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Maxus
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Post by Maxus »

Koumei wrote:
Caliborn wrote:once my health insurance kicks in I think I'll go get that checked out.
As someone from a "communist socialist" country, I wish to laugh.

Anyway, my dad is like that - apparently, when he was in Scotland, he went about in shorts and a T-shirt while the locals - big tough Scottish men (you have to be tough in a land with waist-high thistles and no underpants) - were rugged up in blankets next to the fire in the pub.

I, on the other hand, am your classic girl/serpent: I need heat, and will support global warming if only it means the temperature can warm the fuck up. I also have plans to plunge the planet into the Sun just to make sure I get the heat I need.
I've always wondered how that worked out. My First Aid class is right next to the AC unit for a rather sprawling building. It's always got a breeze in it, and it's rather cool. Everyone swears it's freezing, and comes to class in sweats, but I'm in my shorts and t-shirt, rather enjoyable the cooldown after walking across the campus to get to the damn building.

My observations likewise indicate a sizeable fraction of the female population defines "freezing-ass cold" as "feeling any sensation of coolness", something which puzzles me greatly. 60 degrees with a slight breeze is a long shot from 30 degrees with the lazy wind, yet the reaction is identical in either case...
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Cielingcat
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Post by Cielingcat »

Here's how it works. If it feels cold, it's too fucking cold. If it feels hot, it's too fucking hot.
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Post by SphereOfFeetMan »

Maxus wrote: "Do you live on a farm?"

"Do people in Alabama really marry their sisters?"
Heh. My friends Aunt lives in Iowa. She doesn't get offended by such questions, and instead has fun with it. One time she successfully convinced a snobbish woman that people in Iowa don't use currency. Instead, the woman believed people in Iowa function completely within a barter system.

You might find it fun to try sometime. See how far people's disdain for others from "backwards" places can go.
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Maxus
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Post by Maxus »

SphereOfFeetMan wrote:
Maxus wrote: "Do you live on a farm?"

"Do people in Alabama really marry their sisters?"
Heh. My friends Aunt lives in Iowa. She doesn't get offended by such questions, and instead has fun with it. One time she successfully convinced a snobbish woman that people in Iowa don't use currency. Instead, the woman believed people in Iowa function completely within a barter system.

You might find it fun to try sometime. See how far people's disdain for others from "backwards" places can go.
My cousin had fun with a couple who were visiting. Her response was, "No closer than first cousins."

I'm not that great at bullshitting off the top of my head, though, so I just give the straight answer.
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JonSetanta
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Post by JonSetanta »

Maxus wrote:If my experiences in NY and Chicago were any indication of what 'real' cities were like, I think I'll pass on that and stay around here. Once I get my degree, I can help look for oil out in the Gulf in exchange for obscene amounts of cash and amazing job security, and, what's more, I can get real sweet tea at restaurants.
Jersey kids flood my state for cheap education, but bitch about how "south" they are. They sneer, cold-shoulder, and whine.
So, if the Jerseyian invaders are any indication of how possibly rude, presumptive, bitter, and caustic New Jersey is, my advice is to not use it as method for judging city life.
My advice: Try New York City. You might like it... but don't do SoHo after dark.

UmaroVI wrote: Huh? There's no evidence at all to suggest Lovecraft was autistic, other than the mistaken notion that he was some sort of recluse who communicated only by mail (propagated because we still have most of his letters). He had a number of friends and traveled frequently.
Well of course he didn't stay in his room in all daylight hours, writing privately like Emily Dickinson. Most of our view of him is through his stories, descriptions by others, photos, and letters. That's pretty sparse, really.
In his life he fell in love, went to war, and kept contact with friends, but of course that's all possible. I'm not stating that he's a paranoid and withdrawn individual.
However, he might have had difficulty in social expression and understanding, as evident in his writing and behavior.
Based on what I've collected of him in the last 12 years of Lovecraft fandom, therefore I think Lovecraft was a high-functioning autistic, and I assume so, but I have neither psychology degree nor empyrical evidence to prove so.


Seriously, when I write "autistic" I want the term accepted in a general sense and not to be used in black-an-white extremes.

While many moderately-social, intelligent-yet-quirky individuals could be of "Asperger's syndrome", technically the method of thinking and behavior falls under the huge category of Broader Autistic Phenotype.
BAP describes a collection of specific behaviors but one could possibly express some of the behaviors to be considered autistic, not all of them.

For an individually competent human to be autistic does not guarantee that they behave like Sean Penn in I Am Sam.
I've seen this misconception evident previously here on TGD, but I was shocked that responses were no different from the common reaction in the world at large. To claim that a person, dead or living, has a 'disability' is sadly taken as an insult to integrity, but the error of far too many that high-functioning autism is an insult reveals even more faults of ones own character than the claim of autism.
It's not an issue that can be informed forcefully (such as, unfortunately, the popular myth lately that mercury causes low-functioning autism) due to stiff resistance by deep-set cultural or individual assumptions.

Disclaimer: No emotion was expended in writing this rant. However it is a subject I encounter, and challenge, all too often.
Last edited by JonSetanta on Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
UmaroVI
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Post by UmaroVI »

Yes, I know what an autistic spectrum disorder is. I also know that people are far too quick to jump to the conclusion that anyone who's even mildly socially awkward has one, for some reason.

I can't really argue with you about whether Lovecraft did because all you actually said on that topic is that you've collected information on him for 12 years, but you don't actually want to present any evidence to suggest he had an autistic spectrum disorder.
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Post by Crissa »

Another, Orson Scott Card, suggest armed revolution to disenfranchise gays. Apologies for not linking directly, I don't want to reward them.

-Crissa
Neeeek
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Post by Neeeek »

Crissa wrote:Another, Orson Scott Card, suggest armed revolution to disenfranchise gays. Apologies for not linking directly, I don't want to reward them.

-Crissa
I stopped reading that when it became clear that Card has no fucking clue how our system of government works, nor the primary purpose of the courts in relation to the other branches (the courts are supposed to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority). We don't live in a democracy because the Founders knew that a straight democracy is just mob rule, and that's as bad as a dictatorship.

That said, I'm waiting for a straight couple to sue to gain domestic partnership benefits. The funny thing about CA laws is that being married is more or less strictly worse than having a domestic partnership. The only real difference is it is more expensive and takes longer to dissolve a marriage.
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Post by Calibron »

It'd be nice if "Marriage" was not a government recognized institution and was solely a cultural and/or religious arrangement and domestic partnerships took their place when it came to taxes and rights of visit and all that crap. De-secularize religion, push the government close to benevolent agnosticism(hopefully), and kill the fucking controversy; getting both the gay rights activists assholes and faux-puritanical ultra-rightwing fvckers to shut up about at least one topic.

'course they'd still fight about marriage within the church(or what have you), but at least we wouldn't have lobbyists throwing fucktonnes of money at the issue in a retarded tug-o-war over the hearts and minds of the noble citizens of the Great American Empire.
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Post by Neeeek »

Caliborn wrote:It'd be nice if "Marriage" was not a government recognized institution and was solely a cultural and/or religious arrangement and domestic partnerships took their place when it came to taxes and rights of visit and all that crap.

You are aware that marriage is and always has been primarily a legal relationship, not a religious one right? And that churches are allow to marry or not marry whomever they choose within that church? And that the entire gay marriage controversy is and always has been an issue dealing with legal rights?

There are references to legal marriages in the freaking Epic of Gilgamesh from 5000 BCE, long before any known religious connotations existed.
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Post by Calibron »

Yeah and Theocratic Despotism used to be the bees knees. I'm all for the traditional/conservative approach when it works, but having double standards and ass-loads of time-and-money-wasting controversy primarily due to the title of a government recognized institution is utter stupidity. Retire the name and a great deal of the controversy dies down. Course this'll never actually happen, so, *shrug*.
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Post by Draco_Argentum »

Caliborn is right, removing legal references to marriage would be one way around the right wing. It might be just as hard to do that though.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa »

But the legal ramifications of marriage are important.

This is one adult who trumps the familial chain. One person trusted with your decisions in your absence or unconsciousness. One person who gains rights to your rights and contracts.

That's as mundane as visiting in a hospital, getting to choose arrangements in the case of disability or death, or weird settings like assuming loans, debts, or the lease upon your house when your spouse is gone.

We've added in things like dependents - married people are dependents of each other; there's no other legal way to have an adult be your dependent in our legal system without them being your child by family.

So really, arguing that there should be no legal definition is crazy. It least to widows losing their spouse's retirement income, being kicked out of their spouse's home, not being able to see their spouse in the hospital, being charged taxes as though one of them doesn't exist, not being able to share children and familial bonds, and being cut out of death arrangements.

Isn't that pretty sucky?

Didn't I already mention that the Federal Government charges my spouse and I over six thousand extra dollars per annum because of our relationship?

-Crissa
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Post by Maj »

As far as I can tell, what Caliborn and Draco Argentum are actually saying is that the word "marriage" ought to be tossed and the legal relationship referred to as something completely different.

For reasons I don't fully understand, people take issue with the use of the word "marriage" to describe anything other than a male/female monogamous relationship. They don't have a problem with the idea of "civil unions" or something else like "Long-Term Legally Binding Agreement Between Persons" or what have you, but there's a problem with the specific word "marriage."
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Post by Bigode »

Maj wrote:For reasons I don't fully understand, people take issue with the use of the word "marriage" to describe anything other than a male/female monogamous relationship. They don't have a problem with the idea of "civil unions" or something else like "Long-Term Legally Binding Agreement Between Persons" or what have you, but there's a problem with the specific word "marriage."
Probably because the unnecessarily long technical term makes it easier to regard people as aberrations.
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Post by Draco_Argentum »

Yeah fucks me but there you go, gay civil unions are less of a problem than marriage.

Gay and straight people must be using the same laws for their partnerships*. I don't actually care if its called marriage or not so a work around where everyone gets civil unions is fine with me. Just so long as I can get the same legal rights with a guy or a girl.


*If they are the same rights but fall under different laws we'll have to fight tooth and nail to get the gay version updated to match the straight one every time straight couples get something.
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Post by Crissa »

The average person would not be okay with anything which redefines marriage as a civil union.

And there are literally thousands of laws which would have to be re-written to do this, at many levels of government.

Lastly, those who what to literally disenfranchise gays from any semblance of rights outnumber the few who sit upon the fence. So any half measure is doomed by that big group - of which Card is one of.

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Post by Bigode »

Crissa wrote:And there are literally thousands of laws which would have to be re-written to do this, at many levels of government.
How so?
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
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Post by Neeeek »

Bigode wrote:
Crissa wrote:And there are literally thousands of laws which would have to be re-written to do this, at many levels of government.
How so?
Marriage is actually a contract that grants about 1500 individual rights. The actual number varies based on jurisdiction. Changing the individual laws may or may not be necessary so much as a blanket change could be leveled, but it would have to be done on the federal level, each individual state level and probably every city and county.
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Post by Bigode »

Neeeek wrote:Marriage is actually a contract that grants about 1500 individual rights. The actual number varies based on jurisdiction. Changing the individual laws may or may not be necessary so much as a blanket change could be leveled, but it would have to be done on the federal level, each individual state level and probably every city and county.
Yeah, sure it'd have to be at a lot of levels, but indeed I didn't see how a blanket change would be so difficult (I mean in organizational terms; of course the government inertia's totally there).
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
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Post by Neeeek »

Bigode wrote:Yeah, sure it'd have to be at a lot of levels, but indeed I didn't see how a blanket change would be so difficult (I mean in organizational terms; of course the government inertia's totally there).
It would be a very expensive nightmare. Legislatures would have to change literally thousands of statutes. Finding and changing all of them would be more complicated than most people realize. Just granting marriage to same-sex couples is much more efficient and frankly, the alternative is just plain insulting, not only to gay people, but anyone with half a brain.
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Post by Bigode »

Neeeek wrote:It would be a very expensive nightmare. Legislatures would have to change literally thousands of statutes. Finding and changing all of them would be more complicated than most people realize. Just granting marriage to same-sex couples is much more efficient and frankly, the alternative is just plain insulting, not only to gay people, but anyone with half a brain.
I do understand how it'd be more efficient, but how'd "defining marriage as civil union" be insulting? You mean in the sense of there being people "more civilly united" than others (in which case I'd agree)?
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
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Post by Neeeek »

Bigode wrote:I do understand how it'd be more efficient, but how'd "defining marriage as civil union" be insulting? You mean in the sense of there being people "more civilly united" than others (in which case I'd agree)?
Because it's trying to claim that maybe legal equality is okay, but marriage is too good for gay people. Fuck that noise.
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Post by Crissa »

First off; anything that took 'marriage' out as a possible legal word would destroy thousands of other laws. That means thousands of documents would have to be re-written... Voted on, passed, etc.

Secondly, you're working against a group which will not work with you on this. They're specifically trying to enshrine producing children and disenfranchise women and gays. They've passed laws which make it illegal to give the same treatment to non-married people as married people. (You know, so if you have health insurance, your kids and roommate cannot get health insurance if married couples get health insurance. Or so that an adult cannot specify someone who they aren't married to as power of attorney. Or any of a thousand different things...)

So the mere suggestion that you could blanket change it without these guys is just as insulting as not defending adults' right to choose their own partner.

And in nearly no cases is domestic partnership 'better'. Only in cases where marriage would annul a prior benefit - usually for a widow or survivor of a marriage - and that's just kinda cheating. Should just change the prior benefit instead.

-Crissa
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Post by SphereOfFeetMan »

Crissa wrote:First off; anything that took 'marriage' out as a possible legal word would destroy thousands of other laws. That means thousands of documents would have to be re-written... Voted on, passed, etc.
Neeeek wrote:Marriage is actually a contract that grants about 1500 individual rights. The actual number varies based on jurisdiction. Changing the individual laws may or may not be necessary so much as a blanket change could be leveled, but it would have to be done on the federal level, each individual state level and probably every city and county.
Anybody have evidence for why a single law at the federal level could or could not resolve a 1-word replacement in older laws?
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