to play. You can tell people you have books coming though.

5.5. You can't sell any web sites, computer-y things, miniatures or character creators that use our stuff. You also can't talk about character creation or leveling, claim to be part of the core books, point to our art, or reprint our core rules text. You also can't use our stuff in something that doesn't play by these rules.

5.6. You can't sell the contents of the SRD or definitions of what's in it.

5.7. You can't use our art.

6. OGL stuff.

6.1. You can convert your stuff to GSL, but you can't sell your old OGL stuff, except for your back stock. You can't convert back ever.

6.2. You can't weasel out of 6.1 either.

6.3. If you try, you don't get to play anymore.

7. Your stuff has to be relatively tame. That means no gore, no sex, and no social injustice, unless we're talking elves hating dwarves. Don't harass anyone or explain how to do something illegal.

8. Don't do anything illegal, either.

9. We get free copies of your stuff if we ask!

10. Ownership stuff.

10.1. We still own all the stuff we own. You can't use any of the stuff we own unless we let you. FYI: This includes the core rules and the SRD.

10.2. If you use someone else's stuff, we're not responsible.

10.3. You have to help us protect all the stuff we own, but we'll pay you. You can't legally argue that we don't own what we own. Don't break what we own either.

10.4. If you break the rules, you have to pay us.

11. Breaking things off.

11.1 We'll send you a note if we're breaking up. If we change our minds about everything we'll tell everyone.

11.2. Everything that seems like it can be permanencied, is.

11.3. If we say you can't play anymore, you have to get rid of everything yourself. You can't pretend like we didn't break up with you, either. If you ask us, we might let you keep some of the stuff you made, though.

11.4. If you break the rules, we might have to go to court. You have to pay us for that too.

12.a. You have to tell people that you own all your own stuff, unless it's somebody else's.

12.b. You can't agree to all this stuff for someone else who's not you.

12.c. You can't agree to this if it means you'd have to break some other agreement.

12.d. You can't violate anyone else's copyright.

12.e. You can't violate anyone's privacy or say anything bad about them.

12.f. You have to do what the government says if they're helping us.

13. We don't guarantee anything.

14. If someone else blames us for your stuff, you have to say it's your fault.

15. You can play, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're friends unless we talk first.

16. You can't tell someone else that they're allowed to use this license.

17. If you break the rules and we ignore you, that doesn't necessarily mean we're going to ignore you next time.

18. You can make your stuff and we can make our stuff, but you can't blame us if our stuff competes with your stuff. We can also ask other people to use their stuff that you might already be using, and you can't complain.

19. If we have to go to court, we're gonna do it in our backyard. No jury, though.

20. If the judge says part of this license is illegal, you still have to play by the rest of it.

21. That's it. We'll call you if anything changes.

Actually, that's pretty accurate, though the light tone doesn't really communicate how nefarious this license is.

I saw these, and thought of this thread.
http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=902 ... tcount=568

The Admiral Akbar one turned up on the Paizo thread (Just the "It's a trap!" part, not the line about the GSL). I think the second one is more awesome, though.