End of The World

[Crissa]

Since end of the world subjects have become popular again - after being out of style since the Cold War - I've run into a few on cable, and seen how terrible their production values have been.

While I don't really ponder why these are popular, since it's a simple answer that the Christian community in the US has become more and more Dominionist... And I don't really enjoy the religious overtones...

...I keep thinking, 'Gosh, that'd make a great game.'

Of course, when I go to the game store, I'm faced with rehashing of the same thing over and over again, be it video games or RPGs. We've got Bully coming out this year, and it seems the freshest thing. Sim-everything next year... That might be fun, but. Heck, religious overtones make games more interesting to me, not less.

This movie, Supernova makes nearly no sense, but I guess I demand less in a game than a movie. It'd make a great game, with the world disintegrating and the secret movers behind the governments scramblings to stock their secret bases and grab the scientists to save the world.

This aired on Monday on the Hallmark channel - it's the thrice rebranded Pax cable channel.

-Crissa

[Neeek]

Ah yes, Supernova...

I never bothered to see it, but a friend of mine tells me that he learned three very important things from that movie:

1) Never have sex in hyperspace.
2) Never have sex with an alien artifact
3) ...I can't recall what the third one was, but it probably had to do with sex.

[Sir Neil]

The only end of the world game I've heard of is Palladium's Chaos Earth.

http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/v ... hp?t=24723

[Crissa]

1125993374[/unixtime]]Ah yes, Supernova...

I never bothered to see it, but a friend of mine tells me that he learned three very important things from that movie:

1) Never have sex in hyperspace.
2) Never have sex with an alien artifact
3) ...I can't recall what the third one was, but it probably had to do with sex.

Wrong movie.

-Crissa

[PhoneLobster]

Actually I've long since been obsessed with running my own post apocalyptic game setting with lots of religious overtones.

Because I find the "dominionist", lets bring on the apocalypse, anti science, turn back the clock on all forms of human elightenment types a fascinating and frightening force.

Imagining a time in which they went to war with the world, won and controlled everything for a heck of a long time creates an angst filled setting full of all kinds of potential conflicts and dramas that I think would make for an excellent dark and deadly game setting.

I don't know if there are many "in the middle of the world ending" settings out there (aren't they all like that when the mission is "save the world"?) but there have certainly been some post apocalyptic ones.

A few big name or recent PC games...
Deus Ex 2
Fall out
UFO Aftermath
... maybe half of all other sci fi computer games ever...

Even pen and paper RPGs do it,
like for instance Macho Women with Guns

I really must get that game one day, just for the bragging rights.

[MrWaeseL]

Are you looking for a postapocalyptic or apocalyptic scenario? Because, belonging in the latter category, The Apocalypse Stone is supposedly pretty good.

[fbmf]

If you mean the end-of-2E scenario, I've read it and it sucks on its own, but it has some good ideas that you could adapt for an end of the world type adventure or game.

Game On,
fbmf

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I've read D20 apocalypse. It actually looked fairly neat from a creative point of view, I'm not sure how it runs rules-wise.

Sorry I don't have a more detailed analysis, it takes me a while to get a handle for the rules.

[Crissa]

Well, GURPS Y2K has several interesting scenarios...

...But no, apocalyptic, not post. There's lost of games that are post, probably even most. Heck, even WoW is post-post-post apocalypse.

But as I mentioned in the original post, I was watching/reading materials which were influenced by the fatalistic Dominionist ideas which have become vogue lately.

Does that seem clear now? *confused*

-Crissa

[Josh_Kablack]

No, actually it stil isn't quite clear to me.

You seem to be alluding to roleplaying in the Left behind series or something like it, where the events of the Book of Revealations are occuring throughout the campaign....I get that much. But I'm not quite sure about how in-depth you want to go, how bible-specific, how pro/anti christian you want it to be or other details.

Here are a few ideas for pseudo-modern settings (D20 Modern, Feng Shui, Superheros) and campaigns based around the ideas in christian apocolyptic myth:

1. (a little late now) The Branch Davidians were right, David Koresh was a prophet of god and his theological insight tying the time references in the Book of Daniel to the Book of Revealations were key theological insights. When the 1000 day prophecy is fulfilled, humanity may very well reach
Final Light. This campaign starts shortly after the Waco siege and ends one way or the other 1,000 days after Koresh was killed.

2. In the tradition of apocolyptic literature, new scrolls are "found" in Israel/Canann which accurately, if metaphorically describe the fall of the Berlin Wall, the fall of the Twin Towers, and other recent events. Then these scrolls moves right into restatements of the four horsemen of the apocolypse which can be interpreted to say that the current mideast/isreal situation is the domain of war, the aftermath of Katrina results in widespread famine, a new and improved SARS/West Nile/Bird Flu is the coming of pestilence and then death (as in of the enitre human race) will follow. The PCs are tasked to debunk these scrolls as another apocolyptic hoax perpetrated by a particular religious faction, but should end up directly confronting each of these variant current crisis and realizing that it's only the timeframe that's wrong in predictions of the end of the world.

3. Belief is magic, prophecy is inherently self-fulfiling. A christian subset of your choice gets to be the villan this time (Roman Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses are popular villans, but Branch Davidians and the Amish are less likely to be offended) as they begin returning to the early christian ideals that judgement day is not in the distant future, but is happening in their lifetime, perhaps next tuesday. With a couple charismatic televangelists and bestselling thrillers they gain an improbably widespread following. Their message of "Be ready at all times" results in widespread abandonment of material wealth and longstanding interpersonal attachments and the possible disintegration of the modern American social fabric. PCs get to play adherents of other christian denominations (with possibly a rabbi thrown in) who begin by each trying to repair the social fabric in their own way and end up having to counteract this teaching within the confines of their own faiths.

4. The Bible Codes are false, but meaningfully so. Since the devil can quote scripture for his own purposes, he is quoting scripture in a precisely engineered piecemiel to bring about faith in the Beast of Revealations 13. The PCs are staunch <insert good denomination here> theologians who have to debunk this statistically irrelevant nonsense in a way that makes good sound bites while being beset by the forces of Satan. In the campain all but one of the PCs will die. The survivor will then win the theological debate and the adoration of the saved masses who convert to the PC denomination in droves. And then realize that his own name is numerologically 666 and he himself is the beast prophesized.

[Crissa]

1126287882[/unixtime]]No, actually it stil isn't quite clear to me.

You seem to be alluding to roleplaying in the Left behind series or something like it, where the events of the Book of Revealations are occuring throughout the campaign....I get that much. But I'm not quite sure about how in-depth you want to go, how bible-specific, how pro/anti christian you want it to be or other details.

Well... I was trying to avoid that particular series; but Dominionists are real, and they really do things which are bad decisions in the face of disaster: Iraq, Hurricane Katrina, etc.

So I was just making wishful thinking of a disaster epic - the disaster is really unavoidable - and playing a campaign in the situation.

This sort of situation just happens to be popular with Domionists, hence bad movies and series like Supernova and Left Behind being popular right now. It's sort of a phase. We can hope.

Still confused?

-Crissa

[Josh_Kablack]

Define "Domionist" clearly and I'll be less so.

[dbb]

I am no more clear on the exact feel you're searching for than is Josh, but I can think of several apocalyptic games with strong religious overtones:

Armageddon: Angels, demons, reincarnated demigods, Atlantean immortals and ordinary guys with magic and/or Really Big Guns team up to fight Cthulhoid horrors who serve an apocalyptic religious cult that started World War III.

The End: The biblical apocalypse has arrived. And then gone again. You play The Meek, having inherited the Earth -- which ends up looking something like, to quote the guy whose review I read, "Libertarian fantasyland with Magic".

Heresy: This was a flash-in-the-pan CCG published by Last Unicorn (the Dune and Aria people) back in the days of CCG-mania. Cyberpunk angels and demons struggle over the smoking ruins of a destroyed Earth, with really nice art.

Warhammer: If you want to stretch the point. The default Warhammer "Old World" setting is extremely apocalyptic: the minions of the Chaos Gods are coming, they're already at your borders and infiltrating themselves into your society, and the best you can hope to do is slow them down.

--d.

[Crissa]

See, this is why I didn't want to mention the Dominionists. Now all your suggestions are angels demons junk.

Look, the Dominionists are just why disaster flicks are popular right now. Not that I want to reward them with angels and demons junk!

Dominionists believe the bible is literally true, and that God is coming to take dominion over the world, and all the nonbelievers will perish. They take different forms, from Jehovah's Witnesses who refuse to lift a finger in this world to Pat Robertson and George W Bush who work specifically to bring it to fruition. They don't believe in a future, they believe in Dominion, hence Dominionist. Most Born Again, Evangelical, Christians are Dominionist.

*grumble*

-Crissa

[dbb]

I must be slow today, but I still don't quite understand what kind of game you want to do, beyond that you really, really don't like Christian Fundamentalists.

You want to do a game with heavy Biblical and religious overtones, but without overtly fantastic elements? Like a Delta Green game except with apocalyptic Christian cultists replacing the Cthulhu cultists, maybe? X-Files, but with Christians instead of aliens?

--d.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

If you didn't want angels and demons, you should have said "I don't want angels and demons" instead of usind a word none of us in this thread has even heard of.

As far as anyone here is concerned, you might as well have been saying "I want an adventure, but no chuzz-wuzzers!"

You are right, you shouldn't have mentioned "Dominionist", or any of the other words you've made up for things you don't like. (After reading your description, I'm interpreting "dominionist" to have a similiar meaning as Mod Edit or Mod Edit, as it seems to be a hate term when you use it.)

[dbb]

Here's two more ideas off the top of my head:

* Delta Green rules, In Nomine setting with one important difference: all this business about demons and angels and a war between archangels is a mass delusion, fostered by unscrupulous cults/greedy plutocrats marketing dangerous drugs/secret government mind control projects/oil companies/whoever. Although the so-called "demons" and "angels" and their "human" minions have no (at least, no quantifiable) supernatural powers whatsoever, they're still incredibly dangerous due to the strength and shared nature of their delusion, and can do a lot of damage if not carefully watched out for. The PCs are a group of right-minded people out to do just that.

* Delta Green rules, homebrew setting. The PCs are a group of delusional vigilantes convinced that something like the above (they're the last line of defense between religious nuts and their goals) is the case, when in fact there's no such conspiracy and their missions are being funded (and directed) by some sinister group. They start out firmly convinced that they're really doing good work (this part shouldn't be hard), and only gradually do they come to learn that they've been killing and imprisoning innocent people, and must try to undo some of the damage they've done.

--d.

[Modesitt]

You are right, you shouldn't have mentioned "Dominionist", or any of the other words you've made up for things you don't like. (After reading your description, I'm interpreting "dominionist" to have a similiar meaning as "Spick" or "nigg*er", as it seems to be a hate term when you use it. )

That'd be nice if your attack was true. Dominionism is not exactly a bit of esoterica. It's a moderately well known term that I've seen used in many different contexts. Google coughs up 57,300 hits for it.

Edit: Fixed typo.

[Josh_Kablack]

Google also coughs up 14 hits for "chuzz-wuzzers"

So, um anyone up for a setting about australian fantasy football leagues being infiltrated by angels and demons and the exploding toads which result?

[Count Arioch the 28th]

1126398769[/unixtime]][

That'd be nice if your attack was true. Dominionism is not exactly a bit of esoterica. It's a moderately well known term that I've seen used in many different contexts. Google coughs up 57,300 hits for it.

Edit: Fixed typo.

And I just got 3,910,000 google hits on "My huge wang".

Sorry, dude. I stand by my point that it's a term that no one's heard of, and that Crissa is using it as hate speech.

[power_word_wedgie]

1126403537[/unixtime]]
And I just got 3,910,000 google hits on "My huge wang".

That reminds me - I've got to update my website.

As for apocolyptic settings, really this in one of the "real-life" settings that interest me. I just don't get too much into vampire/werewolves in current setting and future setting plot always have me questioning, "Why doesn't the Empire just blow the hell out of the planet."

Now, when I'm thinking about apocolyptic setting, I'm thinking about a gaming world after World War III. Thus, I'm figuring that there is life, but civilization is pretty much wasted. In that kind of setting, adventure is the name of the game. In my mind, I'm thinking "Road Warrior", Tom Petty "You Got Lucky" music videos, and "Thundarr the Barbarin" worlds - somewhat similar to Gamma World.

[PhoneLobster]

I stand by my point that it's a term that no one's heard of, and that Crissa is using it as hate speech.

Your own ignorance of a term is no basis on which to declare it made up.

Dominionist is a term I have heard before in the same context Crissa is using it. Its a real theological thing.

Its not precisely a hate term either, there are people out there who would regard it as a GOOD thing, mind you a lot of those people aren't precisely up on studying variations on religion and the names there of, but once you explained it to them I'm sure they would happily declare "why yes, thats us, may we be raptured right out of our small pants any second"

ANYWAY...

If Crissa wants to run a cool apocalyptic/post apocalyptic setting and is really really sick of the whole religiously themed apocalpses...

Then I suggest again, make cause and nature of the destruction be the religion itself. There are no angels or demons or prophecies come true but there IS a collapse of the world wide social and economic fabric as the poor and disenfranchised, perhaps spurred by a major economic, military or environmental disaster that forms the last straw on the back of grinding poverty and exploitation tear down civilisation.

In the past when a civilization collapses and turns on itself the angry starving masses burn down the palaces and the temples. But in modern society perhaps the temples that get burnt will be wall street and the banks, and in the process institutions of democratic government, universities, schools and labs might get caught up. And if these places were being burnt there is one group that would be at the fore front of the burning, remembering a time before the enlightenment, when they ruled all of the known world and the sun orbitted the earth.

Religion some how steps in to fill the gap and take control, turning its followers against witches (scientists and teachers), heretics (followers of alternate political theories to theocracy), and heathens (all those who aren't of the faith, whatever it may be). This is threatening to create (or has long since created) a genuine all new dark ages.

The important thing is that there are no actual supernatural evens or elements to the situation. The threat is religious fanaticism, on their side they don't have god or angels or prophecy, they have surprise, and fear, and ruthlessness and a fanatical devotion to the pope, and...

Players can be secretly heretical priests questioning their church's lack of compassion, oppressed masses struggling to survive a totalitarian theocracy or brave freedom fighters (and thus heretics and rebels) seeking to prevent total theocracy, or topple the theocrats, end the dark ages or bring about a second elightenment.

Put it in the future or near future and throw in a whole lot of science fiction gadgets and technologies of the kind which would really freak people out and perhaps help polarise a sort of enlightened renaissance man vs supertistious fearful peasant situation.

Autonomous robots, genetic mutants, clones, immortality treatments, full body cyborgs, devestating energy weapons, anti gravity, all these kinds of funky sci fi concepts could easily be percieved as witchery, and dark frightening necromancy with the right kind of encouragement, or tools for human advancement, or best of all for a setting like this, both, depending on your faction. You know, the whole Dr Fankenstein thing.

Anyway just think of it like this "The Pope/Prophet/Second Coming of Jesus commands you burn the witch, the socialist, the scientist, the heretic, the democrat and the heathen! Destroy their works and remake the world with faith in god ascendant over such heinous terms as reason and rationality!"

EDIT: I can't believe I left the R out of Frankenstein. I'm leaving it like that now for comic relief.

[dbb]

1126408021[/unixtime]]
Now, when I'm thinking about apocolyptic setting, I'm thinking about a gaming world after World War III. Thus, I'm figuring that there is life, but civilization is pretty much wasted. In that kind of setting, adventure is the name of the game. In my mind, I'm thinking "Road Warrior", Tom Petty "You Got Lucky" music videos, and "Thundarr the Barbarin" worlds - somewhat similar to Gamma World.

My understanding is that that setting is kind of what "The End" is like. It doesn't really seem to have demons or angels or alien monsters or really high-powered magic -- just a world where everything pretty much is broken down and decaying and survival is a constant struggle, etc.

About the whole "Dominionist" thing:

I'm sure people do use it as a positive term sometimes; still, the first page of hits I get from Yahoo! includes stuff such as "Dominionist Dementia", "Dominionist Neofascist Cult", "George Bush's Messianic Complex" and "The Despoiling of America". This suggests that it's mostly not used in a complimentary term.

Still, "hate speech" is itself strong words. I guess the key question for me is: am I doing it because it's a cool setting, or am I doing it because I don't like Christians? Would I be OK with a game portraying a different group of people in the way I'm portraying Christians here?

Would I be okay with a game where Islamic radicals managed to seize control of a major nuclear weapons stockpile and forced the rest of the world to accept sharia at gunpoint, and the players are brave rebels against this new order? Would I be okay with a game where, say, Zionist agents managed to seize control of the United States to submit it to control of Israel and disaster resulted? Or if it were Communists who seized control and wound up launching a war on the non-Communist rest of the world to spread the revolution?

If you're saying, "Now, wait a minute, real (Muslims, Jews, Communists) don't want to do that stuff; you're spreading intolerance by portraying them that way" -- then I would be very very leery of doing this kind of a Christian apocalypse game. If you're saying "Actually, those all sound kind of cool" -- go nuts. It would probably be a really good idea to make sure all the players feel the same way, though.

--d.

[dbb]

In fact, not to be sarcastic, but the setting PL is proposing sounds a lot like the old 1980s RPG "The Price of Freedom", where Russian Commies (grr, snarl!) have occupied America (boo, hiss!) and you play members of the brave American resistance forces (yay!) in their desperate struggle against the Iron Fist of the Red Invaders (rarr, snap!) -- except with all instances of "Russian Commies" replaced with "Christian Fundies". Make of that what you will, I guess.

--d.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

1126442112[/unixtime]]

I stand by my point that it's a term that no one's heard of, and that Crissa is using it as hate speech.

Your own ignorance of a term is no basis on which to declare it made up.

Dominionist is a term I have heard before in the same context Crissa is using it. Its a real theological thing.

Its not precisely a hate term either, there are people out there who would regard it as a GOOD thing, mind you a lot of those people aren't precisely up on studying variations on religion and the names there of, but once you explained it to them I'm sure they would happily declare "why yes, thats us, may we be raptured right out of our small pants any second"

And I still stand by the fact that more people are talking abiout my huge wang than dominionism right now.