The Dumbass Melee Fighter: let's just get rid of him.

[The 13 Wise Buttlords]

Seriously, just screw the archetype.

I mean, I'm all in favor of nerfing fly since it has its own set of problems, but even if fly didn't exist I'm just in favor of getting rid of this archetype altogether.

1) The Dragonball Z Solution: Every character of meaningful power flies. You get strong enough and you start flying.
1a) The Aladdin Solution: You stick to your sword or the other methods for most of your battles, but when you need to fly (when facing Jafar or the Harpie Queen or whoever), it turns into a minigame. Or you use your Chekov's gun. Whatever.

2) The Flynn/Spiderman Solution: Okay, so you might not want to give your hero the ability to out and out fly but you still want them to do the things that require flying. So let 'er rip. If your characters do enough

3) The Conan/Aragorn Solution: Carry a damn backup weapon. Ranged combat chews for non-magic characters, but that's a bug in the system. Rather than just making the DMF have to sit out of combat, he just has to deal with the fact that occasionally he works at reduced effectiveness. Like the rogue or wizard (theoretically) when facing undead.

4) The Captain America/Thor Solution: Melee and Ranged combat are interchangable. The DMF doesn't suffer any reduction in effectiveness when having to fight range, just a change in thematics. Your shield always comes back to you when thrown or your +2 shocking sword actually fires bolts of lightning.

5) The Men in Black/Kingdom Hearts Solution: Force your enemies to come to melee combat with you. Fighting flying/mounted monsters becomes a matter (minigame) of nullifying their tricks instead. If you're getting peppered by mounted archers, you do an intimidate/handle animal check so damn hardcore that the horses get spooked. If you're getting harrassed by pixies, start stomping on their mushroom houses until they come for a fair fight. Have your assistant steal one of the dragons' eggs and ghetto-stab the dragon as it comes down to take it back. Alternatively, you can settle for the Fastball Special or the Colossus Climb and then combat becomes a minigame of not getting thrown off.


Pretty much any of these would be better than the current system of 'DMF suck their thumbs and cry that the system isn't supporting their fundamentally broken archetype'. I'd rather get rid of the DMF than flying monsters and Mongol hordes.

[Calibron]

#4 will basically just happen at high levels(11+) when everyone is wielding artifacts or quasi-artifacts.

See here

Between levels where flying becomes a problem and you start wielding lightning bolts like you're Zeus or something any competent melee-centric character can get by with a combination of 2(flying mount, super jumping ability, have the wizard cast Wingclip[or whatever its called], whatever) and 3.

[CatharzGodfoot]

Ultimately big animals are all going to be 'dumbass melee fighters'. It's totally reasonable to have it gone as a foe type after low levels, though.

For players, you're totally right. There's no reason a warrior shouldn't stoop to using a flying carpet or a bow now and then. That's pretty much the difference between a melee fighter hand her dumbass cousin.


In Keith and Frank's Tome Series, all of the 'dumb melee classes' have smart options. The knight and the barbarian are both very effective archers without any investment beyond a cracked shortbow: those d6's really help. The monk gets movement abilities any some crazy spell-like effects. The fighter can become an instant expert in most areas of combat, and has enough feats to invest in both ranged and melee combat at higher levels. All of them can benefit from a potion of levitation.

In all but one case, the key point is that each class gets equipment independent abilities which can apply just as well to 'backup' attack forms.

[Psychic Robot]

#3. A fighter too dumb to carry a back-up weapon is, in fact, a dumbass melee fighter.

[Jerry]

#3. A fighter too dumb to carry a back-up weapon is, in fact, a dumbass melee fighter.

In my Tome game, I had a two-weapon sword fighter that pretty much refused to buy a bow. When the group was on a gondola through a canyon while Hill Giants were pelting rocks, he tried to climb the 120 foot tall canyon. By the time that he reached the top, all but one of the Hill Giants were dead.

[K]

#3. A fighter too dumb to carry a back-up weapon is, in fact, a dumbass melee fighter.

In my Tome game, I had a two-weapon sword fighter that pretty much refused to buy a bow. When the group was on a gondola through a canyon while Hill Giants were pelting rocks, he tried to climb the 120 foot tall canyon. By the time that he reached the top, all but one of the Hill Giants were dead.

Should have bought a flight item or mount.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

Just to mention that you did not include the Samurai as an effective archer. Believe me, it is, mostly because of that glorious x3 crit on the longbow. The Samurai archer can usually bring down his fair share of flying creatures without a feat investment.

[Psychic Robot]

Just to mention that you did not include the Samurai as an effective archer. Believe me, it is, mostly because of that glorious x3 crit on the longbow. The Samurai archer can usually bring down his fair share of flying creatures without a feat investment.

The samurai is effective at anything?

Or do ye speak of the OA samurai?

[JonSetanta]

This "Tome" Samurai: http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=33294

[Judging__Eagle]

In Keith and Frank's Tome Series, all of the 'dumb melee classes' have smart options. The knight and the barbarian are both very effective archers without any investment beyond a cracked shortbow: those d6's really help.

Uh, aren't their d6's coming into melee attacks only for a barbarian?

Knights get their dice on their next set of attacks, so ranged works, but Rage Dice are strictly for melee.

Of course, the Barbarian can use Blitz on ranged attacks to really up their damage (and could use Blitz with TWF-ed darts or daggers); and many Barbarian builds will pick up that feat (as well as picking up TWF). Point Blank Shot and Sniper are possible, but very unlikely on a Barbarian.

[CatharzGodfoot]

In Keith and Frank's Tome Series, all of the 'dumb melee classes' have smart options. The knight and the barbarian are both very effective archers without any investment beyond a cracked shortbow: those d6's really help.

Uh, aren't their d6's coming into melee attacks only for a barbarian?

Oops.

Anyone can use blitz, and I don't think that it should apply to ranged attacks anyway, although I'll admit that's not a legitimate argument against barbarian ranged power. Flight is probably the way to go.