Primaries and Party Affiliation

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Primaries and Party Affiliation

Post by User3 »

Mod Edit: Stuff unrelated to this topic deleted.

Sorry about not signing in, I'm working as an election clerk today.

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Post by Draco_Argentum »

Does the chad hang?
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Post by Username17 »

Draco_Argentum at [unixtime wrote:1149635714[/unixtime]]Does the chad hang?


Not in my precinct. We accounted for every ballot, assigned every one for appropriate counting mechanisms, and had a relatively simple electoral procedure.

On a side note: you can spot all the Republicans by the fact that you get the feeling that each and every one is a total cock before they even open their mouth. It's weird, but the fact that the primary system requires everyone to identify their party affiliation (a terrible idea, btw) means that you actually get independent verification that Republicans aren't nice people. Weird but true.

It's especially odd because you're working as an election clerk, so you're still honor bound to treat every one of them with courtesy, respect, and annonymity. I have no idea why they are required to tell you what party they are affiliated with - that's just a tool for the unscrupulous to use voter intimidation as far as I can tell.

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Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

You're in California, right?

If so, I'd imagine republicans would have a chip on their shoulder, considering that they have to identify themselves to people that would most likely beat them to death with tofu dogs, or whatever.

See, where I live, it's the Democrats that tend to be ready to fight, sicne they are hugely outnumbered in this state. (Virginia, for the record. Home of both the NRA and Jerry Falwell's multi-million dollar church.)

I still remember the stares I got in 2004 at the polling place when my wife loudly proclaimed that W. was a psycho, and we were doing our part to put him out of office. Meaningless since over 80% of the votes in my state went to Bush. But that would get into my opinions on the Electoral college, and that's another can of worms.
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Post by Username17 »

Not an unreasonable hypothesis, and certainly the Republicans aren't the only guys who give out a bad vibe. The American Independent Party's members are identifiable a priori as well (they're the guys you suspect of having a gun in the car). And there are some Democrats who give off a weird and unpleasant vibe as well.

But even the Republicans who are being nice, are being nice in the way that the Church Lady is nice. All fake smiles and barbs. It's freaky. And this is the impression you get before you even ask them to verify their party - by the end of the 14 hours the polls were open I was just punching out the appropriate party before they even got to the front of the line.

On a side note, the party affiliation is supposed to be secret, so you'd ask people to point to the appropriate party, or confirm what the book said about their registration, or whatever, and almost everyone would just say it out loud.

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Post by User3 »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1149696560[/unixtime]]The American Independent Party's members ...


The who?
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Post by Crissa »

There really is an Independent Party and a Libertarian Party... You should know these things.

Anyhow, the Republicans are really strange. They're the people who won't let you walk on that path they paved by their lawn or pay for the potholes in the street. They're the same ones who get mad at you for crossing the public park at night (because it's closed) and ask you to walk in the unlit city street instead.

The party platform in California is one of, 'I have mine, you don't get any.'

So yeah, it's scary that after a little bit you can just tell after a couple moments with them.

Oh! In California, we have to declare party affiliation during Primaries because of The Right of Assembly; in other words, people get to choose who they affiliate with, and so the parties sued the state when open primaries were passed into law, saying this violated their right to choose their own members and officials.

...Which is kinda ironic, since you just declare whatever party you want to vote, and can switch (nearly) whenever you want.

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Post by Draco_Argentum »

So the primaries are a vote about who is a candidate in the actual election?

I have to agree about the party affiliation thing, makes no sense in a secret ballot. What about the people who don't have a party btw?
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Post by Modesitt »

So the primaries are a vote about who is a candidate in the actual election?

Yes.
What about the people who don't have a party btw?

Depends on your state. Some states don't let you vote in any primary other than the ones for your particular party. Others let anyone vote in any primary. The results of open primaries can be rather entertaining. If I'm voting as a Republican, it's in my best interests to vote for the Democratic canidate I consider most likely to FAIL. I believe this is what happened in Alabama where a neo-nazi Democratic canidate for Attorney General named Larry Darby received 43.53% of the vote.
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Post by Username17 »

In California, if you mark "Decline to State" on Party Affiliation, you are allowed to have a special DTS ballot from one of the three parties that allows you to fill one out for their party (Democrats, Republicans, and American Independents - you can't vote for a Green, Peace and Freedom, or Natural Law candidate if you are a non-partisan voter). The thing is, the DTS are counted separately, and technically Primaries aren't binding in Presidential Elections.

So while you can influence who is running for Governor, for example, your vote for President doesn't count if you aren't affiliated with the political party in question. You can cast a vote, but the Democrat or Republican Parties won't take it into consideration when they choose their candidate at the convention.

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Post by Draco_Argentum »

Thats pretty weird, its like it was designed for stupid.
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Post by Absentminded_Wizard »

How much the primary votes "count" for the presidential nomination also varies by states. In some states, delegate seats are assigned to people pledged to the candidates based on their percentage of the primary vote. In others, the voters aren't electing any delegates and the vote is only advisory. Some states combine a little of both systems.

Part of the fun of living in a federal nation is that so much can change depending on your state.
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Post by Username17 »

Draco_Argentum at [unixtime wrote:1149848372[/unixtime]]Thats pretty weird, its like it was designed for stupid.


It's the best the 1700s had to offer. :wtf:

Sadly, the American Political system was actually designed to disenfranchize people, and it works. The original concept was that aristocrats were going to have control of the balance of power, but in modern America the people are just out in the cold and it is corporate entities that take up the power vaccuum.

Two parties and one representative from each running against one another for each seat in government means that only minimal differences in policy need be vident between candidates to create controversy and election decisions. That means that it is to the advantage of both candidates to define themselves as closely to the other guy as possible, and the line that differentiates them is essentially set by whoever can put the biggest pile of money on the table.

It's a really shitty system, and it can't last forever. But it has lasted longer than any other system on the planet (except the UK, which beat us out by a few years). The signs of collapse are everywhere, I figure when the empire abroad goes down, the internal political machine will also come to a screeching halt.

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Post by User3 »

It's a really shitty system, and it can't last forever. But it has lasted longer than any other system on the planet (except the UK, which beat us out by a few years). The signs of collapse are everywhere, I figure when the empire abroad goes down, the internal political machine will also come to a screeching halt.


Such as?

Not that I don't believe you-the fact that the modern Democratic and Republican parties and their politics/platform pretty much goes against at least two major positions of the people they represent is ample proof.

Such as the GOP deciding to invade Iraq while simultaneously pushing for tax cuts. The only way the supporters could be for this sort of idiocy if they were grossly misinformed of their representatives intentions or the consequences of the supported policy. What the hell, man?
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Post by User3 »

Also: flag burning.

You stupid, easily mislead sheeple. How the fuck can you idiots even hold a job? I mean, even the people who work at McDonalds need to have an iota of attention span not to be distracted by shiny stuff on the wall or they'll fry their hand off.

I mean, lack of health care and an administration that seems hellbent on endangering the US for profit are huge concerns but you pea-brained dumbasses can vote for those things so a piece of cloth won't get burned? What the hell, man?
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Post by Crissa »

People don't care about consequences, that's beyond the average American intelligence. They just want simple things.

They are misinformed, especially Republicans. Don't you remember the survey of voters matching the positions of the two parties, the two candidates in the last presidential election?

Republicans chose the opposite from their candidates' actual position more than half the time!

And the issues on the platforms? Yes, they're different.

But Democracy only works on consensus. Those who hold positions wildly from a perceived center? They're not going to be able to do anything. Just like the Republicans with their current votes - they're failing because their actual positions are too far from the actual center.

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Post by Username17 »

It's not just that the more you watch FOX News, the less you know. That's a big part of it, but the last two presidential elections were farces even within the context of our archaic and unfair electoral system. Less than half of people surveyed believe that the votes were counted fairly and accurately in the 2004 election, which is unsurprising because they weren't.

Other countries smell blood, and they're lining themselves up to be important in the post-American hegemony. Do you honestly think that the current line of circuses and warfare can keep the populace in line once the other nations stop paying tribute or taking our military seriously?

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Post by User3 »

Other countries smell blood, and they're lining themselves up to be important in the post-American hegemony. Do you honestly think that the current line of circuses and warfare can keep the populace in line once the other nations stop paying tribute or taking our military seriously?


I don't give a shit, the military-industry alliance needs to go down. Give me some of my money back.

This is changing the subject, but between second and first world countries is there even a need for empire building and conquering anymore? Europe's quality of life went up after the dissolution of their empires and income inequality became higher in this country after the biggest period of military expansion--the 70's and 80's. The only resource I see worth pissing off your people and the people of other countries with violence is water. You need that.

Except for the usual parade of jingoists who would be butt hurt if we lost some imaginary military capability (and pride), what exactly do we stand to lose from hugely dismantling our army?
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Post by Username17 »

Except for the usual parade of jingoists who would be butt hurt if we lost some imaginary military capability (and pride), what exactly do we stand to lose from hugely dismantling our army?


By itself, nothing. Our country is not being made stronger with our military adventures, it's actually just taking our resources and setting them on fire while pissing off the entire planet.

But it is pissing off the whole planet. The whole planet is pissed now. If our military just up and went away, a lot of countries would want their stuff back. Like when the Italians lost their empire and a lot of Ethiopeans stabbed them in the face, only this is the 21st century and face-stabbing is global now. The US won the whole superpower sumo-fight with the Soviet Union - and the winner apparently gets the reward that everyone in the whole world finds out what a total cock you had to be to win that fight and they don't like oyu now.

The problem is that militarism is like heroin, it's bad for you and it's bad for the nation. But it also causes potentially lethal withdrawal symptoms when you stop doing it. There is a very real possibility that when the US goes down, it will go down like Carthage. I don't want that to happen, because I live here, but it seems like it's going to take a fair amount of diplomacy to extricate the nation from the hill of fire ants that it has put its body into.

And I really don't trust this administration to do anything about that.

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Post by User3 »

But they have to do something eventually; otherwise the people who supported your dumb ass wil be shocked and angered to find out that they liked safety and money and the ability to go after real bad guys rather than taking out imaginary ones.

I mean, the people who support neoconservatism aren't going to be able to stay being blind when they find out that their leaders caused them to be humiliated like Vietnam 2--and that will probably mean the end of their power base so I don't why they just don't cut their losses and run...
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Post by Draco_Argentum »

Having the biggest stick is always a good thing. At least then you can gaurentee someone else dosen't have a bigger stick to beat you with. As long as there are people willing to take your stuff by force you need more force than them.
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Post by Hey_I_Can_Chan »

Off-topic, Sort Of:
Frank wrote:The US won the whole superpower sumo-fight with the Soviet Union…"
Good heavens, was that a Frankie Goes to Hollywood reference?
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Post by Crissa »

Yeah, the reward for winning the fight with the Soviet Union means that even if more bombs go off in Moscow than Washington - it's our flag they burn and our way of life they vilify.

That seems rather a poor reward, having random tall buildings demolished without emptying them of people first.

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Post by Draco_Argentum »

On the plus side the life expectancy in the US beats the former USSR's.
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Post by Username17 »

Well, Russia made its own bad life choices. If you privatize a nominally communist economy all at once, bad things happen. I'm not just saying that because I am myself a communist and feel that moving sections of your economy from state-run to corporate run is a bad move. I am, but let's think common sense here:

  1. On day X, it is illegal to have more than a certain amount of money.
  2. On day X+1, you sell the government to the highest bidder.


What did they think was going to happen? They transferred their entire economy and social safety network into the hands of criminals, by definition. It's one of those "Whatever your politics are, this is a shit idea" moments.

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