Vancian Mage

[Bigode]

Inspired by the pact maker, obviously. I'm aware that there's no spells at will in Vance - that one's just acknowledging the need to give the character useful stuff to do all the time.

The most useful feedback, I think, would be: whether this character can play the same game as a rogue, how it'll fare against same-CR opposition (including PC classes), any spells in particular that may break when at will (mind the spell maintenance clause, though) or when uncapped.

HD: d4.
BAB: low.
Saves: Will.
Skill Points: 4.
Class Skills: Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge (all), Profession, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device*.
*: as written, I consider it broken myself. I'll just assume that people who use it either disagree, or have already fixed it to something they're comfortable with as I did.

Spellcasting: Int-based, prepared. No spell ever has an effect cap.
Spell List: all core spells*.
Save DCs: 10 + half character level + Int.
Spell Failure: armor worn non-proficiently.
Spell Maintenance: no more than (Int modifier) spell effects can be active at once.
[Some spells with an instantaneous duration will be considered permanent instead, to limit them too. List in construction.]
*: except whatever gets banned from the game itself for being broken - I'm advocating polymorph at will precisely as much as I'm advocating its existance (i.e. not at all).

Spells per Day*

Code: Select all

0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10

∞	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
∞	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
∞	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
∞	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
-	∞	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
-	∞	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
-	∞	-	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-
-	∞	-	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-
-	-	∞	-	-	3	-	-	-	-	-
-	-	∞	-	-	3	-	-	-	-	-
-	-	∞	-	-	-	3	-	-	-	-
-	-	∞	-	-	-	3	-	-	-	-
-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	3	-	-	-
-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	3	-	-	-
-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	3	-	-
-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	3	-	-
-	-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	4	-
-	-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	4	-
-	-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	-	4
-	-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	-	4

*: note that these values aren't cumulative between levels.

Gear Proficiency: simple weapons.
Advanced Learning: at each level, a non-core spell may be added to the spell list.
Spell Reshaping: 1 metamagic point per day per level. As part of casting a spell, up to (half Int modifier) metamagic points can be spent. Each point adds either one level of free metamagic or +1 to the spell's save DC.
Bonus Feats: one metamagic feat every 2 levels.
Spell Mastery: all 0-level spells are always prepared. The spell level increases by 1 every 4 levels beyond the 1st.

[virgil]

If you're going for infinite low-grade spells, would the warlock be easier to kit-bash from, rather than attempting to modify the spell-list on a per-spell basis?

Now granted, you've gone and taken my idea . I've been considering making a more magically oriented vancian spellcaster. It was to be something that instead of using his magic to give him martial prowess, to use his magic in place of; not unlike a cross between the monk and the warlock.

[Bigode]

Possibly easier indeed, but if wanted the class not to suck, I'd pretty much have to write extensive new material, that'd have no compatibility with anything else. Your idea doesn't overlap with anything present and would be cool - one question, though: do you know how you'd make this guy actually use few daily spells on buffing and not suck (of course, there ARE ways, just asking)?

[virgil]

I don't think the warlock out-and-out svcks. It just needs a bit more oomph in order to compete with the other primary casters.

Are you asking how to prevent the daily spells from being used on buffs, or how to have the option not svck? Maybe have seperate lists if you want to prevent (one for dailies, another for at-wills)?

[Bigode]

No, I mean your class - as per your description, it sounds like the daily spells WILL be buffs; how will you make them good enough?

[the_unthinkable]

Spells per Day*

Code: Select all

0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10

∞	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
∞	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
∞	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
∞	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
-	∞	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
-	∞	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
-	∞	-	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-
-	∞	-	-	2	-	-	-	-	-	-
-	-	∞	-	-	3	-	-	-	-	-
-	-	∞	-	-	3	-	-	-	-	-
-	-	∞	-	-	-	3	-	-	-	-
-	-	∞	-	-	-	3	-	-	-	-
-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	3	-	-	-
-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	3	-	-	-
-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	3	-	-
-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	3	-	-
-	-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	4	-
-	-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	4	-
-	-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	-	4
-	-	-	-	∞	-	-	-	-	-	4

*: note that these values aren't cumulative between levels.

I noticed that this list doesn't have the values going continuously. Like at level 5, am I able to cast spells of 0th lvl ∞/day, of 1st lvl ∞/day, of 2nd lvl 2/day, of 3rd lvl 2/day, or am I restricted to casting 1st ∞/day and 3rd 2/day?

[virgil]

Yes, at level 5, you are restricted to infinite 1st level spells and 2 3rd level spells per day; unable to cast from the 2nd/0th level spell slot.

As for my variation idea, I'm not meaning the daily spells will be buffs, but instead of having armor/weapon proficiency, fighter feats, good BaB and all that; give him more supernatural abilities.

[Bigode]

Guys, you can cast any spell with a higher-level spell slot if you want/need to ... (the pact maker might've been intended to be an exception, but I'd be against that should it be the case).

And I'd like to see said variation, of course.

[virgil]

I misspoke, I meant that at 5th level you would only get two third level spell slots. You can choose to place 3rd level spells in it, or you can cast a lower level spell with that same slot, just as you would as a normal caster. Using lower level spells, like normal casters, doesn't inherently raise the save DC or anything like that; which was why I gave bonus metamagic feats to the Pact Maker so he can get Heighten Spell (as well as a bunch of Suddens).