Understanding German Feudalism & Freiherrs

[virgil]

The subject line covers most of it. Attempts at digging through the internet don't give very good detail as to how the feudal system largely worked in Germany, other than the impression they had it more centralized/organized than most.

I'm also noticing that their barons had alloidal property, which confuses me as to their responsibilities to the kingdom if they remain at the bottom of the peerage. This part I'm trying to understand, because I'm planning on having an NPC in my game be a Baron, and decided to try to model it off a germanic system; but it's hard to derive such when I can't find much information to know where my differences/similarities are going to be.

[baduin]

The German feudal system was probably most complicated of all.

Freiherren (Reichsfreiherren) were originally directly subject to the Emperor or an imperial city. Other Freiherren and barons were subject to territorial rulers. Freiherren had generally allodial titles, but the difference between allodial and feudal titles disappeared quickly.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allod

The difference between mediate and immediate nobles was more important than between allodial and feudal titles. Mediate nobles were subject to territorial rulers, immediate subject directly to the Emperor.

So, it must be remembered that there were two levels: Imperial and territorial, but this didn't reflect actual power, since some territorial kingdoms could as powerful as the Empire. Mediate nobles could have much higher titles and be much richer than immediate nobles,

Eg there were some knights (theoretically lower than barons) who were subject immediately to the Emperor. In the west of Germany there were some federations of imperial knights who were essentially pocket-sized sovereigns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Knight

There was an important distiction between Ritterstand (Knights) - who began as slave-knights (ministeriales) and Herrenstand (nobility). Barons and Freiherren belonged to the nobility, although only lower nobility, and were not represented in the Reichstag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerialis

[Username17]

The big thing to know is that there never was a kingdom of "Germany." The Deutsch people do not form their own nation until the founding of the German Empire in 1871 after a war between France and a bunch of German Kingdoms and other nations.

In 1871, the constituent pieces of the new German Empire were 4 Kingdoms, 6 Grand Duchies, 5 Duchies, 7 Principalities, 3 League Cities, and 2 Provinces recaptured from France. So the way that feudalism worked in "Germany" was pretty up in the air. There were a lot of things that were pretty different that are all called Germany today. But they seriously haven't even been called that very long.

-Username17

[virgil]

So being an immediate noble grants sovereignty second only to the Emperor within your territory?

I'm trying to understand the difference between such things as a Baron and a Count or Elector (or even Count of the Empire), especially on the power scale of things. Do they just collect taxes and the like, and send true criminals to higher courts (judging the small-time stuff on their own), followed by the occasional military assistance?

[baduin]

When? After the peace of Westphalia in 1648 German territorial states became sovereign. When people sometimes speak about the peace of Westphalia as the beginning of the modern conception of sovereignity, this applies only to German territorial states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Westphalia

The Empire had only a few common institutions: Emperor, Diet, and Imperial Chamber Court. Emperor was elected by 7 (later 8) Electors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire

Reichstag (Imperial Diet) gathered most important states and institutions of the Empire. Reading abouts its member is the quickest way to learn the composition of the Empire:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_ ... itution%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Re ... %281792%29

Reichskammergericht was the highest court of the empire, but the great majority of cases was decided by the courts of territorial states. The greatest states had privilegium de non appellando and were not subject to the Imperial Court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Chamber_Court

Taxes were gathered by territorial states.

[virgil]

So does having a Baron title actually mean anything, or is it just one of many that mean "noble & allowed to have territory"?

[K]

So does having a Baron title actually mean anything, or is it just one of many that mean "noble & allowed to have territory"?

As far as I can tell, it just means "leader of a city-state of a certain size." That means both more and less than it meant in England, for example, where it implied a position in a hierarchy as well as land ownership of a certain kind.

[baduin]

Title per se means nothing. As a baron, you could be a Reichsfreiherr, directly subordinate to the Emperor (but not a member of Reichstag) and with many governmental functions over your own land, or a big landowner in a Free Imperial City (so you had Reichsunmittelbarkeit only collectively), or a purely titular Reichsfreiherr (eg because your ancestors have been subordinated by a territorial ruler).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsfreiheit

You could be a mediate Freiherr, purely a big landowner, subject of eg the Margrave of Brandenburg.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiherr

The counts of Empire could be either small sovereign territorial rulers with a seat in Reichstag, or simply rich foreigners with a fancy title. You could buy such a title from the Emperor, who was always strapped for cash. In that case it gave you no rights at all, except a right to use a noble title.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graf

Good explanation of the higher and lower imperial nobility can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_st ... man_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Estate
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/hre.htm

A noble (usually titular) ruler of a city was a Burgrave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgrave


BTW, when I wrote earlier about "German" this shouldn't be understood literally, since the Holy Roman Empire included many nationalties, eg Czech.