Who needs bombs?

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Josh_Kablack
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Who needs bombs?

Post by Josh_Kablack »

When all you need to ground the plane is A crayon and some loose leaf ??
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Hey_I_Can_Chan
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Re: Who needs bombs?

Post by Hey_I_Can_Chan »

An aside…

None of the 56 passengers aboard US Airways Flight 3441 was injured, and no bomb was immediately found, authorities said.


I hate over-correction. Newspapers should know better. When using the words some, all, most, any, and none, plurality or singularity can only be determined by context. In the case above, none is plural. You would no more say None of the passengers was injured than you would say None of the passengers is here. Sigh.
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Re: Who needs bombs?

Post by Crissa »

[url=http://kynn.livejournal.com/607229.html wrote:Next of Kynn[/url]]Yet another case of busting a brown, Muslim-lookin' guy trying to fly:

A Cook County judge has decided there is enough evidence to prosecute a man who says an airport security guard misheard him when she thought he said that a sexual device in his backpack was actually a bomb.

Mardin Amin claims he actually told the guard the small, black object was a "pump" - as in a penis pump.

Amin's attorney said her client was embarrassed to explain the object in front of his mother, who was traveling with him, so he whispered. The guard misunderstood, and thought he said "bomb," according to defense attorney Eileen O'Neill-Burke.

"His mother is standing there so, under his breath, he says, 'It's a pump. Put it away. Put it away,'" O'Neill-Burke told The Associated Press on Thursday. The guard asked him again and he repeated that the object was a pump, the attorney said.

O'Neill-Burke added that Amin, an Iraqi, has a thick accent and she herself had trouble understanding him until he brought the pump to her office and showed it to her. She said she recently learned that Arabic speakers sometimes have trouble distinguishing the sounds "p" and "b."

However, Judge Gerald Winiecki decided there was sufficient evidence for the case to move forward after the female security guard testified that she heard Amin "clearly" say the word bomb on Aug. 16 at O'Hare International Airport.


More information on bilabials:

CounterPuncher and Arabic-speaker David Price clarifies the affair.

"As an anthropologist and Arabic speaker," Price tells CounterPunch," let me call attention to a vital aspect of this story. Simply put, Arabic has no 'Ps' and all native Arabic speakers voice their bilabials as 'Bs', thus it is pretty obvious that any native Arabic speaker with an accent would say the word 'pump' as the word 'bumb' --which the poorly-trained and overly paranoid airport security worker mis-heard as 'bomb.'

"As has happened here, with newspapers such as the Chicago Sun Times, news pieces with the words 'penis pump' will generate guffaws from sea to shinning sea, but by not stating what the obvious context of this misunderstanding is, the Sun Times is adding to a dangerous climate of American anti-Arab sentiment."
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We have nothing to fear but fear itself

Post by Josh_Kablack »

The bright spot in this new age of obsessive-compulsive paranoia is that as of 2 hours ago, I'm now getting paid to sit around and do nothing, except open a door whenever anyone calls from the callbox outside. Yes anyone, I'm not being paid to tjeck IDs or anything, I'm being paid to open the door, which has to remain locked after 5 pm for "security reasons". I got this assignment as a reward for being exceptionally productive on the project we're still way behind on. I'd be crying over the stupidity and waste of tax dollars, if I wasn't laughing to the bank.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Re: We have nothing to fear but fear itself

Post by Josh_Kablack »

Arrghh. My laughing lasted all of 12 minutes.

Linky

The skit performed by Conan O’Brien onboard of a private jet that was supposed to remind everyone about “Lost”, one of this year’s outsiders at the ceremony, proved to be another embarrassing mistake for the organizers.

NBC has already apologized for the plane gag consisted in this year’s Emmy Awards programme as the clip was shown in the same day with the air crush in Lexington, Kentucky that killed 49 people.


:flames:

The Apology I'd give were I working at NBC wrote:
Dear <insert name here>,

We offer out heartfelt condolences for your recent, tragic loss. An while it is unfortunate that a joke we aired may have caused you additional distress, it is company policy never to apologize for innocent coinceidences. We humbly suggest that you seek counseling to help your through your time of need and overcome your oversensitivity to the world around you.


"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Josh_Kablack
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Re: We have nothing to fear but fear itself

Post by Josh_Kablack »

Hey, why aren't we now fighting a War against understaffing..?

Oh, right because that would requiring paying employees more instead of cutting inheritance and capital gains taxes.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Re: We have nothing to fear but fear itself

Post by Krowout »

The Penis Bomb story just cracks me up.

Better safe than sorry. There is no right to fly and companies in the passanger flight industry have the obligation (to passangers and shareholders) to take as many precautions as they can.

In most cases, there are false alarms. But then sometimes we have cases where legitimate bombers and hijackers are prevented from killing people.

This is similar to the fact that when a driver is stopped for suspected DUI, only about 1/2 the drivers are actually drunk. It sucks for the 1/2 that are not but it saves lives.

And we're back to wondering if we should relax security and potentially experiencing more disasters or keeping/increasing them and suffering further inconvenience to legitimate travelers.

As far as profiling goes - when 80 year old women start blowing things up, they should be singled out for extra examination too. But as long as bombers tend to match a specific profile, everyone that fits that mold absolutely should be thoroughly screened.

I wear a beard and until recently, had long hair. You better believe I am and have been frequently subjected to profiling but I know it's coming. I expect it. And I'm not doing anything wrong so I bear no grudge over it. Instead I make light of it and move on with my life.

An arab flying around with a penis pump should expect some extra investigation when getting through security (why it had to be in a carry on still confounds me). Who knows - it could be a test of security as a preliminary investigation for a more sinister plot down the road - or an innocent case of a man who must pump his penis every hour on the hour.
Either way, I don't see a problem with security personnel erring on the side of caution.

As far as a War on Understaffing - As an employer, I wage that war constantly. And other small business owners I talk to echo my issues in this arena. The problem with filling possitions is mainly the age old adage: 'It's hard to find good help.' I plan on hiring 3 people to fill each spot I need because 1 will flake out, one will be no good, and if I'm lucky, the third will do a good job and show up.
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Re: We have nothing to fear but fear itself

Post by Zherog »

Krowout at [unixtime wrote:1157125722[/unixtime]](why it had to be in a carry on still confounds me).


It's a long flight; gotta do something to pass the time. :uptosomething:
You can't fix stupid.

"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives." ~ Jackie Robinson
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Crissa
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Re: We have nothing to fear but fear itself

Post by Crissa »

Treat your employees right, and they'll treat you right. The fact that you have to hire three is overshadowed by the fact that a person looking for a job gets flaked out by a magnitude more employers than people you hired. In other words, it's a lame excuse; just hire more trainees.

There is no right to fly and companies in the passanger flight industry have the obligation (to passangers and shareholders) to take as many precautions as they can.

Security is neither created by or policies influenced by the 'passenger flight industry'. This person was not arrested by a flight attendant or any other employee of an airline.

...And lots of people only fly with carry-on baggage, or did until recently. Most air trips have a return within two days.

-Crissa

PS:
http://www.babeland.com/penis-pump.html ... r][br]It's clear plastic with a bulb pump. How does it look like a bomb? In no way does it look like a bomb. Did he say it was a bomb? Read the link about his regional accent. No 'P' in his home language.

Lastly... How many bombings in the US in the last fifteen years were done by 'brown people'? How many by 'white people'? How about airplanes ever hijacked in the US?

Don't be ignorant.
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Re: We have nothing to fear but fear itself

Post by Zherog »

Now stick that pump in a bag, and look at it in an x-ray machine. What it looks like to the eye is meaningless; what matters is what it looks like on that x-ray machine.

Yes, once they open the bag and start looking through it, it's gonna be obvious that it's not a bomb. But can you honestly tell me that you could tell the difference between the pump in the first picture and a grenade on a quick look of an x-ray machine?
You can't fix stupid.

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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Josh_Kablack »

On the pump, the screeners were completely right to pull the guy out of line and inspect more thoroughly. Dude had a suspiscious device, and said that it was something that sounded like "bomb" to the screeners.

Where I run into issues with the government handling of this is the criminal prosecution. In most juridstictions, the directly equivalant "crime" making false 911 calls is a misdemeanor offense (frequently prosecuted as multiple misdemeanors). Putting the guy in jail for three years over what is either a case of idiocy to avoid embarassment or a simple misunderstanding of a thick accent would be insane.

And racial profiling is idiotic, because it discriminates in a way that fuels rage while giving enemies an easy way to reduce their risk of detection. Have you forgotten that the Oklahoma City bombings were initially denounced as the work of Islamic Extremists? A combination of random screening and behavioural profiling is a much better way to go.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Crissa »

But they didn't just pull him out of the line and inspect more thoroughly - they arrested him.

Where was the inspection?

He's up for a felony for having been heard saying 'bomb'. Presumed innocent?

-Crissa

PS - A grenade is a solid object. A rubber bulb is... About as dense as a balloon. The screener should be screened for not knowing what a rubber bulb was.
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Tokorona »

Really? Did you notice that in an X-Ray machine it's no longer Solid. And in securirty, you aren 't presumed innocent. Unless you hvae a solution, please, don't complain about it.


Now, on to another comment. Out of most terrorists attacks, I can think of 2, compared to 10 that were exeucted by radical Islamic extremists. (Oklahoma Ciy, anthrax attacks. Compare that to both WTC attacks, numerous hijacks, the entire Middle East situation, killing the Israeli Olypmic Team, bombing a German discotheque..). It almost looks like a trend.

When your ethniciity tends to do more attacks, expect to be profiled more often.. Just the same as I expect to wait 2 or so hours in security, if you have something that _looks_ like a bomb, well...

Now, I disagree with profiling. You should really only limit yourself to behavioral and anything you have tips on. But don't expect a governemnt that needs to find the easiest way, quickly to do that. It's insane.
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Crissa »

Sorry, Toko. You're wrong.

http://www.fbi.gov/publications.htm

Read. I don't feel like digesting this one for you.

And solutions?

[*]Don't assume everyone is a criminal.
[*]Have a knowledge of a wide number of consumer items.
[*]Have a solid knowledge of what basic building materials look like under the scanners.
[*]Have a knowledge of a wide number of accents and languages - if one agent cannot have them all, have an agent on staff who does.

When your ethnicity is blamed for more attacks, you shouldn't be blamed for them yourself. Even if your ethnicity does do more attacks... This is the United States. We don't do that.

-Crissa
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Tokorona »

There is no logical reason why not to, besides that it's unfair. So? If you want security, you sacrifice freedom, you sacrifice good taste. This is quite clear. You cannot have it both ways. You also cannot expect them to spend a month or more training people and have good security. There is only so much you can learn. Honestly, while I disagree with profiling, it may happen. Mistakes will happen. THere is no point in picking at mistakes, unless you can expalin to me how they are expected to keep track of potential bombers.

One, is to frisk everyone. The other is to train people to pick up on behaviors, which requires even MORE Training. Airport security isn't going to magically improve overnight, espcially since the bureaceacy is not really accountable, until another disaster.

(that said, I said you should expect it, not that it's right.)
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Crissa
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Crissa »

Did you just conveniently forget that you were totally wrong about the racial composition of terrorist acts?

Or that I answered your question?

It isn't an either-or proposition between freedom and relative safety. There is no reason to live in fear of things which couldn't happen, let alone don't.

Don't let the facts stand in the way.

-Crissa
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Josh_Kablack »

Yeah, I gots a solution:

QUIT SCREENING PEOPLE BEFORE THEY GET ON AIRPLANES. DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND QUIT WASTING MY TIME AND TAX DOLLARS!

The terrorist tactic of taking over airplanes and crashing them into buildings lasted for all of 90 minutes before free men with ready access to information decided that it was worth their very own lives to counter this tactic. It won't work again in our lifetimes, now that we've ditched the assumption that hijackers just plan on rerouting the plane and will eventually be willing to trade hostages. Now that we are aware that they might want to use the plane itself as a weapon, the response patterns of both hostages and authorities have changed accordingly.

My solution would have saved Europe half a billion dollars within the past month alone. Now convince me that the terrorist attacks which those measures supposedly prevented would have done more damage in that time. But that's going to be impossible for you to do, since the details aren't being released to the public and we're just supposed to take it on faith.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Tokorona »

.. The FBI also fires people who work hard. The chance of me believing them falls to zero. Dead serious. Since, however, you ignored my points, I went and looked it up. Now, here we go. While most in the US are not Muslim (so I was wrong there, that was interesting in itself.) .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_hijacking#List_of_well-known_hijackings

The results: 15 Arabic Terrorism, 1 Israli, 1 Cuban, 1 Soviet, 3 American, 5 by ???, 1 GErman, 1 Serbian, 1 French, 1 Sri Lanka, 2 Sikh (seper. India), 1 GErogian, 1 Pakistani, 1 Iran, 1 Afganistan. The highest result is quite obviously Arabic Terrorism.

So, yeah. Highest number, AND it's happened before. Amazing.
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Tokorona »


Yeah, I gots a solution:

QUIT SCREENING PEOPLE BEFORE THEY GET ON AIRPLANES. DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND QUIT WASTING MY TIME AND TAX DOLLARS!


... I'm not even going to explain why letting people with knives on a plane is bad for hte people on the plane. While I agree they probably wouldn't manage to pull off a damage hit.. it's not exactly JUST for the people off the plane.
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by MrWaeseL »

People can get on trains with knives just fine, though.
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Tokorona »

I suppose. Mind you, I operate from a security perspective, it's much better safe than sorry, and my points reflect it. While I agree people shouldn't be stopped from carrying blades on a plane, the flip side is that it could be a very bad thing.
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Crissa »

Uhh, you count a list that says it isn't comprehensive, and only 'well known' if listed at all...

I shouldn't have to point out the myriad of problems with your 'list'.

...Or the problem with defining knives and any sort of mass transit. Are you going to pat down people getting on buses, trains, and hired cars now? As long as you are afraid, no weapon or bomb is even needed to inspire more costs and terror.

-Crissa
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Tokorona »

Meh. I'll concede the list is nowhere near comprehensive, but it was really all I could find that said anything either way, since rereading the FBI reports simply said the majority of terrorist attacks don't occur on US soil.
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Crissa »

And on US soil?

Were many of them done by non-whites?

No?

Don't want to mention that?

-Crissa
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Re: Screaming "Buyer!" in a crowded theater.

Post by Tokorona »

Mind a) backing that up and b) explaning how the terrorist attacks on US soil were related to airplane security?
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