The Gaming Den

Monte Cook wrote:I'd be willing to bet that there is indeed something keeping them from publishing a new magazine. The absolute smartest thing they could do is to say Dragon and Dungeon are ending, but Wyvern and Labyrinth are starting up the very next month, and even picking up with the same issue numbers. Magazine distributors have monthly "slots" to fill. That's why it's so hard to start a new magazine. It almost has to supplant another one to get a new slot, or you have to go through the major hassle of convincing them to create a new slot. Paizo could just tell its distributors "hey, we're stopping these mags, but here's two others to fill those slots." They could tell their subscribers that Wyvern and Labyrinth subscriptions will just take up where Dragon and Dungeon left off. Sales would still likely decline, but they wouldn't be paying WotC any money, so maybe it would work out OK.

The folks at Paizo aren't dumb. They'd be doing that if they could. So there's really only one explanation. WotC's forcing them to some kind of agreement where they can't put out magazines (maybe for some limited period of time--a sort of non-compete clause lasting a year or two).

Read Paizo's press release for their new subscription product Pathfinder. They're very careful about calling this magazine a "product." It's the only way to get around what must be some kind of restriction.

This also provides us the answer for why WotC would do this. If the magazines were doing poorly, WotC wouldn't care if Paizo put out others. No, it's just the opposite. They're doing well, and likely WotC products--probably specifically adventures--aren't doing as well as WotC wants. There's been some loud voices at WotC crying that Dragon and Dungeon (particularly Dungeon) are too good a value. They're too good for the customer, and smart customers buy them rather than regular products. This was true when WotC put out the magazines, and it's been true under the Paizo banner as well. I'm guessing declining sales gave these voices the evidence they needed to axe the magazines.




I should point out that I don't have any insider knowledge about the cancelation of the magazines, other than the bit about the voices inside WotC that used to call for their cancellation.

As I said in another thread, I am really saddened by this. Some of my fondest "back in the day" memories are sitting around my friend's room in Junior High reading Dragon (he was the only one who's mom would let him have a subscription). No, not reading Dragon--studying it. Devouring it. Pouring over the cover, practically memorizing the articles, and pondering the ads, dreaming about what those products would be like. (Here's something that no one seems to have yet mentioned--I purchased a lot of products over the years based on the ads in Dragon. There will literally be no forum for those kinds of ads anymore.)

I should point out that I have nothing but respect for the guys who have been working on the magazines the last few years. In particular, I think a lot of praise needs to go in the direction of Erik Mona, who really turned those magazines into worthy and worthwhile things--but then again, maybe that was the problem.

I also think that this is likely a huge mistep on WotC's part. No matter what the reason. With 4th edition coming, Dragon is worth hanging onto just for the marketing of that release alone. When we prepared to launch 3E, Dragon was great for getting the word out, releasing previews, and getting people excited. When the game actually came out, both magazines were invaluable for supporting the game. It seems foolish to say it today, but back then I was worried that no one was going to ever create prestige classes other than those in the DMG, and the idea would die on the vine. Dragon was a great forum for me to create additional prestige classes as well as an article or two for instructing people on how to create their own. That's just one example.

Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1177032400[/unixtime]]Dungeon mag hasn't made a profit in at least ten years, though.

Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1177356742[/unixtime]]Industry rumour?

Anyhow, has everyone seen (and signed, I suppose) the petition to continue the Dungeon and Dragon magazines?
http://www.petitiononline.com/sdadm582/petition.html

-Crissa

Leress at [unixtime wrote:1177373587[/unixtime]]

Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1177356742[/unixtime]]Industry rumour?

Anyhow, has everyone seen (and signed, I suppose) the petition to continue the Dungeon and Dragon magazines?
http://www.petitiononline.com/sdadm582/petition.html

-Crissa

No because online petitions don't work

Leress at [unixtime wrote:1177373587[/unixtime]]No because online petitions don't work

Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1177383585[/unixtime]]
What would work, that you can do? Create a paypal account and have people put in a few dollars to bribe Hasbro to keep it running?

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1177115820[/unixtime]]
Probably the most insightfl thing I've seen on the subject so far.

Count_Arioch_the_28th at [unixtime wrote:1177461864[/unixtime]]Maybe they want to turn every single page into an ad, as opposed to the pages that had gaming content in them?

Count_Arioch_the_28th wrote:Maybe they want to turn every single page into an ad, as opposed to the pages that had gaming content in them?

Count_Arioch_the_28th at [unixtime wrote:1177461864[/unixtime]]Geez, what do they want? Dragon magazine was already the "WotC is so great we fellate them every issue" magazine.

Maybe they want to turn every single page into an ad, as opposed to the pages that had gaming content in them?